What is sexual misconduct?

TheJourney

But you can't help it if you're not physically attracted to someone either...to me, that's a factor. It just is.

Ncryptx

Firstly, I'm not a materialist but someone deeply interested in Buddhism. This does influence the way I perceive the world. The perception of women going about doing this or that is just part of my suffering due to ignorance of the true nature of reality. Unmindful sexual activity is just a temporary blissful state - nothing wrong with that but it's overrated as a goal in life even though we're all hardwired to seek it out. Plus it's a cause of rebirth. Secondly, it's common knowledge that women can take their pick of partners and men cannot. It's always been this way - nothing new about it but the natural order of things - women looking for strong protectors and providers who can provide healthy children and look after them. By pointing this out and my lack of apparent luck I hoped to draw attention to the fact that even though some married people might be adulterers or some might be attracted to animals or worse, sexual misconduct is not really a problem for many ordinary people.

TheJourney

It just seems that way. Women are more private about certain things. You know the way that guys chase around girls, wanting them? Well girls can be just the same way. That's what you need to realize. There is no superiority. You can have anything. If you can understand that anything is possible, and that the world can be yours, you no longer need anything.

ownerof1000oddsocks

But you can't help it if you're not physically attracted to someone either...to me, that's a factor. It just is.

All I can say to that is the most beautiful people I've been with weren't necessarily the most fun to be with. An individual can be incredibly sexy in far more ways than an idealized image.

Dakini

It's just that the kind of young women I'm interested in have a great deal of choice in terms of attractiveness, wealth, charisma, etc. and I'm not really up at the top of the list in that competition.

What about all the other women? You're probably missing out on some real gems by passing them by. Some of the women you think you want to be with are probably a bit shallow. You may be projecting a lot on them, they may not be what you think. Cast a wider net, see what happens. For me, it's brain power and heart power that do it; looks are secondary or tertiary. Confidence helps; take Journey's and 1000Sox's advice. And lots of women say they like a guy who makes them laugh; how's your sense of humor?

(I think we're officially off-topic, now.)

Back to an earlier point, the only protection that covers all the bases is the so-called "female condom". Regular condoms only cover part of the genitalia. STDs can, and do, lurk anywhere in the gen'l vicinity.

Mountains

I would have to disagree that it's ok to see a prostitute, since many (if not most) prostitutes are being exploited.

TheJourney

Exploited. How overused a word. If a woman chooses to have sex for money, she's a willing participant. She made that choice. You could argue that ideally her circumstances should have been different, but that's not reality.

Dakini

I would have to disagree that it's ok to see a prostitute, since many (if not most) prostitutes are being exploited.

According to Buddhist guidelines set thousands of years ago, seeing a prostitute is ok. But times change.

The problem with seeing it as a question of women "choosing to have sex for money", Journey, is that many prostitutes were sexually abused when young, so that distorts their thinking and their value system. Probably many are suffering from unresolved PTSD from childhood incidents. So they were abused and traumatized as kids, then they fall into this "profession", and are further exploited and abused. Though I understand that there are some who don't fit that profile, in which case your point would be valid for those exceptions. But it would be great if those women had other economically viable options.

DhammaDhatu

That's where communication and trust come in.

For me, "trust" is quite an unusual notion in relation to casual or aimless sexual behaviours.

Mountains

Exploited. How overused a word. If a woman chooses to have sex for money, she's a willing participant. She made that choice.

I think that's actually a pretty callous thing to say, and WAAAAAY over-generalized. There are plenty of women who simply have no other choice, and in many parts of the world (including the USA and other "civilized" places), women are effectively held in bondage as sex workers. Do a little reading on the sex trade and you might get your eyes opened.

I'm sure somewhere in the world there's a Miss Kitty who runs a high class bordello where the girls work because that's what they want to be doing with their lives. But the reality is, a large percentage of hookers (outside of Nevada perhaps) aren't in it because it's the lifestyle they'd want for themselves.

TheJourney

How many people really have the life they want for themselves??? seriously??? Do you? Do you think the janitor wants to be janitor? do you think the mcdonalds worker wants to be doing that? No. If you think you're exploited unless you're doing what you want, then there are almost no people in this world who are not exploited.

compassionate_warrior

Journey, I love ya, but I gotta say this: * get * a * clue*. please. Sex worker (usually for someone who takes all or most of your money, and is violent toward you as well) can't compare with janitor or fast-food server.

