Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Not a realistic scenario, and thus a flawed question. I don't know about other countries, but the US doesn't "force" people to go to war. The last draft ended in 1973, I believe, and even under the terms of that draft, people weren't forced into combat roles, generally. You can ALWAYS serve your country without killing, and thus without violating the Buddhist precepts. I served in the Airborne Infantry for six years and never once encountered a situation wherein I was called upon to kill. Actual military service isn't a Hollywood movie; it's not about killing people. In war, of course, killing does occur. However, imagine how much more cooking occurs than killing, even during wartime. How much more laundry or mail service. Freight delivery or motor repair. There are tons of ways to serve, if called upon, that won't require killing.
US has tons of money and manpower, US can use it skilfully to donate in kind, and muster the manpower to help devastating countries to built a country of peace, bliss and joys like another greenery land on earth. And the draft ought not to interfere their domestic development but just a supportive elements to augment manpower and money in peaceful development of infrastructure and upgrading, so that the other part of the world has another green land to tour around and interact :thumbsup:
In war, of course, killing does occur. However, imagine how much more cooking occurs than killing, even during wartime. How much more laundry or mail service. Freight delivery or motor repair. There are tons of ways to serve, if called upon, that won't require killing.
Don't all of these things support the killing?
If I earn my living making bombs, can I say I have nothing to do with the maiming and killing? If I deliver the freight to the planes, or fix the motors in the tanks, can I say I have nothing to do with the death and destruction? Whenever I give any logistical support, am I not part of the killing and maiming of mostly poor people (men, women, and children) who have done nothing wrong?
If I shut off my mind and just follow orders, does that absolve me?
What if I won't or can't shut off my mind? What should I do then?
If I earn my living making bombs, can I say I have nothing to do with the maiming and killing?
Would you blame Alfred Nobel for the deaths of millions all over the world, because of the use of TNT?
If I deliver the freight to the planes, or fix the motors in the tanks, can I say I have nothing to do with the death and destruction?
You are a deliveryman or a mechanic. That is all. You think of your doing your best in what you do, not what people do with the things you deliver or repair. If you are delivering a set of gourmet steak knives to a friendly old woman, and she uses them to kill someone or some cats or other animals, are you going to blame yourself for delivering the knives to her?
Whenever I give any logistical support, am I not part of the killing and maiming of mostly poor people (men, women, and children) who have done nothing wrong?
If I shut off my mind and just follow orders, does that absolve me?
What if I won't or can't shut off my mind? What should I do then?
If we look at the Mahayana sutras, especially that which relate to Ksitigarbha, he remains in the Hell realms to teach the teachings of the Buddha to those who are reborn and tortured there. And to alleviate their suffering. He would help their wounds heal, offer food and drink, clean up their wounds, and so on. Does that mean he condones the acts of torture?
Sometimes methinks that, being the products of Western education, we tend to over-think things. Case-in-point: vegetarianism. We are so caught up at the 4th, 5th, 6th, etc., levels of our actions that we often forget that sometimes we need to think of the consequences to our own selves. We cannot help others if we are injured seriously. We can definitely spread the message of non-violence better in we were drafted and requested for non-violent vocations like cleaning, cooking, administration, etc. Most often it's not a good idea to dodge the draft because it would be recorded federally that you are a deserter.
If you escape to another country, what are the repercussions to our family? You might never see them again. Ever thought of their suffering? How about the difficulties you might face later when everything is over? What are the legal implications?
Thank you for these questions. I'm not much of a computer guy and don't yet know the way to blend someone's post with my responce, like I see others do. And typing is painfuly slow for me. I'll do my best to answer.
"Would you blame Alfred Nobel for the deaths of millions all over the world, because of the use of TNT?"
Kind of. He did intend/convert its use as/to weapons, correct?
"... If you are delivering a set of gourmet steak knives to a friendly old woman, and she uses them to kill someone or some cats or other animals, are you going to blame yourself for delivering the knives to her?"
