Need some help concerning being a monk...

Zayl

Well, let me summarize my situation. I Live in Midland, Michigan. To my knowledge, there are few... if any... Monasteries nearby. Now, I have no mode of transportation other than walking or riding a bike. Thus moving around is pretty much limited to the warm months. I desperately wish to live a monastic life, but I am well aware of the fact that I need quite a bit of experience doing so before I can ever come to that decision. I don't just want to run out and become a monk, instead I wish to spend time at multiple monasteries if possible, and spend a good deal of time mulling over if this is what I really, really want or not.

I also live within a rather spiritually dead region of the nation, and when I have been asked what I want to do with my life people react as if I said "I want to cut off my arm and eat it" when I say I am considering being a monk. I cannot expect any help from the people immediately around me, so I am pretty much on my own. I have toyed with the notion of being a renunciate and homeless, but chances are I will just be arrested for vagrancy.

I really don't know what to do here, I am getting rather exasperated with my situation, ironically enough it is my desire to give up desire that is causing my suffering, and that is just my luck.

Help.

Sabre

Hi Zayl,

I had the same feeling very, very strong after some insights I had and I know others on this board did had or have them too. You surely aren't the only one who experienced such feelings. I also wanted to run away, monastry or not.

You can read my thread I opened in a desperate moment:
http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/9121/former-monks-i-need-your-help/p1

Further on in the thread I explained what happened and why I have other reasons why I choose to live a lay-life, at least for the next few years. It's no torture or something, I can enjoy it even more now in a way.

Because you know, even these strong tendencies will fade out. And spirituality is everywhere because it is inside our very nature. So you can also find it outside of a monastry. I know sometimes it feels a bit lonely. The Buddha did emphasize the need for spiritual friends for a reason. Isn't there a sangha anywhere around? You can also find support in various spiritual writers and there must be other spiritual persons around. They don't have to be buddhist to have a nice conversation. And if you want you can always send me a personal message.

But in the end, every moment can be a happy moment so just like me, you'll be fine. Good luck and remember your breath is your best friend

Sabre

Zayl

Thank you.

I will take a look through that thread for some few answers. There is a Sangha near me in the Theravada tradition (near as in, the same state) and I have contacted the monks there in an attempt to organize a retreat, where I may participate in the duties the monks there have, if they will allow me. While I am more of the Zen tradition myself, this will still give me a good idea of what it is like, as well as be a great learning experience in general.

And honestly, there are not too many spiritual people in my town at all, the few that are are pretty much fundamentalist Christians who are polite, but still take every chance possible to proselytize, and there is no hope of a real conversation.

Sabre

Hey Zahl,

You won't find any answers in that thread, but you might use it as a kind of support. I wrote it in a very mindfull state so pardon me for some strange things I may have said, because that was also very confusing at times. Anyway, I feel comfortable again now so I know you can too.

Just take the opportunity to try out what it's like to live a purely spiritual life if you can and in the meantime just enjoy the time you have. You can always practice and be kind to people, spread some good karma around at every opportunity you get. Set that as your new goal in life. It will really help.

Anyway, Zen/Therevada, whatever. Basically the same thing. There can only be one kind of enlightenment anyway.

Vangelis

Hi Zayl,

You should be able to stay at the Theravadin monastery for long periods of time. I once stayed there with a friend over the weekend (had to go to work on Monday) but there was one guy there who had been there for a year as a lay person but had not yet decided if he was going to ordain. Ask the monks if you can stay on the premises for a few months. They should be ok with that and it will give you a good insight into the monastic life and whether it's the right path for you.

Metta,

Vangelis

zombiegirl

before you pack up and take off for the monastery, have you ever thought of just moving to another location? i'm assuming that a job is not an issue for you. detroit is not very far and it really does have a plethora of buddhist centers. living in an area with a bus system might also help those winter months

Zayl

Actually, my state has the worst job market in the nation, and Detroit is mostly abandoned (literally abandoned, half of it is practically a ghost town) so a job is a huge problem, I've held varied jobs before but they never last long, and the one I currently work is trying to force me to quit by giving me lousy hours that are few and far-between.

