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Legalized Prostitution--How Would It Work?

DakiniDakini Veteran
edited March 2011 in General Banter
What would legalizing prostitution achieve for the prostitutes, aside from keeping them and their clients out of jail? Presumably the state would get involved in health services for sex workers, and there might be other regulatory oversight, such as (hopefully) elimination of underage workers. Would it eliminate violence and exploitation for the workers, i.e. eliminate pimps? If not, what would be the point? Who would benefit from this, besides the State, which would get tax revenues from the workers? Would it legitimize sex work, so that women (and men?) on welfare would be told to hit the streets and sell themselves, as happens in Nevada? Does anyone here have concrete info on this issue?

Comments

  • CloudCloud Veteran
    What is the purpose of this thread? Who is trying to legalize prostitution or what good is to come of it?
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited March 2011
    This topic came up on another thread, and Federica urged that a dedicated thread be set up for it. I dunno. :-/ Ask her. But isn't there, or hasn't there been, some agitation for legalizing prostitution, the so-called "victimless crime"?
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    Dakini- if you Google "prostitution in Nevada" you'll find what you want to know. Did you forget? You're a Yank too. For you non-Yanks, prostitution is legal in the state of Nevada in the USA.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited March 2011
    OK, thanks, SD. Looks like legalized prostitution isn't very popular in Nevada; it's restricted to just a few counties, and other counties have passed legislation to block it from happening in their back yard.
    (No, I didn't forget, I mentioned Nevada in the OP. I'm painfully aware that I'm a Yank, but thanks for reminding me. )
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    Prostitution in Nevada
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevada
  • Mr_SerenityMr_Serenity Veteran
    Prostitution happens almost everywhere, so it's much better if it's legal. That way the prostitutes can get better care. Sometimes when it's illegal and they get raped, beaten, etc and they never report it. The way they have it in Nevada is much better than any other state of the U.S.. It's one of the oldest professions. So it's not like completely outlawing it will stop it. If anything it will make it way worse for those that some how get stuck doing it.

    If you put it in the public eye more, and make it like the bunny ranch in Nevada it can be much more legitimate, and a better experience in general that doesn't have to be dangerous. But I really can't imagine how they feel to continue to want to do that profession.

    I know webcam girls that really enjoy doing what they do, and get paid really well (the good ones probably make more than you). But I'm sure when you introduce a physical stranger into the picture it changes the dynamics completely. I would say it's better to legalize prostitution with a lot of regulations in place to some how make it more comfortable and safer for both.

    I know of massage places where they do offer happy endings or they just disguise the sexual massage by calling it tantra massage. It's like softcore prostitution, but from what I hear of it the massage ladies seem genuinely happy and cool with doing their job. Because it's a controlled and laid back environment. So that type of environment that is professional and controlled is much better compared to trying to hide it and keeping it all shady.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited March 2011
    All good points, Mr. Serenity. But check out the wikipedia link SherabDorje provided. It turns out that when its legalized, it gets strangely marginalized and contained in out-of-the-way brothels (it's not like the sex workers are allowed to freelance, and just register with the state). So someone is still controlling the workers and calling the shots. I didn't read the whole thing.

    Yeah, I've heard webcam work is absurdly lucrative, to the point that it can be addictive.
    And--do you know how the "massage therapists" get paid? Does the "house" take more than the usual 40-50%, because a form of prostitution is involved? (Meaning, does it get exploitive, because the money's so good? Does organized crime get involved?) I guess it's pretty safe; is there secretarial or administrative staff on site at all times? Lots of questions. I'm not sure these matters are that simple.
  • RogerRoger
    edited March 2011
    Ya know what?

    I'd PAY for someone, actually a nice playboy bunny type, to give me a huge prolonged hug. No sex, no other contact, just a huge hug.

    I get them at home, but I'd like to get them during the day at work too!

    Heck, if I could find a "girl" who looks like my grandmother (RIP) I'd pay DOUBLE for that hug!

    Shhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't tell anybody about my secret hug desire. Also, If you see me in the forum: please ignore me hug-wise (unless you were a playboy bunny)!

    imageimageimage
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Yeah, "girls" who look like your grandmother (or anyone's grandmother) need to be appreciated, too.

    BTW, have you noticed that women who are grandmothers don't look anything like grandmothers anymore?
  • RogerRoger

    BTW, have you noticed that women who are grandmothers don't look anything like grandmothers anymore?
    HAHAHA! Holeee Cow!! Good one. True. Too too true!

