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compassion....
ZendoLord84
Veteran
I'm a lay buddhist, 27 now, started to practise when I was around 20.
Throughout the years i've learned a lot about the human nature, ego, karmatic consequense of our acting, being patient, kindness etc. etc.
Lately i've found a border, a line, and when it's crossed i'm having difficulty being kind and compassionate. That's when, the karma created by people, and their acting, are coming directly in my life, and I have to clean it up, come to the rescue, fix it.
People whine and moan, complaining life is so hard on them, stuff is not fair etc. But the refuse to work on it, and better yet, they bother me with it, the same people that often are looking down on me, calling me boring, weird etc. The same people who come for help when they are in trouble, and five minutes later they forget I ever helped, either by words or by action.
I know I need to meditate on this and practise more compassion,
But it can make me so angry every now and then.
I'm finding it difficult to show compassion for people who stumble around blind making the same mistakes over and over again, but instead of accepting their own way of acting, they start b$^&*(#$ about it.
Some advice, insights, tips?
Throughout the years i've learned a lot about the human nature, ego, karmatic consequense of our acting, being patient, kindness etc. etc.
Lately i've found a border, a line, and when it's crossed i'm having difficulty being kind and compassionate. That's when, the karma created by people, and their acting, are coming directly in my life, and I have to clean it up, come to the rescue, fix it.
People whine and moan, complaining life is so hard on them, stuff is not fair etc. But the refuse to work on it, and better yet, they bother me with it, the same people that often are looking down on me, calling me boring, weird etc. The same people who come for help when they are in trouble, and five minutes later they forget I ever helped, either by words or by action.
I know I need to meditate on this and practise more compassion,
But it can make me so angry every now and then.
I'm finding it difficult to show compassion for people who stumble around blind making the same mistakes over and over again, but instead of accepting their own way of acting, they start b$^&*(#$ about it.
Some advice, insights, tips?
0
Comments
Maybe they should fix you? From not feeling at ease?
That being said there is nothing wrong with an intention to fix people even if it is frustrating or difficult so I am not saying that THAT is wrong.
It is hard to do sometimes has you have pointed out, but the untamed, ignorant mind takes a long time to change as it is so conditioned. I refer to your friends, those who come to you and never seem to change their ways. They are ignorant, they do not know the right path and continue to stumble into suffering. If they do not take your advice then so be it, that is their choice an you should accept this.
You said that they call you boring yet they still come to you for advice. Try to drop your ego here and let their words pass you by like a soft summers breeze. They come to you with their problems for a reason, if you remain calm, compassionate and yourself, in time they will come around to this and may realize their mistakes in life.
I should practise compassion ánd acceptance then
It says something is wrong.
I don’t know what it is, but you need to take a look at it, not judge yourself over it.
Maybe people simply ask too much from you and you need to learn to say “no”.
Maybe it is you, who is asking too much from yourself, and you need to learn to stop being so demanding.
Remember compassion is never a burden, it is one of the happy, boundless states of mind; the brahmavihara. It includes taking good care of you.
That’s just my 2ct.
thank you all.
let's specify my starting question/situation to a real life experience.
I don't drink, do drugs, don't smoke cigarettes etc. It is my personal choice, inspired by the fifth precept. There it started, but i've grown to understand the reason why not to indulge in toxic substances that make our view of reality...well.....less.
My partner however, whom I love dearly, get's completely hammered every once in a while. When we first started dating and stuff I would come and watch her and her friends lose all grip of themselves. I don't mean a little tipsy, I mean completely throwing-up-drewling-not-able-to-stand-or-walk-drunk. She is a bad drunk, who get's angry with me for no reason, calling me names or talking me down.She confuses me and sometimes scares me a bit, because the girl I love is just NOT there at the moment.
So, i've drawn a line about a year ago,
This is were I feel comfortable, and no further.
Meaning, I go out too,with her, but there comes a time everybody just get's too wasted, so I leave. Group pressure to stay or to become part of their beheaviour doesn't work, I calmly say no, each and every time, sometimes I have to repeat myself more then ten times LOL, but that's oke.
So, i've acted responsibily, accepting others, being compassionate, while maintaining my own pace of life.
But here comes the tricky part.