At this rate I may have no choice in the matter, and homelessness may be my fate.

zombiegirl

Actually, my state has the worst job market in the nation, and Detroit is mostly abandoned (literally abandoned, half of it is practically a ghost town) so a job is a huge problem, I've held varied jobs before but they never last long, and the one I currently work is trying to force me to quit by giving me lousy hours that are few and far-between.

At this rate I may have no choice in the matter, and homelessness may be my fate.

i meant leaving a job wouldn't be a problem since you didn't mention such.

detroit isn't so bad, lol. you should check out some of the 'burbs. i live in ferndale, myself and absolutely adore this city (and detroit, actually). rent's decent and the area's nice. but you know, some of the areas around wayne state aren't too bad either. my gf and i were looking at these two places when we moved here. the downtown region is actually experiencing a mini revival because of all the artsy college kids and cheap loft space, you know...

3 part mini documentary by johnny knoxville about the D called "Detroit Lives":


but anyways, all of this may be beside the point. i was merely trying to suggest an alternative to shipping off to a monastery.

ThailandTom

I have gone through the phase of wanting to leave lay life behind and get rid of EVERYTHING, I presume that many of us have. I have wanted to go on self retreats and have been to stay with monks at a local temple. The thing is, you do not HAVE to be a monk to be buddhist and you do not need to be a monk to lead a happy life. However, the buddha did say that some people will not be able to live a life as a monk and gave advice for the lay people, but for others the way of the monk is more suitable. Maybe you should go and try it out for a week or so and see what you think rather than jumping in at the deep end.

There is that saying, if you have shit in your pocket, wherever you go it will still smell...

being

I would also recommend you to go for a retreat, before you decide anything.
http://www.dhamma.org/ is a great site for 10-day Vipassana meditation courses all over the world.

Zayl

Maybe its a phase, maybe not. I won't know unless I explore it.

Sabre

Most important is to live by the day. You can be very happy in lay life. In fact my life is very easy since the topic I mentioned before.

A little bit too easy..

zombiegirl

I have gone through the phase of wanting to leave lay life behind and get rid of EVERYTHING, I presume that many of us have. I have wanted to go on self retreats and have been to stay with monks at a local temple. The thing is, you do not HAVE to be a monk to be buddhist and you do not need to be a monk to lead a happy life. However, the buddha did say that some people will not be able to live a life as a monk and gave advice for the lay people, but for others the way of the monk is more suitable. Maybe you should go and try it out for a week or so and see what you think rather than jumping in at the deep end.

There is that saying, if you have shit in your pocket, wherever you go it will still smell...

i have gone through these phases as well. usually, it's a relationship that keeps me from jumping ship and i guess, it still is sort of my "back up plan" should my relationship fail. but in all honesty, i'm not sure that i would ever actually do it. i feel as though i have a very unrealistic idea of what it might be like.

i like the saying about shit in your pockets, lol. that's a new one to me.

ThailandTom

lol, I think I read it on here a long time ago actually. Or maybe it was one of ajahn brahms quotes, he occasionally swears and curses in his talks to hit his message home.
The life of a monk was a back up plan of mine if I failed here in thailand and ended up broke/homeless. The things holding me back are relationships and the idea of getting my head shaved. You would also have to get yours shaved as well. I have met a few nuns here in thailand, they look pretty similar.

Vangelis

I have met a few nuns here in thailand, they look pretty similar.

Hehe and that's the whole idea. Sometimes I have to double-take to see whether it's a monk or nun I'm looking at. Doesn't matter in the bigger scheme of things.

ThailandTom

Yea, it really doesn't matter what you look like in their view and a true buddhist view, but main stream society for the vast majority probably would have a thing or two to say about it. The nuns I have met though are so kind and are always smiling, I can tell they are nuns because they dress in white robes and not orange

hermitwin

You can live like a monk without becoming a monk. Its not easy though, I think they have keep 222 precepts instead of 5. Try keeping 10 precepts for a start.

