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You Just Got Drafted - Kill or Be Killed
MindGate
United States Veteran
Lets say your country enters a war. It is required that all able-bodied men ages 18+ are to be sent overseas to war. You will be forced to kill and will have little time for any sort of religious practices. You cannot weasel your way out of it, you're forced to. They don't care if you're a Christian, Buddhism, Muslim, or a damn Amish: you're going.
So, do you go to war? If so, how do you act during it? Will you kill? Etc.
Or, do you try to smuggle yourself out of the country?
Hmmm? I've been thinking about this for a while. I'd probably run and hide to Canada. Eh?
So, do you go to war? If so, how do you act during it? Will you kill? Etc.
Or, do you try to smuggle yourself out of the country?
Hmmm? I've been thinking about this for a while. I'd probably run and hide to Canada. Eh?
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Comments
I'm not sure how I'd deal with it.
"A conscientious objector (CO) is an "individual [who has] claimed the right to refuse to perform military service"[1] on the grounds of freedom of thought, conscience, or religion"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector#Religious_motives
It's not in the military's interest to recruit people whom may hesitate on the front line. That's my understanding, at least.
I know you gave the example of your country not caring, but most do. There's always a way out of being drafted.
What if ...
What if ...
What if ...
What if asking what-if questions were just filling the time that might otherwise be spent on practice?
If they told me I must, I'd tell them I must not.
If they are going to hurt me for not helping them to kill and maim inocent men, women, and children (who's government does not represent them any more than this one represents me), that is within their power. I will not give my concent.
If we have to go to jail, we will have pleanty of time to meditate. So its not realy "kill or be killed." Its kill and maim or stand on principal.
It surprises and saddens me that so many normaly peaceful people would even consider joining the war machine. Who would the Buddha kill and maim?
I haven't yet finnished reading Tolstoy's "The Kingdom of God Is Within You" but I'm already thinking I'll need to buy a case. One can find it online for free.
The bankers have been bailed out. The treasury is bankrupt. China is buying dept, even taking our freshwater to refill its depleted aquifers. The concentration camps and man-maid diseases. The Patriot Act. The Codex Alamentarius. Hoaxed hi-jackings.
Facts.
Will it happen again? Is it part of a bigger plan? Will that plan, much like the sinking of the Lusitania and the attack of Pearl Harbor, lead us to another World War? Is the world becoming over-populated? Will they kill two birds with one stone?
The Argentine Economic Crisis of 2001 will be a good reflection of whether or not we'll be drafted.
In any event, this is a purely hypothetical exercise...
Let's say that I am brave enough, and politely refuse.
What if I say; “Please, I am committed to not hurting anyone and I ask you, please do not hurt me. I ask you, please do not hurt anyone.”
Will you actually pull the trigger? I'm pretty certain that most people threatening this level of violence are actually not wanting to be that violent.
srsly tho, proly go to canada.
Our future lives have an almost unseeable end and we do not know our destination of migration, most of the times in the past we have spent it dwelling in the lower realms for unfathomable aeons, Having finally found this qualified human life now with which to study and practise the methods toward liberation and Great enlightenment we should not waste it and we should take great care to avoid committing negative actions that will cause us to loose this and other
similarly qualified vessels in our future lives. This life can be unbearable at time but future lives are far more numerous and more painful knowing this avoid causing negative actions !
:thumbsup:
Of course I would be careful not to drop the soap. I would stop using soap! To keep the other prisoners away with my stench.
The face of cruelty would be an opportunity to practice (jail). The face of death and due to uncertain rebirth you might be unable to practice for a long time.
you're 15, so you're asking adults on this forum to make decisions or show you their reasoning over something which doesn't even concern you!
Why not wait until the schyt hits the fan, and THEN think about what you'd do...?? Oh, really?
no civilised Western country would commit anybody into compulsorily joining the army with the view to putting them in the front line ONLY - to kill.
Every civilised country (and that generally covers the whereabouts of most members here) have their ample share of pacifists and conscientious objectors.
So... where are you talking about?? I'd specify exactly what my father specified. "Please put me somewhere, where I won't have to kill anyone." They put him in charge of Communications and light entertainment. Any country with this severe a lockdown and a compulsory military conscription programme, is not going to let anybody 'smuggle' themselves out of the country. Borders will be heavily guarded, policed and manned. They can't get in. You sure can't get out.... Poor Canada. What have they done to deserve you??
(That was a joke....
If you could create an existence where the expression of life provided an example that was so advanced that war become utterly foolish....... Would you? What is stopping us from doing so?
I'm missing the understanding here of becoming a conscientious objector of war and I suppose being OK that war exists in the first place.
So we act when it effects us, but remain passive until that time comes?
If lots of us go to jail, they will have turned the jails into Sangha.
If we all say no to war, war will be over.
Luckily this scenerio will 99.9999% surely not happen.