She will come home at three, four o'clock. So hammered she can't walk or talk. Noisy and trashing through the house. Waking me up, while I have to get up early to work and make a living (she's a student). But even worse, she is so sick of her own acting wich is drinking way to much, she laying next to me crying, whailing and rolling around out of pure agony.
And this keeps on happening periodically. Also followed by the vow of never doing it again.
It's a lot easier to accept and be compassionate about other peoples self-inflicted karmatic consequences,
But when someone you love keeps on doing this, time after time after time again, and telling me (LITTERALY), she doesn't want help or wisdom from me, but on the other hand keeping me awake crying like a little girl.
I just get angry.
At first I took care of here, cleaning her vomit, giving her water, comforting her, now I just let her be,
next time i'll go and sleep on the couch, so she can get what she wants(samsara)and I can get my sleep. Without falling into judging or anger partly caused by sleep deprivation the next day....
I know I have to keep practising, it's the only way, also in general,
Sorry to hear about the troubles, I would tell her to grow up. But as I need to grow up myself, sometimes that is not so easy.
The word of compassion can be so tricky to navigate, I wish you the best.
if she was doing this a couple of times per week I would break up with her.
that's easy beacause
it's just not what i'm looking for in a partner.
however even once a month can be difficult sometimes.
No, that's what not what I meant.
And what you are implying does not feel like the solution at all.
No offence, but that just seems like the easy way out.
-Getting out of the relationship (which is not what you want)
- Making the best of it
The way to make to best of it is to accept the other person (her behavior) and not constantly blame here. Couples blaming each other all the time live in a very special little hell of their own.
At the other hand, don’t clean up her vomit. She can do that herself when she’s sober again.
Keep your own life comfortable and don’t be a doormat.
Let HER sleep on the couch.
Again just 2ct. of a person who’s life is not perfect either.
I can understand why SheraDorje's observation could seem like a manipulation of wording, rather than a particular insight, but some of what he's pointing at seems quite relevant.
Often people who are co-dependent attempt to "make it fit" when it does not. It is the mental/emotional equivalent of attempting to make our hand not hurt while we put it onto the hot flames. As though there is some kind of mental loopty-loop we can perform, grit our teeth, smile, force compassion...
The solution is always to remove the hand from the stove, its hot... duh! This doesn't mean break up with her, but realize the two of you have incompatible views, and either harmonize them through a mutual commitment (stop drinking, or perhaps she can sleep on the couch when indulging, so as not to disturb you) or move along. If she is caught in patterns of addiction, perhaps there are many other incompatible views?
If you have the urge to fix someone else, that is the essence of co-dependance. How much tension arises when we want to help people that do not want help! How much pain arises when we attempt to restructure another's karmic dance!
Good luck,
Matt
'If you have the urge to fix someone else, that is the essence of co-dependance'
thank you for this insight.
I wrote this in my last reply
'next time i'll go and sleep on the couch, so she can get what she wants(samsara)and I can get my sleep. Without falling into judging or anger partly caused by sleep deprivation the next day....
That honestly feels like a good solution to me. We have big couches that are very confy. Besides, arguing with a drunk person just doesn't work. Forcing her on the couch feels like going into a powerstruggle (ego) and that only fuels the fire.
I know her a bit by now, and it proberly works out better then fighting over who get's the sleep were, because she DOES love me, that's for sure.
does this make any sense?
Normally i'm pretty selfconfident, but I really need input here
Good luck!
I would just drop any idea of change and have a sense of humour about her vomit without any idea that she shouldn't be vomiting. Another thing you might want to think of is who knows what she is doing while wasted so use condoms.
That itself has been a lesson.
thank you all.
I can say this because I've experienced exactly what you have:
I have two friends that just call me to talk about their problems. I stopped picking up their calls. They got the idea and stopped being spoiled brats.
I have a girlfriend who likes to go out, party and get drunk and I don't. Today she was forcing me to go to a club, I told her multiple times that I did not want to. She got angry. That's her karma. Remember, if people love you they'll let you be who you are, not force you to be someone you aren't. They probably also won't get mad if you don't do what they tell you to do. Don't get pushed around, this world is rough.
So be intelligent, be confident in your morals and show some tough love sometimes. If you're not causing any harm to anybody, nobody should force you to do anything and neither should you feel guilty about not doing it, OK?
