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Do You Have a Love-Hate Relationship with Money?

edited February 2011 in Buddhism Today
Do you think spirituality and money can co-exist? How do you balance the two without tipping the scale? Do you secretly hate money, thinking it's evil, but yet can't do without it?

Personally, I'm still trying to come to terms with the pre-conditioned concept that money is evil.

Would love to hear personal stories and advice, if any. No right or wrong answers. Just healthy sharing of personal experiences. Thank you. May we grow together through this sharing.

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I think you're thinking of the Biblical (mis)quotation -
    "Money is the root of all evil."

    That's completely inaccurate.
    The correct quotation is:
    THE LOVE of money, is the root of all evil.
    It puts a completely different slant on things and as such, changes your question fundamentally from one of avarice to one dealing with attachment.
  • edited February 2011
    Money has nothing to do with spirituality. Except, possibly, when you use it as a tool to serve spiritual values, such as building monasteries or shrines, funding projects to empower the poor, etc. Otherwise it's just something you pay your bills with. Not a big deal, unless you make it one, by becoming attached.
  • I don't think money is evil. I agree with federica that it's our relationship and assumptions about money that may need some examination. But for example, I gotta eat. It's either I barter with some gold pennies and apples, or I hand over some cash.

    Best wishes,
    Abu
  • edited February 2011
    I gotta eat. It's either I barter with some gold pennies and apples, or I hand over some cash.
    OR, you could grow your own food, maybe save up for a nice rural plot in france, do it up, and i bet you would like that.. I know I would.
    ----

    On topic.. money can mean power and power can lead to corruption, at least that's what they say!
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    (I always wonder who these mysterious 'they', are....!)

    The quotation I think you might be thinking of, again, goes:
    "Power Corrupts.
    Absolute Power, corrupts absolutely."
  • Floating_AbuFloating_Abu Veteran
    edited February 2011
    I gotta eat. It's either I barter with some gold pennies and apples, or I hand over some cash.
    OR, you could grow your own food, maybe save up for a nice rural plot in france, do it up, and i bet you would like that.. I know I would.
    ----

    On topic.. money can mean power and power can lead to corruption, at least that's what they say!
    haha Yeah I think a lot of people have that fantasy but it's actually hard work and no guarantees and oft a lot of capital invested. Check out shows, there are a few in Britain and even Australia I think which cover people "moving to the country" so to speak. I'm not really sure those fantasies or dreams actually quite measure up in a lot of instances but who knows.

    Anyway I think the reality is, and I speak for myself too, we all have our little fantasies but what is true, is what an old friend muga used to say - "Wherever you go there you are" so we first work on straightening our own minds.

    On topic of money, yes I believe to a degree it can and does. When the carrot is in front of your nose, well, here comes our greed and material ambitions. Whatmore it's completely normal.

    I rather like Buddhism because however it clarifies who this self is, the one that wants the money and is scared etc etc.

    I am not exempt. But I can see the power of Buddhist practice, so to speak.

    Namaste.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    I do!
    But I am learning that money is just like any other tool.
    It has a purpose it can destroy or it can help improve ones situation and improve everyones situation by using it correctly.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    I gotta eat. It's either I barter with some gold pennies and apples, or I hand over some cash.
    OR, you could grow your own food, maybe save up for a nice rural plot in france, do it up, and i bet you would like that.. I know I would.
    ----

    On topic.. money can mean power and power can lead to corruption, at least that's what they say!
    You could, but it does depend where you live.
    Here in California a few acres cost an arm and a leg.
    I say split the land with a family or friends.
  • Money has no inherent qualities. It's just like anything else that you can become attached to. It only has power if you let it. I don't deny that it's nicer to some degree to have an adequate amount (ah, "adequate", there's the rub!). As I get older, and possibly even a tiny scintilla wiser, my definitions of "adequate", "need", and "required" have changed dramatically. There are still things I enjoy, and activities I enjoy doing, that all cost money. But thank goodness I've reset a lot of my "need" and "want" baselines.
  • Yes agree but I also think about my family, caring for them, taking care if they ever may need anything. That's what I worry about too. I can do with little-er but for health etc, well, I love them.
  • And again no I don't hate money. It is what it is.