I forgot about the fact you could ask to be a cook or something. Lets hope they'd comply.
From what I've been told, you couldn't get out of being drafting no matter what your beliefs are. I suppose you wouldn't have to be in the front lines if you ask not to, but still I'd be anti-war (unless, ya know, we were fighting some kind of tyrannical force nobly) and I'd wouldn't even want to cook for them.
Oh, and I'm sure you could smuggle your way into Canada somehow.
And the whole "What did Canada do that was so bad to deserve me?" hurt real bad. It made me cry a little bit.
Just kidding. Canada should be thankful for me if I were to move there.
Just 50 years ago, Eisenhower warned of the military-industrial-complex because what had gotten to him was the marketing of the war machine in advertizements aimed at the general public.
What existed then is mere child's play when compared to today's endless conditioning of the population for wars. Just look around and see how many advertizements (including bumper stickers on cars) you see (every single day) that support the war machine.
Which bumper stickers would the Buddha put on his car? Which countries would Buddha support bombing?
How do you convince a mind like that his intentions were NOT noble?
Isn't there something deeper to war than the act itself?
Why don't we look to the source of it's origin and deal with that?
Why don't we demand that the aspect of our social adherence be changed at it's core?
The passivity of saying no speaks to a boisterous truth about yourself, but when does it speak for another?
it's not an in-depth study, he's just asking what we'd do....
If you were born with an identical genetic makeup and experienced the exact influences, logic prevails that you would make the same choices and perform the same acts. Declaring otherwise would state that you were created different, with an innate quality of discernment..... This destroys the concept of perfection and/or equality by the very fiber of our being.
The mind who is on the outside looking in, basically condemns this life through the adherence of their belief.
Now what is the Buddhist example?
Did this life choose this path through Karmic attachment?
Concerning Hitler and the question.......
"How do you convince a mind like that his intentions were NOT noble?"
This could have as easily been your mind, the answer is clear..... You can't! It's not the mind we are speaking of, it's the conditions that developed it.
Buddhism detaches itself from the act and the condition that produced it; if it is their Karmic attachment, what is there to be said about it?
If Buddhism is correct, these are all necessary steps towards the progression of the individual towards achieving enlightenment........ IF Buddhism is not correct, it is just as condemning as Christianity; we can't identify the condition, nor can we identify without a purpose to the act, this life could be our own.
Quite a leap of faith!
you need to lighten up a bit.
Your intensity is admirable, but must be difficult to sustain all the time. It's like the Buddha's lesson on the guitar strings being either too tight or too loose.....
Intensity may be your right, but is not always appropriate.
Enjoy!
How do you convince a mind speaks volumes here...... You don't! You identify the physical nature that produced the mind or accept that it needed to exist......
Leap
Are you actually paying any attention to the origin of the topic?
You will either provide knowledge of your own where needed, or you will gain understanding of what I am posting.
Misdirected criticism accomplishes nothing for anyone, nor does it provide knowledge for anyone!
:wtf:
To me it seems as though Buddhists are on the fence.... I absolutely will not perform this act, but I am unsure whether it is OK or not that another does?
It's not OK per se, but because it is the choice and design of Karmic growth of the individual, I can't unequivocally say we need to take steps in our own action to ensure that it doesn't.
If I'm way outside the realm of understanding, this should be an easy exercise.
Being rude, makes a statement all on it's own!
I live on an island where it is compulsory for all males to serve either in the Army, Police or Civil Defense for two years. And you do not have a choice where you go. So there are Buddhists who are crafted into National Service who are forced to carry a gun and are trained to kill. There is no such thing as an Active Objector in my country. The only way you could get around this law is if you had signed up with the Civil Defense or Police Force even before your papers are drawn up. Which is impossible because you receive your notice for a medical when you are 16.
So if there were a draft in my country, yes I'll answer the call for duty, but I will not brag about it. For me it's for the survival of my tiny island country, and it's about the survival of my families and friends. And also the fact that I can't escape because I'm surrounded by water all around and the only way to reach to another county is to cross a bridge.
So yes, it may not seem very Buddhist to accept the responsibility of killing. But I think it's also not Buddhist to resist and deprive yourself of whatever little freedom you have in times of war, because those small times of personal freedom is when you really can make a difference to both your life and the lives of others. That, and you have no idea how horrible prison is in my country.
It might be a bit extreme, but to me... The lack of action is equal to an action.
A person that believes they can't do anything about the atrocities in the world is equal to a person who picks up a gun and pulls the trigger..... We are all equal in this, some choices are just a bit more distant from the horror.
The distance speaks to an ability to change it, imagine the horror of being faced with the possibility that you could have changed it all within your freedom of expression.... I would consider it might be as terrible as placing a gun to another's head and pulling the trigger.
Don't worry if you're Buddhist, we are not all equal in your belief.... Some have a better understanding of enlightenment and choose not to perceive suffering, therefore it doesn't really exist but in the choice of the individual.