  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited March 2011
    In fact, some of them look like they could be bunnies. :rolleyes: :p
    (and they're real: no surgical enhancement of any kind. women take better care of themselves these days.)
  • ArjquadArjquad Veteran
    I don't see why it's illegal. I'm not for or aginst prostitution but if both consent to it then it shouldn't be illegal. The money is just a bonus.
  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    edited March 2011
    As far as i know, I don't think prostitution (being one, or being a client) is against the 3rd precepts (sexual misconduct) for lay people, providing of course that there is no violence, under-age on non-consensual elements etc.

    Whether it is a skillfull practice is a separate question.

    Sorry to bring Buddhism into this nice discussion :)
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    As far as i know, I don't think prostitution (being one, or being a client) is against the 3rd precepts (sexual misconduct) for lay people, providing of course that there is no violence, under-age on non-consensual elements etc.
    It's not against the 3rd precept because circumstances and the level of understanding regarding why prostitutes choose their profession were different back when "the rules" were made up. The general consensus as evidenced in many related discussions on this board and other forums and media is that many or most prostitutes practice their profession because they were sexually or otherwise abused as children, so they make poor choices, and tend to gravitate back toward abusive situations (or professions). Even those without a history of abuse can fall into an abusive situation (pimps generally are abusive, I suppose madames aren't...?). Clients can be abusive. Some prostitutes are captives of sex slave rings. Suffering is built into the profession, with few exceptions. Therefore patronizing a prostitute is considered these days to violate the 3rd precept.

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    prostitutes could unionize and get high wages. there could be prostitute universities!
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    As far as i know, I don't think prostitution ...is against the 3rd precepts ....
    Whether it is a skillfull practice is a separate question.

    Sorry to bring Buddhism into this nice discussion :)
    Apology accepted, but yes, it's off topic.
    The topic is not Buddhist attitudes to prostitution, but legalised prostitution.
    As the question is based from an American PoV, and there are places in the USA where prostitution IS already legal, I think that covers it..... :)
    Well done everyone.

    Now, who's for a cup of cocoa and some cookies? :)


  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    This topic came up on another thread, and Federica urged that a dedicated thread be set up for it. I dunno. :-/ Ask her. .....
    No, I didn't.

    You and another poster were taking the thread in question dangerously off topic.
    I suggested that it might be of interest to begin a new thread, which you encouraged the other poster to do.
    They obviously didn't feel interested enough to do so, therefore you picked up the baton.
    This thread is entirely your decision.

  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    edited March 2011
    Prostitution happens almost everywhere, so it's much better if it's legal. That way the prostitutes can get better care. Sometimes when it's illegal and they get raped, beaten, etc and they never report it. The way they have it in Nevada is much better than any other state of the U.S.. It's one of the oldest professions. So it's not like completely outlawing it will stop it. If anything it will make it way worse for those that some how get stuck doing it.
    this topic sometimes seems to be a big 'ol feminist can of works, but i'm completely for legalized prostitution. i don't exactly support the activity, per se, but seeing as i doubt the oldest profession in the world will end anytime soon... why not make it safe for women? i echo Mr Serenity's statements.

    i am, however, against sex workers masquerading as massage therapists. they're the reason i get propositioned for sex so often. as a professional who has spent a great deal on schooling and continues to spend money on insurance and continued education credits, there is nothing more irritating and insulting than to find out a client simply wanted to bone you.
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    Here in Thailand it is basically legal. It is something socially accepted. I myself do not part-take or have ever paid for sex, but you see it all the time. I just se it for what it is and think nothing of it to be honest. Me and my friend (when he was here) use to play a game called ''how much?'' You see these 60 year old men with beautiul young thai women and you have to guess how much. You can buy a thai woman for a week, a month, for life, it is quite odd. But at the same time it seems okay, it runs like clockwork and their isn't much harm to the women. There are a lot of lady boys 'tussi'. As long as ignorant beings will walk the earth, prostitution will exist, more so in some countries.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Right, but I took it thinking you had an interest in it. Misunderstanding, I guess; you were just encouraging a separate thread mainly to avoid more off-topic discussion, rather than from personal interest.

  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Here in Thailand it is basically legal. It is something socially accepted. You can buy a thai woman for a week, a month, for life, it is quite odd. But at the same time it seems okay, it runs like clockwork and their isn't much harm to the women. There are a lot of lady boys 'tussi'. As long as ignorant beings will walk the earth, prostitution will exist, more so in some countries.
    What are "lady boys 'tussi'"? What about the sexual exploitation of boys that Thailand is infamous for? What about the exploitation of minors in general (are all those Thai women for hire adults)? There must be underground aspects of it, that is easier to conceal because of the legalized status...?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2011
    "Right, but I took it thinking you had an interest in it. Misunderstanding, I guess; you were just encouraging a separate thread mainly to avoid more off-topic discussion, rather than from personal interest."