No. The knives were not intended as murder weapons.
"If we look at the Mahayana sutras, especially that which relate to Ksitigarbha, he remains in the Hell realms to teach the teachings of the Buddha to those who are reborn and tortured there. And to alleviate their suffering. He would help their wounds heal, offer food and drink, clean up their wounds, and so on. Does that mean he condones the acts of torture?"
No. Is he helping the torturer or the victim?
"We can definitely spread the message of non-violence better in we were drafted and requested for non-violent vocations like cleaning, cooking, administration, etc."
I don't believe I can spread Peace by being part of the war machine. I will try to spread Peace to the folks in prison with me.
"Most often it's not a good idea to dodge the draft because it would be recorded federally that you are a deserter."
OH, I wouldn't be "dodging," I'd be openly resisting. If the federal government holds Peaceful non-cooperation against people - and they do - then that is not a goverment worth defending.
"If you escape to another country, what are the repercussions to our family? You might never see them again. Ever thought of their suffering?"
I like what Thoreau said when someone said, “Henry why are you in jail?” He said, Why are you not in jail?”
"How about the difficulties you might face later when everything is over?"
Maybe, when its over things will be better.
"What are the legal implications?"
I refuse to put legal concerns above moral concerns.
No subject of academic profession in the secular education of the world such as maths, science, economy, literature providing that services to bomb a country. These education is to build a civilized society and facilitate ease to aiding patients and enjoyment in view of diverse karmic consequences. Earth is bestowed of sufficient resource to work on everlasting bliss, but leaders exploit the convenient of by converting money into bomb and murder people of other nation and other beings on earth. They are extreme high academic scholars, worst than an illiterate mother do cooking at home
You see, if the leaders, diplomats, armed forces generals would to know and understand and learn religions, there would never be war. For instance, Islam most controversial perspective is holy war or Jihad, it implies the jihad of self anger and discrimination away from love; while Jesus spoken the same perspective of love in all humanity such as God creates the world, literally and pragmatically speaking, the world is God in itself, how would God damage God unless it's selfish desire on materialistic, fame and power driven due to jealousy and staunch possession etc. In the understanding of world and religions from the perspective of Buddhism study. So, before the war decision is made, those supporting elements must "vote" him down or ignore him, because starting a war will bring devastating aftermath to its own citizen as it's historically proven fact. Anyway, a peaceful citizen never engage war and no war in the mind, this is the price of pureland that you wanna earn it. Henceforth, it is a must that leader to acquire pureland.
What would happen if you removed a billion dollar industry from a weak economy? What happened to Russia after the cold war?
We're really not talking about war, we're talking about the fluidity of pieces of paper that we use to assess worth. The moral aspect of war in this day and age is a symptomatic response to a much more poignant aspect of denial..... Money! I really do appreciate the fervor concerning the moralistic personal view, unknowingly however, it brings in an aspect of ego. You can't simply remove war from this infrastructure, you have to ween a system like this off of it or change the system entirely. With this knowledge, what impact does a centered moral view alone offer? This is the detachment within belief..... I have the moralistic high ground, therefore everything else is wrong; it says nothing and makes no advance towards growth within the system we were all born in to. Do we adhere to a moralistic view if it means that we discard mindfulness?
If you could make all the decisions right now and removed all the soldiers and tossed them back into the economy, what do you think would happen?
It's not about ending war, it's about creating an infrastructure where war is an impossibility; what reason is there for war when every aspect of your life is fulfilled? The Buddhist ideal is not enough, look around you! If it was, it would have already created an infrastructure that is so beyond the one we have now, there would be absolutely no reason to hold on to it. Knowledge requires a physical, tangible example...... Passivity in thought does not supply this... If everyone thought as I do is not working; at some point you have to utilize thought and create.
