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Killing Insects and Household Pests...

edited March 2011 in General Banter
Okay, I'm picking up from a post Federica made on another thread, but I figured it should be a new topic. How do you all feel about killing insects or pests that are invading your home? I'm not talking about stepping on an ant deliberately if you see one, I'm referring to say, calling an exterminator for termites, bed bugs or mice. Is there a difference between hiring a professional to do it and treating it yourself? Is either okay? With an exterminator, you aren't directly killing, but you are hiring someone to kill. Is there a difference?

If I see a lone spider or ant, I catch it and put him safely outside. I am also careful to take preventative measures, etc. But what if one finds themselves with a serious infestation, say bed bugs or termites, something you cannot simply "remove"?? What are your views on this?

Comments

  • edited March 2011
    I built a one-way cage for mice that were in our house. I put the one-way door of the cage right up against the mouse hole. The next morning? The entire mouse family was in the cage! WOW. FUNNY!

    Living in a rural area with no pest-disease problems, we brought The Mouse Family to a field and let them loose.

    Easy to make the cage out of 1/4 inch wire mesh and a glue gun image

    Cover the cage, put fluff inside it too, so they don't freeze if it's cold.
  • Yes Roger, and Have-A-Heart traps are relatively inexpensive also. I too catch any mice and release them, although I've only ever had a couple since living in this house. I imagine having two cats helps as a deterrent.

    But what about the things you CAN'T catch and release, say termites, which are inside the wood supporting your house? You cannot simply remove them. What then?

    (I don't have any pest problems, this is all hypothetical; I've been wondering about this for some time)
  • edited March 2011
    IMO? I do the best I can. I have a butterfly net from waaaaaay back which I keep for Hummers which sometimes get trapped inside. Spiders? I whack them if I can't identify them as the harmless ones because some around here will make us ill.

    Bees, wasps? Put a cup over them and slide paper under cup lip, take outside.
    Termites: exterminate. Carpenter ants: exterminate. Sorry. It's a war with those species. meanwhile eliminate damp conditions to prevent them from advancing to be slaughtered.

    Main thing? This guy I know, we were standing outside on the driveway fifty feet from his house, he sees an ant crawling harmlessly on the pavement and he thoughtlessly smashes it with his jackboot! THAT guy is NOT what you want to be!
  • I'm mainly talking about the infestations that you cannot remove, like termites and carpenter ants, etc.

    I too see people stepping on spiders or squashing a bug that's outside and not even in their house. It actually makes me cringe. I can't help but to say "Why?! Why would you kill him, he's outside where he belongs!"
  • edited March 2011
    Yeah, Laurajean, just nuke them if they're infestations. The situation got out of hand: nuke 'em. :(

    In the future do what you can to actively discourage, or better, prevent them from making your home into their home. Other than keep things dry, I forget the other specific precautions homeowners should take.

    IM_H_O of course
  • Termites! Serious stuff! They can consume your home's foundation. The best medicine is prevention (take care of moisture problems as soon as they arise, make sure no wood is in contact with soil). But in the case of termites, I'm afraid...we have to violate the 1st precept. :( I see no way around it.
  • To clarify, I am not having any pest problems. I am just posting this hypothetically. I work in the summer as the Manager of a Pest Control company, so I'm well familiar with how to handle various pest situations. I was just curious what other Buddhists would say about killing pests like termites or carpenter ants.

    CW, you're right about preventing termites. Always keep wood from contact with soil and take care of moisture problems! Also, people tend to surround their homes with mulch, which of course is chopped wood, which is termite food! Mulch is BAD!!!
  • Yes, from what I understand, mulch can also attract ants. Wow. A pest control worker. Think of the karma associated with /that/! I mean the people who actually do the nuking, not the office workers. Office worker for a pest control company--a good "right livelihood" question. Carry on, laurajean.
  • Oh! At least get a hygrometer and see how humid things are in your basement. Anything above 55% is perfect for bugs!
    Might have to get a dehumidifier and run it for a few month$ a year.
  • edited March 2011
    Yes, CW mulch will attract any wood boring insect. And yes, I was offered the opportunity by my ex of all people, to work from my home as his office manager, I took a lot of time to think about it. It was bad enough when we were dating, me, the animal loving, buddhist, environmentally conscious type, dating an EXTERMINATOR! We joked about the irony back when we dated, but now I had the chance to work from home part time. Being disabled, this was a rare chance for me to be able to work from home.

    So I thought about right livelihood, and the ethics of it, etc. I decided that I could feel okay doing it with a couple of conditions: 1. I will never personally kill anything, 2. I won't recommend to customers to kill anything (only recommend an inspection, and then he (my boss/ex) can determine what needs to be done). It was a hard decision, but it was a rare chance for me, being disabled to have some part time income. I've tailored it quite nicely, if I do say so myself. I teach customers PREVENTATIVE measures, which my boss/ex advocates, and so I take comfort in knowing that I am preventing creature deaths as well. I've also implemented "green products" to our product line, which makes me feel like I am contributing to the environment by offering an alternative to harmful chemicals. So I've come to some sense of peace with it.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    I won't even kill a ladybug anymore. I look at them and see the same awareness we all have looking out at this world, trying to find its way, not wanting harm to come to it (or pain, as far as it understands it). It's simply impossible to intentionally do, it would cause me mental pain to kill a bug. If you can find a way to scoop a bug up and move it away from the problem area, I'd do that.
  • edited March 2011
    If you can find a way to scoop a bug up and move it away from the problem area, I'd do that.
    Absolutely. It just isn't right to destroy those marvelous living things. We keep transparent cups and pieces of stiff paper to slide underneath the captured-in-a-cup insect and even aquarium fish net around. It's hard to admit this to "normal" people who visit.