Man up bro, you're in charge of your own life.
i don't go to clubs...
i don't drink alcohol or indulge in drugs or sigs to please anyone.
i don't hold her purse or go shopping with her...
i'm giving her enough tough love.
i'm everything but easy...
my original post started broad.
i specified it to a personal situation to get more insight.
that does not mean i lie crying in my bed every night or something about it.
i'm trying to go beyond just saying NO, and piss my girlfriend off.
'that's her karma' does not suffice because she is more to me then just karma, she is my partner whom I love dearly. i'm not a romantic fool. Love can be painfull, hurtfull and very close to hate. It can be suffering, like life. I made the choice to deal with this stuff by NOT becoming a monk but by staying into society and everyday as a lay-buddhist.
Forcing her into my ways of peace and tranquility would be as egocentric as her forcing me into drinking. I'm trying to find a way to co-exist and still be one. Ying and Yang.
that's all.
Nothing more nothing less.
not anwsering calls from your friend does not sound like the right solution to me.
i've been there till I was all alone. not my style.
I respect that sleeping on the couch doesn't seem like that big of a behavioral shift, and is a simple solution. It seems to me to be a co-dependent solution, because it is you paying the toll. It is not "egolessness"... self-less compassion is often direct and un-compromising.
In my opinion, it sounds like fear that would drive you onto the couch! If you were genuine in your acceptance of her, and well rooted in letting her learn her own lessons (and considered her capable of paying them!) then doesn't it seem more like you would let her sleep on the couch of her own making... our of respect for her? If it is a lesson she needs to learn, don't cheat her out of that lesson by trying to take on its responsibilities yourself!
"I understand you like to party, but would you say that sleeping on the couch after you come home loud and sick seems like a fair thing for you to do? You know how I need my sleep." Does she love you, really? On her side of things, are your needs/wants/desires respected? Why would it be a fight? If she wanted to party, and you wanted to sleep, wouldn't it be a normal and natural thing for her to party somewhere else? Do you think this can be approached from a standpoint of non-aggression on both sides?
With warmth,
Matt
@ravkes...
it's not been my intend to lash at you out of anger.
I get frustrated sometimes when a point i'm trying to make doesn't come across. That has nothing to do with you, you read my words and you react on it. That's totally normal and understandable. I come from a family where I just had to shut up and get good grades, a good job etc. The points that I tried to make were never heard or never taken seriously. I'm working on this stuff, it goes deep and has scarred my 'being'. (there's more but this is enough for now).
Furthmore i'm just an...intense....person...I speak loud and fast, with emotion, waving my hands, I could blend in straight away with italians haha. Especially when it comes to serieus conversations and discussions. I'm quite the debator but online it doesn't come out that good. Without buddhism my personallity would have gotten me in lot more trouble then it has gotten me now
So it's all good.
@jeffrey
I know I seek appreciation sometimes. Read my reaction above to ravkes, the part about my upbringing. I'm not some sad little cry baby that dwells in things long gone, but it has its effect on me in present time sometimes. I want to be heard. Want to be taken serious. Respect.
'If she were to get drunk and break an object, would you consider it proper to pay the restitution?'
yes ofcourse....i've broken a window once in a argument with her a year ago or something. I paid for it,, cause I broke it yeah. I expect her to do the same.
*******************
Now about her being drunk.
I think I have to write a post to clarify a bit more about her behaviour and my responses to it. , or just leave it at his because the digital barrier is too big to specify little details that are important.
It will consider what to do.....
My mother is a severe alcoholic and I no longer have contact with her. That may not sound very compassionate, but I look at it this way: I can participate in her negative behavior and argue with her and let it bring me down and slowly kill me, which it was doing, or I can take a step back and let her live her life. I spent 30 years trying to "fix her". I can't fix her. I have to simply understand that fact and let go. It's something that is very hard for me, I'm a people pleaser to a fault.
Sometimes the compassionate thing to do is step out of a situation and perhaps that will give her a wake up call, or perhaps not. But at least you will be doing the best you can, which is to not endorse it, and to take care of yourself.
It's hard to be your best when someone close to you is destructive.
I wish you the very best.