The passive nature within the teachings of Buddha was in response, where physically overcoming the ills within life was impossible. There was no freedom in thought as it applied to changing an infrastructure, it was hierarchal rule. Anything that questioned this was destroyed, what can be destroyed when it becomes a growth of the personal mind? It does not speak directly towards change within the hierarchal rule, it asks for introspection towards the change of the individual.... How many minds do you save in such an expression? The most within the acceptance of what was possible within an oppressive rule!
We are the voice of change now, we have the opportunity to extend this wisdom beyond the passivity in response into the act of expressions in freedom of both body and mind.... We must evolve, or unknowingly remain in a now passive induced state of oppression.
So much more is possible now, and yet, we don't act upon it.
You must be speaking for yourself because you are not speaking for me. And if you are trying to speak for the general population what good is that? You can only change your own behavior. Also your point is being lost in your attempt to be witty and smart. Not all of us are university students. An onslaught of words is simply annoying for me. Must be the ADD.
So much more is possible now, and yet, we don't act upon it.
You must be speaking for yourself because you are not speaking for me. And if you are trying to speak for the general population what good is that? You can only change your own behavior. Also your point is being lost in your attempt to be witty and smart. Not all of us are university students. An onslaught of words is simply annoying for me. Must be the ADD.
Where did I attempt to be witty and smart? What an accusation.... If something I posted is confusing to you just ask, you don't have to be rude.... If you find offense only, to what I am saying, it is your choice to do so.... When you hold on to something where you are able to take offense, doesn't it speak volumes about what you are holding on too? I think I was very direct and to the point.
It's very simple..... If I criticize an aspect of your belief with unfounded claims, it should be very easy to redirect me back to where I have done so and use reason to quash those claims..... It supplies knowledge, nothing more, nothing less. The rude accusation with no response on this forum speak very loud and clear for the things the individuals that do so, need to address within themselves. The idea behind the teachings of YOUR belief is mindfulness, so far there hasn't been much of that going on here, but a fair amount of offense. i should be welcomed into these discussions for the purpose of knowledge, whether it be for mine or yours, the ego attachment that attempts to chase me out makes quite a statement.
Anyone witnessing what is going here, I ask you to do a simple thing...... Use compassion and go to any one of my posts and ask if there has been a single direct response to the points I have brought forward.
Even if my system of thought is way beyond the realm of logic, do you think the way I am addressing myself right now is outside of the realm of reason? It should be very easy to reason with a mind like I am offering, now ask why this isn't being done.
Where did I attempt to be witty and smart? What an accusation.... If something I posted is confusing to you just ask, you don't have to be rude.... If you find offense only, to what I am saying, it is your choice to do so.... When you hold on to something where you are able to take offense, doesn't it speak volumes about what you are holding on too? I think I was very direct and to the point.
No, this is direct and to the point. I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm just expressing my opinion of what you are doing based on what I got from reading your posts. As federica pointed out the OP is 15 and as I pointed out I am not a university student.There is something to be said for being sensitive to the responses from your audience and tailoring your message to them, when you are trying to sell what seems to be some sort of social movement Also, why are you so sensitive to critiicism
Now, to leave the rude behavior behind, I will continue and respond.
The problem associated with choice is paramount to the growth of knowledge.
In the aspect of thought, why is there a limit to your statement?
What if your behavior could change everyones behavior? Kind of changes the statement doesn't it? Accepting something and working within it's parameters only ensures that it continues, stepping completely outside of the box where there are no parameters and the possibilities become endless.
Buddhism has stepped outside the box, the problem is that it only pertains to the mind...... The statement becomes, everyone needs to think as I do to get it, without the knowledge or mindfulness that this is simply an impossibility.
If there was a physical nature that married thought and action, action would be extended as far as thought. It doesn't take much to see that this is not the case!
The behaviors that don't fit into the moralistic expanse of the Buddhist ideal, exist because we allow the physical aspects of conditioning that produce these behaviors to continue.
