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We need a little fun to have the quality of lightness and joy in our heart to practice. If we are depressed the quality of our meditation, compassion, ethics, etc. will be less. And studying. For this reason we need joy in our life. However getting lost in these pursuits is the other extreme.
Remember buddha found a middle road between ascetism (denying the body) and hedonism (indulging the body).
But consider what delightful activities put you in the mind to practice the dharma. Wanking? Or a walk in the park? Video games? Gardening? I think because of the shame associated with masturbation (for some) it is not the lightness that puts us in the mood to practice the dharma. But it can be great practice in that case to on the spot practice with shame!
No, I don't. I try to be mindful of how I spend my time, so I got rid of my TV, and I wouldn't even know how to go about playing a computer game, not that I'd want to anyway. (I do, still, spend a bit too much time on this forum, in spite of cutting back. I'll just file this activity under "humanitarian pursuits". ) The time I used to spend zoned in front of the TV is better spent on humanitarian projects. As Leon Basin recently pointed out on his thread, every spare moment can be dedicated to meditation (or, I'd add, dharma-related pursuits in gen'l). There's no time to waste in the struggle for a just world, a compassionate society, the pursuit of enlightenment. But balancing that with activities that renew and refresh us is also important.
This question about using prostitutes does seem to contradict the "sex-for-procreation-only" position, doesn't it? The guidelines set by the Buddha were later added to by a number of commentators, and they became more restrictive over time. This happened in part to clarify earlier guidelines, but the effect was further restriction. So some contradiction came about. I was surprised to come across HHDL's sex-for-procreation stance, since back in the 80's or early 90's he had said that use of birth control was ok.
"Many single men today believe that sleeping with prostitutes does not go against the third Buddhist precept, which is to avoid adultery. First, it is against the third precept. Second, it is an opening to hell. Lord Buddha called this the road to ruin. What kind of person sleeps with prostitutes?" ~Venerable Dhattajeevo Bhikku
I don't know what kind of a person sleeps with prostitutes. I assume some pretty ordinary people. (Remember the court case a prostitute brought against Deepak Chopra?) One of our mods suggested to one of our members he see a prostitute to address his needs. Maybe this is the subject for another thread..?
.... Poor hermitwin thought he was keeping it simple, and immediately, complexities flourished!
Well you started it....!
Did you think I wasn't aware of that? That was my attempt to introduce a note of levity to the discussion, laughing at myself, but also at the nature of the topic to expand exponentially whenever it comes up. Oh well--another well-meaning attempt to add a little humor, shot down in flames.
It's worth always mentioning that according to a specific tradition, *this, that and the other* is considered misconduct, but other traditions may vary....;)
We covered that earlier on the thread.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Oh Dakini, this is so....last week!
(and I didn't 'shoot you down in flames'.... see my big toofy grin...??);)
Who would sleep with a prostitute? Someone who didn't want to be in a relationship but wanted to have sex? Or someone in a relationship who wasn't getting sex? Definitely someone with money.
Prostitution is negative, but not because sexuality is negative. And not because sexuality for money is negative. It is negative because prostitution is illegal. Which connects to the criminal element and unwholesome abusive people.
If you consider sleeping with a prostitute to be exploitation. Then you must also not buy street marijuana. Because the dealer might be killed in gang violence or exploited somehow in the criminal underworld. Drug dealers aren't less a person that hookers and they have value to not be exploited too.
Personally I neither hire prostitutes or buy illegal drugs. But they are the same thing when illegal. When legal there is nothing dirty about them. Probably less harmful than McDonalds.
Right, Jeffrey. Prostitution wasn't illegal in the Buddha's time, and wasn't considered exploitation, thought that may've been due to ignorance about prostitutes' circumstances. At any rate, times have changed,laws have changed, and most importantly, the view toward prostitution being harmful or not to the workers themselves has changed; most people regard patronizing prostitues as a violation of the precept against harm.
Marijuana and prostitution both should be legalized, as far as I'm concerned. But that's a differentdiscussion.
Question: I haven't studied this issue, so maybe you could fill me in, Box: If prostitution were legalized, would that somehow eliminate the violence and exploitation involved? I mean, would it eliminate pimps? How would that work?