I feel that way too. I suggested meditating on your need for respect because it will clarify how you feel. You have a lot of anger in my opinion and it is VERY hard to deal skillful with anger. If you let it out it leads to fighting and chaos in the home (been there done that) and if you hold it in it leads to depression (been there done that).
One of the best remedies is to examine our beliefs such as need for appreciation and respect. Sometimes you get a clean mindful release of anger like a bright hot knife of clarity that is not wound in with a situation to cause chaos or else repressed and distorted into a view of despair and a sense of 'wrong self' or 'wrong world' or 'wrong compassion' or whatever.
If you are lucky the emotion will completely burn itself up or at least diffuse and even if this is or isn't the right girl for you you will get some peace in your heart. The other possibility is that you will have to sit with the emotion for a LONG TIME which is excellent dharma practice to build patience.
Eventually clarity will come.
When we see how much suffering there is it seems crazy to hold anger in your heart and add to that suffering. Its like how can you get angry at someone who is dead, though I know it can be done.
I release my anger sometimes when im boxing in the ring. I am an amateur, don't compete but I do spar a lot with guys who compete. The middle path has kept me from competing, cause i'm actually pretty good. It helps me to confront myself. When someone is hitting you, and you are trying to hit someone else, you're confronted with a whole bunch of emotions like anger, fear, desperation, pain, euforia, depending on how the fight goes.
Perhaps it'll help if I explain I quit smoking about 5 weeks ago. The first week I
was the definition of anger itself. Smoking was my first escape mechanism from the shitty home and life situation I was in. From reality. How silly it may sound.
I've had a history of addiction problems, fixed all of them, smoking was my last and most heavy one to overcome. Since it was my first I guess.
Meditating on the world's suffering seems like a good practise. I will try it. But not to deep and heavy
This is what I meant with I get frustrated that my story, my point doesn't seem to get across when written on a forum. I should adress these things real-life with a person who knows me or who is professionaly trained for this stuff. Because there are so many little important details to this whole situation.
for example.
it's not just her. She doenst get wasted all the time, she does occasionaly, and we've come a long long way together. She supported me when I was detoxing from addicions, (BIG EFFORT FROM SOMEONE) but, as a recovering addict, i'm threatened by every kind of substance abuse around me, it is not realistic to keep myself in a basement waiting for the world to change. It's against my buddhistic view to remove myself from society and all it's nasty things,
I made a choice several years ago I would not go for enlightenment this life, but to help other wondering souls like mine as good as I good.
I too have faced depression, very deep life threatening depression,, and this thought has often made me through it. 'There are more like me that need help'. I'm still not afraid of death, I see it as a friend, cause I looked him in the eyes several times, one day he will embrace me and welcome me, but not in the next fifty years or so.
I didn't have the money or time or possibilies or familiy support to go into proper recovery back then, i'm doing this alone, because there is no other way. So yeah, I still have a lot of raw emotions, but that's oke I guess, concidering the whole situation.
I appreciated your imput Jeffry, a lot,
And I like your profile pic
@lauarjean,,
she's not an alcohlic, she's just a student girl who get's drunk once in a while.
Most students are destructive, they eat bad, are lazy, drink too much, have casual sex, etc. etc.
Most young people for that part. For a student she's actually pretty mature and experienced by life.
Please read my reply to jeffrey,
thank you for your response...
(Maybe you meant "she is bad when drunk"??)
Taking the time to meditate or walk or anything mindfully letting things be as they are. The irony is that you don't have to change anything it will change on its own. Things are how they are, which doesn't mean that you are not allowed to have wishes or that you must be resigned. The point is that when you stop reacting to things as solid objects a certain space or calmness comes into your mind. You see that you are bigger than your crazy life.
From the outside and certainly from the inside any number of criticisms can be levied against you. That stuff is painful which is why the attitude of letting things be. Its kind of like you have all these reactions and when you just stand on the spot and notice those reactions. As those reactions come and go you are not just left with nothing. There is wisdom and clarity left over. And lots of space for things to be just as they are. Crazy girlfriend. Crazy self. Boxing. Giving up cigs. All space for that to happen and a whole person who doesn't need any spiritual credentials. Because you sit with everything and its not going anywhere. No matter how long you meditate its not going anywhere. Therefore trust yourself and your life and you don't need any credentials.
