Do or Did Tibetan Monks Practice Mysticism?

DaltheJigsaw

Do Tibetan Monks Practice Mysticism?

Ada_B

Er... how do you define "mysticism"?

compassionate_warrior

And, which monks? The young ones, from what I've read, spend a lot of time memorizing texts. The older ones, if they have a strong meditation practice--undoubtedly!

Dakini

Tibetan Buddhism is highly mystical. Mysticism is part of the package. I think advanced meditators have mystical experiences. But do us a favor, Leon, and look "mysticism" up in the dictionary, and post it, please.

Barra

The Vietnamese certainly do. I read a fascinating book by a contemporary monk who learned a lot of "magical" skills, but mostly he became a healer. He moved to New England 10 yrs or so ago.

compassionate_warrior

The Vietnamese certainly do. I read a fascinating book by a contemporary monk who learned a lot of "magical" skills, but mostly he became a healer. He moved to New England 10 yrs or so ago.

What was the title/author of the book, Barra? Sounds fascinating.

DaltheJigsaw

Tibetan Buddhism is highly mystical. Mysticism is part of the package. I think advanced meditators have mystical experiences. But do us a favor, Leon, and look "mysticism" up in the dictionary, and post it, please.

a religion based on mystical communion with an ultimate reality
obscure or irrational thought
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Mysticism (from the Greek μυστικός, mystikos, an initiate of a mystery religion) is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, instinct or insight. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism
The beliefs, ideas, or thoughts of mystics; A doctrine of direct communication or spiritual intuition of divine truth; A transcendental union of soul or mind with the divine reality or divinity; Obscure thoughts and speculations
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mysticism
mystic - mysterious: having an import not apparent to the senses nor obvious to the intelligence; beyond ordinary understanding; "mysterious symbols"; "the mystical style of Blake"; "occult lore"; "the secret learning of the ancients"
mystic - relating to or resembling mysticism; "mystical intuition"; "mystical theories about the securities market"
mystic - someone who believes in the existence of realities beyond human comprehension
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
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compassionate_warrior

By George, I think he covered it...!

Dakini

"conscious awareness of an ultimate reality" (etc.) That's what happens when advanced meditators meditate, so yes, Tib. monks do experience mysticism. "Irrational thought" isn't necessarily a put-down. It just means coming to know something via non-rational, i.e. intuitive (or mystical) means.

filosophia

A Buddha does not write things down, so the act of recording scripture, however beneficial it is to younger generations, is still a karmic act. However the Buddha was known to speak his wisdom, so it seems like he preferred to teach rather than to be in exclusion writing in manuscripts. Interestingly Jesus Christ did the same, as well as Socrates, both spoke truths but did not record their own words.

DaltheJigsaw

A Buddha does not write things down, so the act of recording scripture, however beneficial it is to younger generations, is still a karmic act. However the Buddha was known to speak his wisdom, so it seems like he preferred to teach rather than to be in exclusion writing in manuscripts. Interestingly Jesus Christ did the same, as well as Socrates, both spoke truths but did not record their own words.

That is definitely interesting and truly different....

MellowViper

So the Buddha was like Socrates in not writing stuff down.

compassionate_warrior

Well, I've been reading a book on the evolution of Tibetan Buddhism, and the author (Waddell) includes the use of mantras ("spells") in his definition of mysticism.

Why do you want to know? That might be the interesting question.

DaltheJigsaw

Well, I've been reading a book on the evolution of Tibetan Buddhism, and the author (Waddell) includes the use of mantras ("spells") in his definition of mysticism.

Why do you want to know? That might be the interesting question.

It seems that Tibetan Mysticism is in Esoterics and Occult...

compassionate_warrior

Well, it does have elements of that. Waddell seems to think that Tibetan Buddhism, by definition, is mysticism. You might enjoy his book, titled simply, "Tibetan Buddhism".

genkaku

Writing and speaking carry about the same freight, in my opinion. Both are tentative suggestions that point but seldom reveal. As a result, there are stanzas such as this:

Wishing to entice the blind,
The Buddha has playfully let words escape his golden mouth.
Heaven and earth have ever since
Been filled with entangling briars.

The operative word, for my money, is "playfully."

The "entangling briars" speak for themselves.

compassionate_warrior

Are you sure you posted that on the right thread, genkaku?

Whoknows

Yes, Mahamudra is often described as the Mystic Path (Mind at Ease Traleg Rinpoche). And Traleg Rinpoche used to be a Tibetan monk. Though I think he's still Tibetan

Cheers, WK

Cinorjer

Of course Tibetan Buddhism is a highly mystic practice and belief system, by any definition. It is highly ritualized, distinguishes between relative or conventional knowledge and absolute truth, and that absolute truth can only be acquired directly from a teacher (usually a reincarnated Rinpoche) after an initiation, where esoteric and secret practices are taught. That's mysticism.

But this isn't a criticism. All the rituals and esoteric practices are supposed to help focus the student and give structure to the practice. I suppose all religions and schools of Buddhism have that, to some degree. Even in Zen, there's this mysterious "satori" or direct experience of egoless mind that can't be learned from books.

compassionate_warrior

Yes, Mahamudra is often described as the Mystic Path (Mind at Ease Traleg Rinpoche). And Traleg Rinpoche used to be a Tibetan monk. Though I think he's still Tibetan

He's still Tibetan, and he's still a lama. Just no longer a monk.

That's mysticism.But this isn't a criticism.

No, and why would it be? Is mysticism bad? According to whom? The Eastern Orthodox Church, to which our OP may or may not have belonged, being Ukrainian, definitely has its mystical side. And meditation is by nature a mystical experience. I can't imagine spirituality without mysticism.
(Isn't Communion, eating the blood and flesh of Christ (of all bizarre, cannibalistic things) supposed to be a mystical experience?)

Vajraheart

I would define mysticism as any path that delves into the mysteries of the cosmos through transcendence of sense perception by way of various spiritual or yogic practices.

In this case Vajrayana is a form of mysticism, albeit an non-theistic one.

Vajraheart

Or it's a polytheistic/emptiness as in the theism in it is a means not an end.

compassionate_warrior

Or it's a polytheistic/emptiness as in the theism in it is a means not an end.

This is a very interesting point, and, I think, spot on!

Whoknows

Yes, Mahamudra is often described as the Mystic Path (Mind at Ease Traleg Rinpoche). And Traleg Rinpoche used to be a Tibetan monk. Though I think he's still Tibetan

He's still Tibetan, and he's still a lama. Just no longer a monk.

That was meant to be a joke! ....Or was it too lame.