Not everyone responds to the same aspect of teaching, become enlightened in the mind to eventually become free in the body; or become free in the body to eventually become enlightened in the mind..... It's all the same! Is Buddhism complete if it can't see what we are lacking as an entire body of humanity?
As federica pointed out the OP is 15 and as I pointed out I am not a university student.There is something to be said for being sensitive to the responses from your audience and tailoring your message to them, when you are trying to sell what seems to be some sort of social movement Also, why are you so sensitive to critiicism
I have tried to bring thought to both aspects here, there are points that are very simple and points that extend beyond.... it is a choice of the reader to respond to what they desire to respond to. I'm not putting limits or exclusions here, the only one attempting to do so here is you. As far as criticism is concerned, I invite it, I encourage it, I welcome it..... But you actually have to do it.... Criticize my posts all you want, generalizations concerning my character are not a criticism, they are an attack! I think you are confused about what criticism actually is, critical thinking applies!
I like your Buddha, I do not like your Buddhists. Your Buddhists are so unlike your Buddha.
You know the brilliance in this criticism when Gandhi coined this when talking about Christians? It only applies to you if you alone are the one applying it.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
If you know of a better hole, go to it. You have been requested by both a moderator and other members to temper your response to the Op and the topic. You've basically taken this thread over with numerous posts and endless diatribe. You make little sense, and use whole paragraphs where simple sentences would do. Try to give succinct responses, stick to topic and permit others to at least respond before wading in with another overly long rambling post. Thanks.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
There are a lot of ways you can ditch a draft. The easiest one being go to a therapist and see them a bit, maybe act a bit crazy and concerned about the situation, then ask for a note that says you're not mentally stable to serve. That note should be enough to get you exempted from the draft.
A lot of the times if you have physical illnesses too, like asthma, or even a skin condition, if you over exaggerate it and get a doctors note that would work.
I think that the doctors who give out many of these will see their licenses (ie. government approval) revoked. I think that when the government quickly forces a few doctors out of business, then most of the rest would quickly get right in line.
0
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Any more constructive topics on the subject of the OP? We expanded it for a bit, a while back, but we kinda lost the point along the way. MindGate, has your question been adequately addressed, to your satisfaction, do you think? I mean, can we actually wring anything else out of this one, or are we done, dja think....?
This is samsara. You cannot fix samsara, you just stop grasping. That is the path. The path of buddhism is not to end war.
And finally, we have a proper example of the Buddhist practice. It takes responsibility for itself and makes a clear and concise statement without offense. This displays integrity! Now perhaps we can move forward through mutual respect and even have a discussion.
Now to respond to the OP, there is a poignant example given in the type of interaction that has developed here. The act of war and the participation is the question, but perhaps the question should investigate the importance of every word that comes from our mouth and perhaps even the result of silence. When discussing our nature, we need not look any further than this thread. I have been treated very rudely by the practitioners on this forum. Given this example within the right circumstance of a large scale pertaining to property or right; you might just find war. I have entered this forum without a single aspect of malice, with only I ideal. This ideal does not apply to belief, but to conscience; this ideal is comprised solely upon finding peace for every life and every mind. Along with this ideal came a simple question, does the passivity within the Buddhist practice itself and the adherence to it through belief, ensure that peace can never be obtained? It is part of the Buddhist ideal to give up our attachments, that it is attachment that leads to suffering. Does the attachment to belief also apply? I have been accused of all sorts of things on this forum. I'm not making any sense, I'm rambling on, I have ADD, I'm acting like a crazy person, I'm derailing threads..... If what I had been posting fit neatly within the guidelines of Buddhism, there wouldn't be an issue. In spite of all these accusations, one thing has been perfectly clear; there has been understanding enough in what I've written for the responders to take offense and begin attacking my character. To clearly, concisely and poignantly respond to the OP, this is how war begins. It is not only in the act of taking up arms, but in every word that comes from our mouth, every thought that enters our mind, every action taken, as well as every decision not to act.