    Correct. ;)
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2011
    "basically legal" and "socially accepted" don't mean they are legal.
    It means the Authorities have turned a blind eye, because in fact, it probably IS illegal.
    In fact, the Authorities are slamming down hard on both indigenous inhabitants AND foreign visitors for having under-age sex because of the dreadful reputation it's earning Thailand.
    look at Gary Glitter.....
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    I never mentioned under aged sex, that is something unseen and behind closed doors. You see women of 20-50 with men all of the time and you know they are either married to them gaining the benefits or they are 'hired'. I do not agree with it, but at the same time I am not bothered by it either. I cannot go around changing what is, and it is socially accepted.
    I have never seen a girl being exploited, they seem to get taken care of greatly by these men. It is like a mutual understanding. Old men know they have a few years left on the clock, so they spend a bit of cash, take care of a woman and get to be with a beautiful lady for a while.

    But of course, there will be cases where women are abused or whatever, that is inevitable. I have been here nearly a year and I have never encountered anything largely negative with how things are run with regards to prostitution here. However, I am aware of how under aged people are used for sex, but you never see of it. Pattaya is probably the worse for it, I have never been there but it is notorious for this kind of business, the skid mark of Thailand.

    I never said it was legal, but from what I have seen it mine as well be legal. You have the odd crack down, I read about a police raid in pattaya where they found young thai girls who were being trafficked and used in what was named, a 'baby farm'. Pretty sick.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    But of course, there will be cases where women are abused or whatever, that is inevitable. I have been here nearly a year and I have never encountered anything largely negative with how things are run with regards to prostitution here.
    OK, Tom, so how does it work, do you know? Do those women work independently, setting their own rates and collecting (and keeping) the fee, or are there syndicates that control the women and take most of the money, or how does it work?

  • StaticToyboxStaticToybox Veteran
    Kudos to Dakini for making this. I think the benefits of legalized prostitution would be that it could be licensed and regulated. Workers could unionize. Get health benefits and work in a clean, safe environment. Now I'm not naive enough to believe that this would do away with exploitative street prostitution entirely, but I believe that it would be severely lessened. I doubt too many people would be willing to take the risk involved in street prostitution when there's a safer, legal alternative available.
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    Well dakini, you have the areas of Thailand where you have the bar girls. Streets of bars where if you are a foreigner and merely walk down the street, you will be hassled to go into the bar. They will want you to drink, flirt, and buy sex most of the time.
    You sometimes have girls simply on the street asking if you want sex but this is not so common where I live, more so in Pattaya in places like Phuket. The bar owners are quite often foreigners and know what is what, they also employ lady boys quite often, to each their own...

    The women who are 'bought' for long periods of time often meet the guys in bars or somewhere and it is something mutual, the man who is 60 years old knows what she wants and she knows what he wants.

    Legalized prostitution might work if it was regulated properly and the women were okay with what they are doing. Things seem to run smoothly in Amsterdam for the vast majority of the time...
  • Mr_SerenityMr_Serenity Veteran
    edited March 2011

    i am, however, against sex workers masquerading as massage therapists. they're the reason i get propositioned for sex so often. as a professional who has spent a great deal on schooling and continues to spend money on insurance and continued education credits, there is nothing more irritating and insulting than to find out a client simply wanted to bone you.
    I have a serious suggestion then. I believe they do this at a few massage places. Have clients fill in a form before they get a massage (just fill it in once), like a contract that makes them sign to please not ask for sexual favors and that this is a business for professional massage therapy. It would have to be worded better than that of course, but there are plenty of massage places that do this now, where they make first time clients sign a form that basically says "no happy endings ok?". I'm sure you'll get plenty that walk out after reading that, but also it might save some awkwardness from both at the end lol.
  • yildunyildun Explorer
    Hi.The majority of women(Men) are forced into Prostitution
    either by pimps or a need for money to buy drugs etc.

    I am not a prude and the countdown blonde can call over anytime she
    likes however IMHO and to generalize clients who use prostitutes are
    rapists.They are having sex with a person who is FORCED by
    either pimps,drugs or as sexslaves etc.to sell his/her body.

    slainte

    yildun
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