This doesn't address the fact that many women who go into the "profession" do so because they were abused as children, and all that, but I'm just asking about the theory behind the legalization position.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Off -topic. Interesting though, so I really do encourage/suggest beginning a new one.
You have to figure out what is wrong for you. Generally speaking having sex with someone's wife isn't a good thing, but if you're a swinger, and they're swingers, and proper protection is used, have at it. A good rule of thumb is don't use sex to cause harm (and I don't say pain, because some people are into that). If you're into anal, and your partner is into anal, have at it. If jerking off once a day makes life easier, have at it. just try not to do it in a public place, as that could possibly cause problems.
also, if you're out banging prostitutes, chances are you'll catch some kind of thing that will make your thing no longer correctly do its thing. proceed with caution.
Remember buddha found a middle road between ascetism (denying the body) and hedonism (indulging the body).
I doubt very much that this involved wanking. The Buddha was not a wanker. According to Buddhas teachings, faith in the Dharma is what gives rise to joy, not wanking.
You should go according to your own experience and not according to scripture. I was somewhat doubtful about masturbation and I thought I expressed that. But doing nothing joyful will lead particularly in the beginning stages to reject the dharma. The dharma isn't joyful. Until its joyful . You can't make a stone an orange. Until it becomes one.
You'd be surprised the extent to which "what causes suffering" in this context can and has been argued.
Yes, but the whole frame of discussion is being based on "right" and "wrong". Those two words are concepts which vary from person to person. If we focus on and find some understanding into what causes suffering, we are more in touch with the reality of sexual conduct. "Right" and "wrong" only further delude us in our perceptions of reality. If we abstain from doing something because we have been told it is conceptually "wrong" to do, we are not necessarily abstaining because of compassion and understanding. If we abstain because we are in touch with other people's suffering and its causes, then we are abstaining in a sincere way. I understand this takes practice.
Probably the first time mastrubating is an awakening dharmic experience. After that it is grasping to fix experience. But even addictions can be held mindfully and in loving kindness.
Comments
Remember buddha found a middle road between ascetism (denying the body) and hedonism (indulging the body).
But consider what delightful activities put you in the mind to practice the dharma. Wanking? Or a walk in the park? Video games? Gardening? I think because of the shame associated with masturbation (for some) it is not the lightness that puts us in the mood to practice the dharma. But it can be great practice in that case to on the spot practice with shame!
This question about using prostitutes does seem to contradict the "sex-for-procreation-only" position, doesn't it? The guidelines set by the Buddha were later added to by a number of commentators, and they became more restrictive over time. This happened in part to clarify earlier guidelines, but the effect was further restriction. So some contradiction came about. I was surprised to come across HHDL's sex-for-procreation stance, since back in the 80's or early 90's he had said that use of birth control was ok. I don't know what kind of a person sleeps with prostitutes. I assume some pretty ordinary people. (Remember the court case a prostitute brought against Deepak Chopra?) One of our mods suggested to one of our members he see a prostitute to address his needs. Maybe this is the subject for another thread..?
(and I didn't 'shoot you down in flames'.... see my big toofy grin...??);)
Who would sleep with a prostitute? Someone who didn't want to be in a relationship but wanted to have sex? Or someone in a relationship who wasn't getting sex? Definitely someone with money.
If you consider sleeping with a prostitute to be exploitation. Then you must also not buy street marijuana. Because the dealer might be killed in gang violence or exploited somehow in the criminal underworld. Drug dealers aren't less a person that hookers and they have value to not be exploited too.
Personally I neither hire prostitutes or buy illegal drugs. But they are the same thing when illegal. When legal there is nothing dirty about them. Probably less harmful than McDonalds.
If prostitution were legalized, would that somehow eliminate the violence and exploitation involved? I mean, would it eliminate pimps? How would that work?
This doesn't address the fact that many women who go into the "profession" do so because they were abused as children, and all that, but I'm just asking about the theory behind the legalization position.
Interesting though, so I really do encourage/suggest beginning a new one.
also, if you're out banging prostitutes, chances are you'll catch some kind of thing that will make your thing no longer correctly do its thing. proceed with caution.