Zayl

Well after quite a bit of thinking and a lot of reflection. I have decided to not become a monk... or at the very least, to postpone it for many decades. My reasons behind this are strictly my own, and even though I feel the way I do, I apply it only to myself and to no one else. I feel that if I become a monk I will become fundamentally crippled. What I mean by this is you know how the Buddha lived a life of utter luxury, and it left him spiritually wounded? I feel that if I were to become a monk without experiencing human life as it can be then I will be crippled in much the same way, but to another extreme. Not to the extreme of Siddhartha's Asceticism, But the extreme of the "middle way" if this makes any sense...

To me, it is somewhat necessary to live how I can, to experience whatever I can. This to me means traveling the world as much as I can, loving as much as I can, enjoying as much as I can. Perhaps after a while of this I may settle into a monastic life, but I just do not think I could ever reach enlightenment if I do not truly know what being human means to me. And I do apologize if it seems if I am rambling... but this is my decision. The good news is that I have found the resolve to do this. I have lived nearly all of my life in a shiftless stupor, never really knowing what I want to do. I always come up with an idea of some sort on what I want to do, but I find that I want to do it just for the sake of doing it, and that is not right.

I will of course still live mindfully, and do proper practice where appropriate... but I need to find the real me, and it is going to be one hell of a quest to do so, but I know that it is the right thing to do. I am going to undergo physical fitness training, and I will begin to learn as many different languages as I can. For once in my life I actually feel the resolve needed to do such a thing, before it was always just a passing interest at best when it came to what I want to do with my life. I have never felt this way before, it feels natural for me.

And I do not mean to offend anyone with what I have said, I apply everything written here to me, and only to me. And I would never dream of looking down on another's way of life as anything less than my own. We all live equally valid lifestyles, and I now know that this is my path in life.

I feel so happy.

hermitwin

At some point, you will find that ordinary life no longer satisfy you.

Zayl

At some point, you will find that ordinary life no longer satisfy you.

Possibly, but I cannot take your word for it. I need to find that out myself.

being

I feel so happy.

This too shall pass.[/party-pooping]

^_^

DhammaDhatu

I really don't know what to do here, I am getting rather exasperated with my situation, ironically enough it is my desire to give up desire that is causing my suffering, and that is just my luck.

There are monastaries in the USA and Canada. For example:

http://www.forestsangha.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=10&Itemid=9

All the best

Zayl

I feel so happy.

This too shall pass.[/party-pooping]

^_^

Maybe, possibly. But how can I ever set myself upon a path without learning lessons for myself? that is what I am trying to get across here.

Sabre

Hey Zayl,

Nice to see you made up your mind.

A lot of progress on the path is possible in lay life, don't give up your practice. Remember in the suttas there are a lot of mentions about lay persons reaching stages of enlightenment and this is still happening today I've heard teachers say.

Let life take you where it wants you to. Each day is a new day and you never know what's going to happen next. So planning decades ahead is not very useful. When in doubt, follow your heart instead of your thoughts.

I'll personally probably leave lay life in one way or the other one day for a while, but for now lay life itself is also a good teacher. Monastic life isn't about doing nothing and having fun, it's very tough so I'd better prepare myself while I can.

And some of the lessons in lay life taught me more than my meditation.

PeaceandLove

Save up and move somewhere that will "apprentice" you to be a monk?? I'm sure you could afford a bus ticket.. How much money do you think you would need?

Palzang

You made a good choice, Zayl. It is so much better to learn what life is all about before rushing off to become a monk and then discovering that it's not for you. It is very bad karma to drop your robes and vows after you take them, so better to take a big draught of life first to see what is best for you. That said, there are at least two Zen monasteries I know of that you might want to check out at some point. Both have programs where you can live there for a time as a monk without actually taking the vows. One is Shasta Abbey in Mt. Shasta, California. I spent a short time there in the early '70s and have been back since for a Western Buddhist Ordained retreat. It's a great place with excellent monks. The other is Zen Mountain Monastery in Mt. Tremper, NY. Both are excellent.

Palzang

hermitwin

'It is very bad karma to drop your robes and vows after you take them'
Is this true? or just an opinion.
I dont think there is anything wrong with disrobing when you no longer
wish to be a monk.