    Bless,
    Abu.
  • I do!
    But I am learning that money is just like any other tool.
    It has a purpose it can destroy or it can help improve ones situation and improve everyones situation by using it correctly.
    You got it, Leon; it's just a tool. With spiritual values behind it, it can move humanity forward. With worldly values behind it, it can destroy. For most of us, it's just something to pay the bills with.

  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited February 2011
    Money is neutral. We all need it. For me, the issue is about how we use it & relate to it.

    The Buddha himself praised the accumulation of wealth by laypeople, as long as they do not acquire it using violence; use it for beneficial purposes; are not blindly infatuated with it; and see the danger of it (SN 42.12; no link).

    The Buddha said poverty is one of the worst sufferings and said having wealth, having money to spend, being free from debt & having a blameless livelihood is happiness on the material level.

    (see link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.062.than.html)

    Kind regards

    :)
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    I agree with Federica. Its not money thats bad, its the love of money thats bad.

    My family has a good amount of money for the area I live in. We have a lot of luxuries, but we all agree that if you're not happy with little to nothing (my family has been through that), you won't be happy with a lot of money.

    So we do like having money, but it doesn't control us or our emotions.
  • chariramacharirama Veteran
    edited February 2011
    The problem that I have with money, or the influence that it can have over people, is that it can take the humanity out of being human.

    I felt really bad for Tony Hayward, the six million dollar man, when he went before the US congress and showed how a CEO can completely cast aside his own humanity in an effort to tow the company line. It was obvious to me that he was hurting inside while he made sure he would not say anything that would increase BP's potential financial liability - even if it meant compromising the search for the truth.
  • I think if I loved money I would have worked a lot in my life, but I chose to work only enough to support myself. I loved my freedom. I don't think having money makes you a bad person, after all, the more you have the more you can give. Hey, you can support the economy by spending, but mostly you can support your sangha or even help people in need.

    And yet at the same time I would love to have more money. I would like to travel the world and have a house in different countries, but like I said, I never had enough ambition to make it. Maybe I, too, was brought up with the idea that the love of money was the root of all evil. Yet, I don't think it is the root of all evil. I think greed is.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    The problem that I have with money, or the influence that it can have over people, is that it can take the humanity out of being human.

    I felt really bad for Tony Hayward, the six million dollar man, when he went before the US congress and showed how a CEO can completely cast aside his own humanity in an effort to tow the company line. It was obvious to me that he was hurting inside while he made sure he would not say anything that would increase BP's potential financial liability - even if it meant compromising the search for the truth.
    Exactly!!
  • Thank you federica, ownerof1000oddsocks, Mountains, Floating Abu, compassionate warrior, Dhamma Dhatu, MindGate, chari rama, Thao, LeonBasin and those who are about to share for all the wisdom. I'm very blessed to hear from each of you. The link that Dhamma Dhatu is also very enlightening too. You should take a look if you haven't read it before.

    For me, I used to make a comfortable sum of money but I wasn't happy. So, I pared down my lifestyle and went right down to the basic. But, it could be a little extreme and after 2 years the heart is yearning for more material comfort. So, internally, there's a struggle going on. Hence, this thread.

    While I know that money is only a tool and that attachment to money is dangerous, when the rubber hits the road, I'm often pull back by the greed to have more, or the fear of losing. So obviously, the knowledge I have remains only at a mental level and hasn't permeate into my blood and bones yet. There's still a lot of letting go to do. :)

    Take care.
  • edited February 2011
    Money is merely an intermediary or means of exchanging the labor value intrinsic in the goods or services I provide for the labor value that exists alongside another good or service that I need or desire. I think when you have an unquenchable desire and love for the material goods that money buys and the power and command that a massive accumulation of it has in acting as leverage and control over the labor activities of those that have less of it, that's when it can become a very bad thing. I think money's pretty much neutral. I don't really love or hate it. I just despise certain contexts that its used in. Money is what its always been, symbolism. Its been the case, even when it was made up of precious metals. However, its more apparent now than ever, when the legal tender is based directly on abstract concepts having to do with the comparative values of national labor pools and when its made up of useless materials that only governments, the stock exchange, the corporate entities behind the stocks, and the international currency exchange say has any practical value. I think the current context is very perverse, in the way that globalized, liberal markets dictate that factory work in Indonesia or coal mining in Chile is worth far less than the work that a stock broker does in New York, let alone the very same activities in any "developed" economy. Its really just a way of undermining wages in every country ultimately. When they play the whole numbers game of devaluing currency in a third world country, its a way for corporations to ship jobs out of more well to do economies and to ultimately underpay workers everywhere. Its also a way for politicians to blame the working and collapsing middle class for wanting to have a decent lifestyle. "Oh if we just remain competitive with Indonesia (work 14 hours a day for less than 2 dollars to make shoes with no workman's comp, social security, or safety standards), then we can build our industry back up". Its all a sick joke really.