Vincenzi

sexual misconduct is problematic because we do not know the mind of another

That's where communication and trust come in.

...and reading minds; and what I like to call "shared bubble".

TheJourney

Most prostitutes in america could be a fast-food server. They'd rather be having sex for money then working a no respect job for minimum wage. Can you blame them?

mugzy

Do you think the janitor wants to be janitor? do you think the mcdonalds worker wants to be doing that? No.

I think it is rather presumptuous to declare that all workers in service positions don't want to be doing their jobs. I work three jobs, one of which is a custodial position. It might not be glamorous, but it pays the bills and provides me with resources so I can study the dharma. Many people are glad simply to have a job, even if it's not the career or position they would like to do permanently.

One way to look at menial labor is to apply dharma principles to it. When I mop the floors, I imagine that I am cleaning away delusions. I make my job meaningful by remembering that I am providing a service for sentient beings. I think of the kindness of my employers for giving me my jobs.

While to you they may seem like terrible jobs, for others their work is a source of pride as well as income. They can even be an opportunity to practice.

compassionate_warrior

Sex worker is a respect job?

TheJourney

Girls like sex too. They're having sex for money. Like, that's easy money. Doing something you like anyways. I'm not saying it's always a good thing, but for some girls it's a better choice.

compassionate_warrior

Do you think the janitor wants to be janitor? do you think the mcdonalds worker wants to be doing that? No.

I think it is rather presumptuous to declare that all workers in service positions don't want to be doing their jobs. I work three jobs, one of which is a custodial position. It might not be glamorous, but it pays the bills and provides me with resources so I can study the dharma. Many people are glad simply to have a job, even if it's not the career or position they would like to do permanently.

One way to look at menial labor is to apply dharma principles to it. When I mop the floors, I imagine that I am cleaning away delusions. I make my job meaningful by remembering that I am providing a service for sentient beings. I think of the kindness of my employers for giving me my jobs.

While to you they may seem like terrible jobs, for others their work is a source of pride as well as income. They can even be an opportunity to practice.

Just what I was thinking, Mugzy, but I didn't want to go there, you said it better than I could have. Those "menial" jobs can also be stepping stones upward for immigrants, who perform them with dignity, and they often offer health ins. benefits, which sex work doesn't.

TheJourney

Seemingly, anyways.

Vincenzi

Firstly, I'm not a materialist but someone deeply interested in Buddhism. This does influence the way I perceive the world. The perception of women going about doing this or that is just part of my suffering due to ignorance of the true nature of reality. Unmindful sexual activity is just a temporary blissful state - nothing wrong with that but it's overrated as a goal in life even though we're all hardwired to seek it out. Plus it's a cause of rebirth. Secondly, it's common knowledge that women can take their pick of partners and men cannot. It's always been this way - nothing new about it but the natural order of things - women looking for strong protectors and providers who can provide healthy children and look after them. By pointing this out and my lack of apparent luck I hoped to draw attention to the fact that even though some married people might be adulterers or some might be attracted to animals or worse, sexual misconduct is not really a problem for many ordinary people.

everyone choses who can or can not be a partner...

compassionate_warrior

Girls like sex too. They're having sex for money. Like, that's easy money. Doing something you like anyways. I'm not saying it's always a good thing, but for some girls it's a better choice.

Please review Dakini's and Mountains' info about the sex trade.

robot

TJ- please take a wander down to the red light district in your town. You would see that most sex trade workers could not be a fast food server. How can you serve the public with a raging crack addiction? You really do need some real world experience.

TheJourney

Ok, there's a difference between a sex slave in an underground market and a prostitute. The prostitute's just gettin easy money. What could be easier than sex? They may do drugs too. What could be easier than just doin drugs havin sex?

compassionate_warrior

Firstly, it's common knowledge that women can take their pick of partners and men cannot.

It's not common "knowledge". Common misperception, yes.

compassionate_warrior

Ok, there's a difference between a sex slave in an underground market and a prostitute. The prostitute's just gettin easy money. What could be easier than sex? They may do drugs too. What could be easier than just doin drugs havin sex?

