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i lie everyday at work. of course i could be wrong, but if my suspicions are correct, i don't think my boss would take too kindly to me being a lesbian and it is still legal in my state to fire me for it.
shhh. don't tell.
It's not really lying unless everyday you say something like, "I'm totally not a lesbian" or "I'm only attracted to and dating men." But even if you did, I think it's understandable under the circumstances. The intention here isn't to deceive your employer as much as it to protect yourself from harassment or worse. I'm sure there are ways of skirting the issue without having to lie, but I can see how lying is probably easier. The real question is, how much effort do we want to put into observing the fourth precept?
I tend to concur with Aristotle, that lying is not legitimate unless over-ridden by some higher virtue, such as the lying to the Nazis to save a Jew example. But also that one should endeavour to avoid the necessity of lying, if at all possible.
I agree for the most part. In most circumstances, if I'm forced into a position where I have to either lie or watch someone die because I tell the truth, I'm going to lie my fucking ass off. The only issue I have with this particular example, however, is that it generally assumes lying is the only way to protect these people.
For example, one could preemptively befriend local Nazis, having a few drinks with them or whatnot, so that they wouldn't even be suspected of harbouring Jews in the first place. Or, if confronted unexpectedly, one could simply invite them in (assuming the people were hidden in an attic or something), offer them a drink and say, "Have a look if you want." It'd be the equivalent of saying "I've got nothing to hide" without actually having to lie.
Either way, there's not much one could do to prevent them from searching one's home if that's what they had in mind to do; although they probably wouldn't look as hard if they didn't feel suspicious. And having an open and friendly attitude would probably help. But, like I said, I'd have no qualms about lying in this situation if I had to or couldn't think of anything better.
Have you broken one of the Buddhist precepts - Thou should not lie? Don't you think it is necessary to lie sometimes?
To answer the OP, I've definitely lied before. I don't know if it's ever necessary to lie, but I do think that it can be easier to deal with certain situations by lying than not. The question is, how much effort do we want to put into observing the fourth precept? At times, I've put forth a lot, but others, not so much. Looking back, though, I don't think I've ever really had a good reason to lie when I did as much as I simply found it to be more expedient.
Dear Dorje, I like your opinion - that it is necessary to lie sometimes.
Dear Federica, You have a point - better be silent than lie. I wonder now if there is something like a white lie.
I also assume you have not lied before. That's great! But I can't back up this statement. It is not necessary I think.
Dear Journey,
Like Federica says, when is it necessary? I have heard of people lying for being absent from work but I wonder if there is a case where people like for food or for medicine.
Dear Zombiegirl, For a person who lies everyday, you are pretty frank! But all for the sake of Bread and Butter, just keep your boyfriend, Lia.
Dear Ada_B, A higher virtue is rather subjective.
Dear Former Monk John,
I have not read that about Buddha also - that one can lie to prevent a bigger crime. Not in the Dhammapada too but then I don't really scrutinize the words. I don’t bother anyway and I hope you don’t bother too about things that annoy you. Take that as an exercise for your patience.
Dear Mountain You are cute!
Dear Ficus_religiosa,
I don't see how a lie can terminate truth.
Dear Jeffry, Do you think a white lie can cause negative karma?
Dear PeacefulAssemblyChur, It should be okay to slip once a while.
Dear Deformed, What has this got to do with lying?
Dear Sabre, I think it would be nice to lie to make someone smile but someone pointed that lying can bring forth negative karma. You mention about the importance of the effort to keep the precepts. Maybe, the efforts generate positive karma.
Dear Jason, You mention that Thanissaro Bhikkhu notes that throughout the 550 birth stories contained in the Jakata, the precept against lying is the only precept the Buddha doesn't break. Does he break the other four?
I like that part about not having to lie to protect.
Comments
For example, one could preemptively befriend local Nazis, having a few drinks with them or whatnot, so that they wouldn't even be suspected of harbouring Jews in the first place. Or, if confronted unexpectedly, one could simply invite them in (assuming the people were hidden in an attic or something), offer them a drink and say, "Have a look if you want." It'd be the equivalent of saying "I've got nothing to hide" without actually having to lie.
Either way, there's not much one could do to prevent them from searching one's home if that's what they had in mind to do; although they probably wouldn't look as hard if they didn't feel suspicious. And having an open and friendly attitude would probably help. But, like I said, I'd have no qualms about lying in this situation if I had to or couldn't think of anything better.
If you don't need any effort to keep the precepts, you probably are enlightened or at least very close
And indeed it is not possible to keep the mindfulness at peek level all the time.
I like your opinion - that it is necessary to lie sometimes.
Dear Federica,
You have a point - better be silent than lie. I wonder now if there is something like a white lie.
I also assume you have not lied before. That's great! But I can't back up this statement. It is not necessary I think.
Dear Journey,
Like Federica says, when is it necessary? I have heard of people lying for being absent from work but I wonder if there is a case where people like for food or for medicine.
Dear Zombiegirl,
For a person who lies everyday, you are pretty frank! But all for the sake of Bread and Butter, just keep your boyfriend, Lia.
Dear Ada_B,
A higher virtue is rather subjective.
Dear Former Monk John,
I have not read that about Buddha also - that one can lie to prevent a bigger crime. Not in the Dhammapada too but then I don't really scrutinize the words. I don’t bother anyway and I hope you don’t bother too about things that annoy you. Take that as an exercise for your patience.
Dear Mountain
You are cute!
Dear Ficus_religiosa,
I don't see how a lie can terminate truth.
Dear Jeffry,
Do you think a white lie can cause negative karma?
Dear PeacefulAssemblyChur,
It should be okay to slip once a while.
Dear Deformed,
What has this got to do with lying?
Dear Sabre,
I think it would be nice to lie to make someone smile but someone pointed that lying can bring forth negative karma. You mention about the importance of the effort to keep the precepts. Maybe, the efforts generate positive karma.
Dear Jason,
You mention that Thanissaro Bhikkhu notes that throughout the 550 birth stories contained in the Jakata, the precept against lying is the only precept the Buddha doesn't break. Does he break the other four?
I like that part about not having to lie to protect.