I think that the doctors who give out many of these will see their licenses (ie. government approval) revoked. I think that when the government quickly forces a few doctors out of business, then most of the rest would quickly get right in line.
There are A LOT of therapists and medical doctors to get notes from. They really don't want you in the army if you're crazy, or will possibly die from asthma or be slowing down your squad with a major disease. If they weren't worried about your mental issues they could easily draft prisoners from over crowded jails with the agreement of letting them be free after they serve. They don't do it because they're worried about their mental trust worthiness. So it really would be very easy to get a doctors note to skip out on a draft.
They did not let my dad serve in Vietnam because he had an irregular heart beat and flat feet. My dad walks very fast, and is a security guard, so his feet don't bother him. Now he is 63 and strong as an Ox. So they don't want you in the army if you got any questionable health issues.
There was CO status during at least part of the Vietnam war, but it was difficult to get. And not all countries have that, if I'm not mistaken. Sweden is among the most liberal; it has an alternative service program that allows CO's to spend 2 years serving their country by participating in projects at home.
in world war 1, this was true. it was difficult to get the CO deferment. but ever since WW2, if a person is willing to serve in a peaceful capacity, CO status is available. I was raised Mennonite. Many of my relatives and acquaintances served in various capacities (mental hospitals, reconstruction, government projects, etc.) for 2-3 years instead of joining the military. Many of them took the initiative and volunteered various alternative service assignments before being drafted. Many continue to do this today, even though there is no draft.
my dad served in the PAX program in the late 50s in Germany.
this is true in all the peace churches -- that is, Mennonite, Brethren, Amish, Quaker, and maybe a few more I've forgotten.
Comments
In war, of course, killing does occur. However, imagine how much more cooking occurs than killing, even during wartime. How much more laundry or mail service. Freight delivery or motor repair. There are tons of ways to serve, if called upon, that won't require killing.
Don't all of these things support the killing?
If I earn my living making bombs, can I say I have nothing to do with the maiming and killing?
If I deliver the freight to the planes, or fix the motors in the tanks, can I say I have nothing to do with the death and destruction?
Whenever I give any logistical support, am I not part of the killing and maiming of mostly poor people (men, women, and children) who have done nothing wrong?
If I shut off my mind and just follow orders, does that absolve me?
What if I won't or can't shut off my mind? What should I do then?
If we look at the Mahayana sutras, especially that which relate to Ksitigarbha, he remains in the Hell realms to teach the teachings of the Buddha to those who are reborn and tortured there. And to alleviate their suffering. He would help their wounds heal, offer food and drink, clean up their wounds, and so on. Does that mean he condones the acts of torture?
Sometimes methinks that, being the products of Western education, we tend to over-think things. Case-in-point: vegetarianism. We are so caught up at the 4th, 5th, 6th, etc., levels of our actions that we often forget that sometimes we need to think of the consequences to our own selves. We cannot help others if we are injured seriously. We can definitely spread the message of non-violence better in we were drafted and requested for non-violent vocations like cleaning, cooking, administration, etc. Most often it's not a good idea to dodge the draft because it would be recorded federally that you are a deserter.
If you escape to another country, what are the repercussions to our family? You might never see them again. Ever thought of their suffering? How about the difficulties you might face later when everything is over? What are the legal implications?
Does it help if I mention that I have no animosity?
I came here to learn and perhaps, (once in a while) if I'm able, help others.
"Would you blame Alfred Nobel for the deaths of millions all over the world, because of the use of TNT?"
Kind of. He did intend/convert its use as/to weapons, correct?
"... If you are delivering a set of gourmet steak knives to a friendly old woman, and she uses them to kill someone or some cats or other animals, are you going to blame yourself for delivering the knives to her?"
No. The knives were not intended as murder weapons.