  • Here's Joe Roan talking about materialism. Mind you, there's some swearing in it, and the hosts are kind of annoying at parts. Its very interesting though, and he's a good speaker. Its the dude from Fear factor fyi.
  • Living comfortable and making money is not bad. Not only does it make your life easier, if you have a large amount you can use it to help others if you are so inclined.

    Im my personal view, when one is willing to destroy people's lives, the enviorment, or anything else in your way to make more money, it is negative. This sort of "Money Worship" is negative and greedy, which brings loads of bad karma with it. The point of life is not to make money and look down on those without it.

  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    I think if I loved money I would have worked a lot in my life, but I chose to work only enough to support myself. I loved my freedom. I don't think having money makes you a bad person, after all, the more you have the more you can give. Hey, you can support the economy by spending, but mostly you can support your sangha or even help people in need.

    And yet at the same time I would love to have more money. I would like to travel the world and have a house in different countries, but like I said, I never had enough ambition to make it. Maybe I, too, was brought up with the idea that the love of money was the root of all evil. Yet, I don't think it is the root of all evil. I think greed is.
    i'm in the same boat. every once in a while, someone will criticize my sales techniques by comparing me to more eager coworkers. the thing is, i know i could push myself and make more money (and kill myself physically), but the fact is that i do well, i'm happy and content with what i make and if someone wants my services, they will let me know. i'm not going to push myself on anyone. i think that my sense of "enough" must be different than other people's.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    For my money, money is like any other belief system ... best not to put too much faith in it.
  • For my money, money is like any other belief system ... best not to put too much faith in it.
    Really genkaku? When I look around at my work I think everyone is there for the money and basically climbing cos it's better money etc. You really think it's not that important?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited February 2011
    Not important, no.
    Unfortunately necessary for day-to-day interaction with others, yes - but Important?


    No.
  • Quote time again: 'when the last tree has been cut down and the last fish caugh from the ocean we will realize we cannot eat money!' :-(

    I wonder if Federica knows where that one came from?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited February 2011
    Yes, I do, as a matter of fact. being a quotations collector, it is something I have come across.
    It's a Cree Indian saying.
    It's beautifully profound. And a lot of Indian sayings are worthy of note.
  • edited February 2011
    We live in a consumer society here in the USA. We have a particular culture which is impossible to ignore fully. Money is part of it. Actual money is part of it. Symbolic money (perceived status and power) is also.

    Does Buddhism tell us to renounce the culture we live in if it is based on keeping track of material obligations to each other? I dunno. Attachment to material goods? I like some of that stuff around me.

    Good question though.

    The answer, "The Middle Way."

    If I have a fancy homes and luxury cars and when I die I plan to bequeath most all my assents to local Buddhist sangha, is THAT ok?

    I was told early on there is "no guilt in Buddhism." TorF? Money and Guilt? Good issue. :)

    One more thing: Maybe $$$ guys like Bill Gates have good Karma from past lives! Good for him!
  • For my money, money is like any other belief system ... best not to put too much faith in it.
    Really genkaku? When I look around at my work I think everyone is there for the money and basically climbing cos it's better money etc. You really think it's not that important?
    Clearly, it's not important to genkaku, nor to a number of people here at NB. It is what you make of it. One has a choice. The people where you work have made the choice to grasp at money. Genkaku has chosen to be unattached. It's all about how you choose to relate to money.

  • money is just a tool, I will prefer a different way of surviving that doesn't needs money... but it exists and (specially since theres few "open space" potable water) it is "good enough".

    this is not true but: "yes, I have a love-hate relationship with money. I love money and money hates me!"
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