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It has nothing to do with rebirth. Where are you getting rebirth from? There is no way other than the way. The way is just reality. Illusion, real, whatever. It's just what is. There is no way other than what is. Therefore there is no way possible other than what is. So if it is, then there was no other way. It had to be.
@TheJourney, When you say it just like that, it's as close as you can get to expressing reality in words (just about). But when you start saying things like a 14yo sex slave chose to be born and "her own" past lives are the reason she's a sex slave... then you go off the deep-end. Lose the self, and you're there. There's not ego and not-ego; ego is nothing more than wrong view of reality. Not-ego is right view of reality. It's not a thing in and of itself, and there can't be both at the same time. When you have right view, you don't have wrong view. When you have Nirvana, you don't have Samsara. When you have light, you don't have dark.
Whatever is, is. Things came to be of their own natural accord and they could not be otherwise unless the conditions themselves had been different.
Right. Individuality and ego is how we CHOOSE to experience reality. It's not that she chose to be a sex slave. It's that we chose to experience reality from a perspective, and therefore all perspectives that are had to be experienced, based on conditions, and it had to be experienced from a perspective. An ego. A person.
All is conditionality. Choice is then also conditioned. If ignorant of reality (the nature of all phenomena, including ourselves and our minds), we believe in such things as an individual "self" that is choosing. Ego. A "person". In reality there's no such thing. There is a way to be free from delusions and still use conceptual language to interact on a social level using such terms, but they are not real except as a social convention that is agreed upon for such usage.
Exactly. Man sometimes I almost get bored talking about the same stuff cuz we just repeat ourselves over and over. If you understand reality then you are only using the world as a conventional means.
I heard HHDL speak on this topic in response to a question, and he placed much emphasis on the "you" as described in the statement federica quoted above ... I wrote in my notes that this understanding is for personal reflection and personal growth ... not as a judgement tool for others. For example, many times others commented to me how unfair a situation was, especially that I had to experience it for a prolonged period of time ... indeed it was difficult in many ways. I could see how my actions had led me to be where I was, and there was no changing it, yet with this understanding my actions very much influenced the outcome ... to me it was karma ripening - others did not see it that way ... it wasn't for them to be concerned about.
I think I posted this in another thread some time ago - but since there seem to be more misunderstandings about karma being a punishment system, here it is again -because its worth knowing that the Buddha said we shouldn't speculate about the results of karma :
"There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?
"The Buddha-range of the Buddhas is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
"The jhana-range of a person in jhana...
"The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...
"Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
"These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."
This matter of past lives causing you to either suffer or have it easy in this life is something you'll have to wrestle with and decide what makes sense. Either you believe past karma is determinism, fate, or you don't. Either the young sex slave did something in past lives that put her in her current position, or it's just the result of being in the wrong place and the wrong time. Buddhists in Thailand actually do teach that the girl deserves her current suffering because of past lives. It's one way of forcing justice upon the world. Infection by karma as fate leads to passive Buddhists who shrug their shoulders and say, "That's the way the world is."
As long as you believe past lives have any bearing whatsoever on current lives, then any attempt to avoid or excuse the above situation is just solipsism and semantics. Buddhists, including the monks, have always struggled with rejecting the belief that karma is fate carried over from previous lives, because they want justice in the world and people cling to the idea that "I" lived some sort of past life in the first place. No, babies are not born tainted by past karma and destined to suffer because of it. If I had to believe that, I'd throw away every statue of Buddha I had and renounce every bit of the false dharma.
That sex slave is suffering today because sick men enjoy inflicting suffering on her, and because desperate, starving parents can be driven to actions we find sickening because we've never been faced with starvation. It has nothing to do with the girl somehow ending up in that whorehouse because of past lives. That's not what karma is in Buddhism.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
I've used the term before. It's still another separation though. "My" karma, "your" karma... collectively the "human-species karma", but really it's all connected. There are the conditions existing in each moment for all phenomena. Collective karma is a step in the right direction though.
I think that our experience of reality is so dynamic - and that if one is to experience one's life and one wants to base your life on Buddhist philosophy -
it is putting the understanding that comes from studying the teachings and reflecting on the meaning of the teachings into the art of observation.
@rainbowwarrior, Right. Don't "believe" the teachings; observe your life with the teachings in mind and see if they aren't true. The core of it all is IMHO "Anicca" or Impermanence, and that's more common sense than Buddhism. I think everyone's heard the line "the only thing that stays the same is everything changes", or song lyric if you like. Change is constant. If we can understand that, which is hard to miss, we can make the reasonable conclusion that our aversion to change is what causes our suffering. That's what makes the Four Noble Truths make sense to begin with.
The tough part is sticking with practice and reversing the effects of conditioning based on ignorance. Lessening attachment, discarding self-view, developing compassion in opposition to ill-will, lessening our cravings for sense pleasures... bit by bit. Meditation is a big help, likely a necessity.
Comments
Whatever is, is. Things came to be of their own natural accord and they could not be otherwise unless the conditions themselves had been different.
For example, many times others commented to me how unfair a situation was, especially that I had to experience it for a prolonged period of time ... indeed it was difficult in many ways. I could see how my actions had led me to be where I was, and there was no changing it, yet with this understanding my actions very much influenced the outcome ... to me it was karma ripening - others did not see it that way ... it wasn't for them to be concerned about.
"There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?
"The Buddha-range of the Buddhas is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
"The jhana-range of a person in jhana...
"The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...
"Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
"These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."
AN4.77
As long as you believe past lives have any bearing whatsoever on current lives, then any attempt to avoid or excuse the above situation is just solipsism and semantics. Buddhists, including the monks, have always struggled with rejecting the belief that karma is fate carried over from previous lives, because they want justice in the world and people cling to the idea that "I" lived some sort of past life in the first place. No, babies are not born tainted by past karma and destined to suffer because of it. If I had to believe that, I'd throw away every statue of Buddha I had and renounce every bit of the false dharma.
That sex slave is suffering today because sick men enjoy inflicting suffering on her, and because desperate, starving parents can be driven to actions we find sickening because we've never been faced with starvation. It has nothing to do with the girl somehow ending up in that whorehouse because of past lives. That's not what karma is in Buddhism.
I think that our experience of reality is so dynamic - and that if one is to experience one's life and one wants to base your life on Buddhist philosophy -
it is putting the understanding that comes from studying the teachings and reflecting on the meaning of the teachings into the art of observation.
The tough part is sticking with practice and reversing the effects of conditioning based on ignorance. Lessening attachment, discarding self-view, developing compassion in opposition to ill-will, lessening our cravings for sense pleasures... bit by bit. Meditation is a big help, likely a necessity.