"If we look at the Mahayana sutras, especially that which relate to Ksitigarbha, he remains in the Hell realms to teach the teachings of the Buddha to those who are reborn and tortured there. And to alleviate their suffering. He would help their wounds heal, offer food and drink, clean up their wounds, and so on. Does that mean he condones the acts of torture?"
No. Is he helping the torturer or the victim?
"We can definitely spread the message of non-violence better in we were drafted and requested for non-violent vocations like cleaning, cooking, administration, etc."
I don't believe I can spread Peace by being part of the war machine. I will try to spread Peace to the folks in prison with me.
"Most often it's not a good idea to dodge the draft because it would be recorded federally that you are a deserter."
OH, I wouldn't be "dodging," I'd be openly resisting.
If the federal government holds Peaceful non-cooperation against people - and they do - then that is not a goverment worth defending.
"If you escape to another country, what are the repercussions to our family? You might never see them again. Ever thought of their suffering?"
I like what Thoreau said when someone said, “Henry why are you in jail?” He said, Why are you not in jail?”
"How about the difficulties you might face later when everything is over?"
Maybe, when its over things will be better.
"What are the legal implications?"
I refuse to put legal concerns above moral concerns.
Again, thank you for the good questions.
Peace.
:hair:
take COVER!!!!!!!!!!!! :ninja:
What happened to Russia after the cold war?
We're really not talking about war, we're talking about the fluidity of pieces of paper that we use to assess worth.
The moral aspect of war in this day and age is a symptomatic response to a much more poignant aspect of denial..... Money!
I really do appreciate the fervor concerning the moralistic personal view, unknowingly however, it brings in an aspect of ego.
You can't simply remove war from this infrastructure, you have to ween a system like this off of it or change the system entirely. With this knowledge, what impact does a centered moral view alone offer?
This is the detachment within belief..... I have the moralistic high ground, therefore everything else is wrong; it says nothing and makes no advance towards growth within the system we were all born in to.
Do we adhere to a moralistic view if it means that we discard mindfulness?
It's not about ending war, it's about creating an infrastructure where war is an impossibility; what reason is there for war when every aspect of your life is fulfilled? The Buddhist ideal is not enough, look around you! If it was, it would have already created an infrastructure that is so beyond the one we have now, there would be absolutely no reason to hold on to it.
Knowledge requires a physical, tangible example...... Passivity in thought does not supply this... If everyone thought as I do is not working; at some point you have to utilize thought and create.
There was no freedom in thought as it applied to changing an infrastructure, it was hierarchal rule. Anything that questioned this was destroyed, what can be destroyed when it becomes a growth of the personal mind? It does not speak directly towards change within the hierarchal rule, it asks for introspection towards the change of the individual.... How many minds do you save in such an expression? The most within the acceptance of what was possible within an oppressive rule!
We are the voice of change now, we have the opportunity to extend this wisdom beyond the passivity in response into the act of expressions in freedom of both body and mind.... We must evolve, or unknowingly remain in a now passive induced state of oppression.
If you find offense only, to what I am saying, it is your choice to do so.... When you hold on to something where you are able to take offense, doesn't it speak volumes about what you are holding on too?
I think I was very direct and to the point.
The rude accusation with no response on this forum speak very loud and clear for the things the individuals that do so, need to address within themselves.
The idea behind the teachings of YOUR belief is mindfulness, so far there hasn't been much of that going on here, but a fair amount of offense.
i should be welcomed into these discussions for the purpose of knowledge, whether it be for mine or yours, the ego attachment that attempts to chase me out makes quite a statement.
Even if my system of thought is way beyond the realm of logic, do you think the way I am addressing myself right now is outside of the realm of reason?
It should be very easy to reason with a mind like I am offering, now ask why this isn't being done.
The problem associated with choice is paramount to the growth of knowledge.
In the aspect of thought, why is there a limit to your statement?