Most work for pimps, who take most of their money. The sex is degrading, they can get beaten, I really don't want to go on. Maybe you could read up on this, Journey?

robot

Ok, there's a difference between a sex slave in an underground market and a prostitute. The prostitute's just gettin easy money. What could be easier than sex? They may do drugs too. What could be easier than just doin drugs havin sex?

I repeat, go have a look.

TheJourney

And don't act like I don't have real world experience. You don't. I'm around crack somewhat often. Lol. I don't do it. But I know people who sell it and stuff and sometimes am around people that do it. It's not as black and white as you think.

Vincenzi

Ok, there's a difference between a sex slave in an underground market and a prostitute. The prostitute's just gettin easy money. What could be easier than sex? They may do drugs too. What could be easier than just doin drugs havin sex?

Most work for pimps, who take most of their money. The sex is degrading, they can get beaten, I really don't want to go on. Maybe you could read up on this, Journey?

Maybe the "defenders of prostitution" have a more idolized view on the subject... closer to the geisha (who were "paid, skillful companions" who can decide not to have sex).

robot

And don't act like I don't have real world experience. You don't. I'm around crack somewhat often. Lol. I don't do it. But I know people who sell it and stuff and sometimes am around people that do it. It's not as black and white as you think.

Gimme a break you are 19 and are on here almost every night. No offense intended but your posts above expose your inexperience.

compassionate_warrior

And don't act like I don't have real world experience. You don't. I'm around crack somewhat often. Lol. I don't do it. But I know people who sell it and stuff and sometimes am around people that do it. It's not as black and white as you think.

OK. We weren't condescending toward you, Journey. But it's not as simple and easy as you were making it out to be. I'm sure there are a few sex workers out there who manage their own clientele, consider themselves "high class", and charge accordingly, and MAYBE are in a position to pick and choose clients somewhat, and so don't have to put up with abuse. maybe they consider it a legit "career". But that would be a small minority.

TheJourney

And don't act like I don't have real world experience. You don't. I'm around crack somewhat often. Lol. I don't do it. But I know people who sell it and stuff and sometimes am around people that do it. It's not as black and white as you think.

OK. We weren't condescending toward you, Journey. But it's not as simple and easy as you were making it out to be. I'm sure there are a few sex workers out there who manage their own clientele, consider themselves "high class", and charge accordingly, and MAYBE are in a position to pick and choose clients somewhat, and so don't have to put up with abuse. maybe they consider it a legit "career". But that would be a small minority.

It doesn't have to be a career. Cashier isn't a career. But maybe they don't wanna work, they just wanna have sex and get money. Maybe they enjoy being degraded. Some girls do enjoy being degraded, you know. It's not even uncommon. Tons of girls like being submissive. Like, I know for a fact. It's just certain guys know how to put them in that submissive state but in a way that they like.

compassionate_warrior

:rolleyes:

This conversation isn't a power struggle, where you have to be right. If you want to continue, please do some research, and get back to us. Anyway, we're off-topic.

TheJourney

What does popular culture talk about? Havin sex doin drugs and gettin money. That's what some people like doing. They may(or more likely will not) realize it's a bad thing, but they like it in some ways cuz they keep doin it. You guys have no idea what you're talking about. You're not in the real world. I'm around drugs and that side of society all the time. They're no different than us. They're just lookin for happiness.

compassionate_warrior

Lookin for happiness in all the wrong places. In part because many of them were sexually abused as kids.

Maybe we should ask Federica. She said earlier on this thread that she knows several prostitutes.

TheJourney

It doesn't matter. I'm not the one making generalizations. We're all on that pursuit of happiness. We all fall short. We're not different, no matter how different our paths seem.

robot

TJ just so you know I had not even stopped shooting meth yet at 19 and I am certainly not saying that you need that type of experience. As I have said before you are doing great. But you have a lot to learn and it is harder when you think you have it all figured out.

TheJourney

I don't think I have anything figured out. There's nothing to figure out.

TheJourney

for real man. It says it all lol it's all out there right in plain sight just look listen.

Vincenzi

the only prostitution that has a slight semblance of good(enough)ness is if someone offers sensual services in exchange for money (like a "hypothetical" question), and both already know each other.

from a health perspective alone, it is just a vector for the spread of diseases; both mental and STDs.

federica

When it gets to bickering and personal jibes, then I know we're done here. We've gone so far off topic we're in danger of looking at our own shoulder-blades. Thanks to all who contributed.