I think its wonderful in how you find strength in possibility to be there and help others. Inspirational.
@laurajean...
'Maybe you meant "she is bad when drunk"??)'
yeah exactly....that's what I meant..sorry english is not my native language.
I will reply to you later, thanks for the post,
bit busy right now.
If you've helped people or advised them, and they continue to repeat the same mistakes, you're done. Move on. You've done all you can. It's up to them now.
Do you have friends who help you when you need it, and who are supportive of you, who share your values? If not, get some. (Granted, this may take time.) It'll make all the difference in the world as to how you feel. Good luck.
My message to you was to examine these questions and sit with them. Clarity will come. And clarity is clarity. It doesn't matter if you are with some dumb good hearted witchy human asshole sweet girl. Clarity will come on whether to stay with her. Trust yourself.
The solution is to watch what you are doing. What are your needs? Why do you need them? Go deeper and deeper into those questions. Simultaneously work on the anger. It doesn't matter if you spend some time with a party girl for awhile. What matters is learning to work with situations. Getting better friends isn't 'wrong' but I think examining the needs you have and the things that come up such as anger are more important. They can be done at the same time.
Getting better friends is not liberating. But it can remove some crap from your life that is getting in your way. Quitting drinking isn't liberating but it has sure helped me to have more time and energy and a clearer head. But the transforming liberating force in my life was the dharma. And that helped disentangle me from neurosis. It was not a project to stop drinking. First I had to accept that I drank and own all the consequences. I had to bust myself.
Same thing with destructive relationships. The 'poor me' persona is really ridiculous. Its not the real you its just a delusion. Just don't be divided and don't take it seriously in a very spiritual and not party person sense. Disentangle from the neurosis. Trust yourself. You are allowed to make mistakes for as long as you want. You don't get any prize for 'having it all figured out'. It will just take away the freshness and burn you out.
Live real fresh and alive and trust yourself. When the clarity comes you can break up. But it should come from calm and knowing rather than neurosis. I think what people aren't seeing is that not getting appreciation and respect is a perception. You don't want a knee jerk over reaction and then chase the rainbow for angelic perfect buddha friends who don't poop or masturbate. Thats an exageration I am just saying that you can be ok with you regardless. And once you are you can stay or walk.
But samsara is to think you have to do something or get some friends or whatever to be happy. The only reason to clear obstacles is so you can be at peace with yourself as you are and not be overwhelmed. So if the situation with your gf is overwhelming you only then isi it iditiot compassion.
Most everyone who is not enlightened is practicing idiiot compassion strictly speaking.
"Spending time with a party girl"?? I hope that's not what you thought I meant by finding good friends, Jeffrey. :-/
Depends how they treat you. And if you like them. And if you can deal with them being involved with the party. By the time your friends are any good their bodies will probably be falling apart left and right from all the partying they used to do! (kidding)
Especially about being more skillfull in my compassion.
Never thought about it that way.
'You don't want a knee jerk over reaction and then chase the rainbow for angelic perfect buddha friends who don't poop or masturbate'
HAHAHAHAHAHA beautifully put Jeffrey,
I met some of those kind of people, they scare me.
I want to be more compassionate too, but I read something earlier that made me feel a little more at ease. Something about how those who try to force compassion are just making it harder for it to naturally unfold. If you can't be compassionate with those people in your life, be compassionate and understanding with yourself. That kind of steady practice is sure to lead you down a path where the compassion will grow and strengthen naturally.
i've been SO wrong.....
Last three weeks my entire life, my emotions have been ueh....polarized. ..
i've been diagnosed with an attention disorder....
nobody ever, inlcuding myself, ever knew, i've been always diagnosed with other behavioural problems...
all my life i've been attracting/seeking/creating an overdose of negative energy (drugs, bad woman,etc. etc.) as a hormonal coping mechanism.
And every time I was seeking peace, i've found this 'unrest'....and thought it wasn't right for me.
i've found my centre...now I can build.
I feel great.....the demon girl is out of my life, almost....a few more days..
The thought of buddha under the boditree being attacked by the devil, will help me trough this.
starting to feel peace and contentment, and a first true step towards enlightenment,
but that's a story for some other time.