What if your behavior could change everyones behavior?
Kind of changes the statement doesn't it?
Accepting something and working within it's parameters only ensures that it continues, stepping completely outside of the box where there are no parameters and the possibilities become endless.
Buddhism has stepped outside the box, the problem is that it only pertains to the mind...... The statement becomes, everyone needs to think as I do to get it, without the knowledge or mindfulness that this is simply an impossibility.
If there was a physical nature that married thought and action, action would be extended as far as thought. It doesn't take much to see that this is not the case!
The behaviors that don't fit into the moralistic expanse of the Buddhist ideal, exist because we allow the physical aspects of conditioning that produce these behaviors to continue.
Not everyone responds to the same aspect of teaching, become enlightened in the mind to eventually become free in the body; or become free in the body to eventually become enlightened in the mind..... It's all the same!
Is Buddhism complete if it can't see what we are lacking as an entire body of humanity?
As far as criticism is concerned, I invite it, I encourage it, I welcome it..... But you actually have to do it.... Criticize my posts all you want, generalizations concerning my character are not a criticism, they are an attack!
I think you are confused about what criticism actually is, critical thinking applies!
You know the brilliance in this criticism when Gandhi coined this when talking about Christians?
It only applies to you if you alone are the one applying it.
You have been requested by both a moderator and other members to temper your response to the Op and the topic. You've basically taken this thread over with numerous posts and endless diatribe. You make little sense, and use whole paragraphs where simple sentences would do. Try to give succinct responses, stick to topic and permit others to at least respond before wading in with another overly long rambling post. Thanks.
This is samsara. You cannot fix samsara, you just stop grasping. That is the path. The path of buddhism is not to end war.
A lot of the times if you have physical illnesses too, like asthma, or even a skin condition, if you over exaggerate it and get a doctors note that would work.
We expanded it for a bit, a while back, but we kinda lost the point along the way.
MindGate, has your question been adequately addressed, to your satisfaction, do you think?
I mean, can we actually wring anything else out of this one, or are we done, dja think....?
Now perhaps we can move forward through mutual respect and even have a discussion.
The act of war and the participation is the question, but perhaps the question should investigate the importance of every word that comes from our mouth and perhaps even the result of silence.
When discussing our nature, we need not look any further than this thread.
I have been treated very rudely by the practitioners on this forum. Given this example within the right circumstance of a large scale pertaining to property or right; you might just find war.
I have entered this forum without a single aspect of malice, with only I ideal. This ideal does not apply to belief, but to conscience; this ideal is comprised solely upon finding peace for every life and every mind.
Along with this ideal came a simple question, does the passivity within the Buddhist practice itself and the adherence to it through belief, ensure that peace can never be obtained?
It is part of the Buddhist ideal to give up our attachments, that it is attachment that leads to suffering.
Does the attachment to belief also apply?
I have been accused of all sorts of things on this forum. I'm not making any sense, I'm rambling on, I have ADD, I'm acting like a crazy person, I'm derailing threads..... If what I had been posting fit neatly within the guidelines of Buddhism, there wouldn't be an issue.
In spite of all these accusations, one thing has been perfectly clear; there has been understanding enough in what I've written for the responders to take offense and begin attacking my character.
To clearly, concisely and poignantly respond to the OP, this is how war begins.
It is not only in the act of taking up arms, but in every word that comes from our mouth, every thought that enters our mind, every action taken, as well as every decision not to act.
They did not let my dad serve in Vietnam because he had an irregular heart beat and flat feet. My dad walks very fast, and is a security guard, so his feet don't bother him. Now he is 63 and strong as an Ox. So they don't want you in the army if you got any questionable health issues.
my dad served in the PAX program in the late 50s in Germany.
this is true in all the peace churches -- that is, Mennonite, Brethren, Amish, Quaker, and maybe a few more I've forgotten.
here's a few links:
http://paxmcc.com/historical.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Public_Service