    Sometimes, like I said, I will destroy the hapless insect if it's a mosquito, an unidentifiable spider, untrappable fly, or in-season moths (can be a mess if they lay eggs indoors). The intention is to respect these miniature living things while, at the same time, not driving yourself crazy by expectations of perfection in assuring their well-being.



  • Absolutely. It just isn't right to destroy those marvelous living things. We keep transparent cups and pieces of stiff paper to slide underneath the captured-in-a-cup insect and even aquarium fish net around. It's hard to admit this to "normal" people who visit.

    Roger, I literally do the same exact thing! I have a butterfly net that I got at the dollar store that I keep handy, and a canning jar with a thin piece of cardboard for the crawling critters.

  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    I won't even kill a ladybug anymore.
    "anymore"? Who kills ladybugs, Cloud? They're so cute, and who do they bother? They're not really pests. They don't damage anything.


    Absolutely. It just isn't right to destroy those marvelous living things. We keep transparent cups and pieces of stiff paper to slide underneath the captured-in-a-cup insect and even aquarium fish net around.
    Roger, I literally do the same exact thing!
    Me, too; I've been doing the cup-and-paper thing since I was a kid.

    Fascinating story, laurajean, about all the consideration you gave to accepting your job. :) Thx for sharing.
  • edited March 2011
    For termites, you can try on using vacuum cleaning machine to suck them and then release to the nature. You may need to choose to open the machine to let them out, in this case, you have to donate the machine to the nature. For bed bug, just moved out the bed. As far as possible, remain a zen home if it has intruded with insects. Prior to this, compassionately communicate with the insect and do them a service by chanting sutra or mantra or buddha name with a cup of plain water. Compassionately, sprinkle the blessed plain water upon them :vimp:
  • Sorry, Wilfred, none of those approaches would work. Termites are INSIDE the wood. They are not visible, they are literally inside the wood, they cannot be exposed to air. So it would be impossible to "vacuum" them out. There is NO way to remove termites without a chemical treatment to kill them.

    Same with bed bugs. They are not only in the bed, but they are in other areas, crevices, cracks, upholstery, seems in cloth, etc. Easily spread from room to room, even home to home (like child sleepovers hitching rides in duffle bags),living in couches, etc. They come out at night, and live on blood. So you can't even find them without thorough looking, and even if you see them, there are thousands of eggs and larvae invisible to the human eye, much like fleas, only worse.

    When we (my company) treat for bed bugs, we instruct the customer to remove everything, from drawers, closets, wash and bag their clothes and linens for weeks, etc. There must be a thorough chemical treatment, and even then, there must be multiple treatments in order to break the reproduction cycle and get them all.

    That's why I posed the question. Some "pests" cannot be removed without killing them. I wish there was a way, believe me I do.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited March 2011
    I won't even kill a ladybug anymore.
    "anymore"? Who kills ladybugs, Cloud?
    Well ladybugs, flies, whatever. "Anymore" meaning there was a point where "I" did and would, which seems like a whole different person to me now. It's as different as being 2 years old is to being 23 years old. Entirely different person, thinking itself the same, only connected by labels and association with the aggregates, which themselves are always in flux and ownerless.

  • ...it will be useful to provide a link of the post that originated this thread.
  • ...it will be useful to provide a link of the post that originated this thread.
    No, it's really not useful, it's pretty much unrelated, which is why I started a new topic. But if you want to look it's:

    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/9543/china-vs.-tibet:-a-good-articles#Item_37

    China vs. Tibet

  • weird, I think that I already replied to this thread. was the post deleted?!
  • don't know.....
  • Mr_SerenityMr_Serenity Veteran
    edited March 2011
    It honestly surprises me that people would actually feel bad about exterminating a colony of termites invading your home. It's your home, your territory, so defend it! Pests like that do more harm than good. Roaches too, some of them can give you asthma. Mosquitoes can also give you all types of diseases.

    I think instead of being obsessed with precepts (like commandments) a Buddhist should just do what is practical. Use your heart and head to tell you what is right for you, don't depend on rule books.

    I'm cool with bugs, but I feed live ones to my bearded dragon everyday. They're just her food the same way someone might eat chicken or beef from a bowl of soup. Except my dragons food is more fresh than the meat you eat.
  • edited March 2011
    BTW, we have bugs in our eyelashes. I'm sure further Googling will yield yet more horrendous insect dilemmas!

    My point: be nice to insects but it's okay to set your own swat/no-swat limits.

    Here's a photo of some close friends! image

    image
  • That's the most disgusting, sickest photo I have ever seen. :crazy:
  • what about parasites? they should be killed without moralisms!
  • Roger, you are GROSS!! You've gone TOO FAR!! (But we like you anyway. ;) ) Just keep it down to a dull roar next time, ok? :p
  • edited March 2011
    Sorry guys and ladies. I can't delete my post so I'm attempting to gain absolution by this 180 degree directional change from gross to cute as seen below but somehow I'm still feeling nauseous. image

    image
  • That's better. still couldn't finish my chili though.... guess I'll have leftovers tomorrow....
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I watched a programme yesterday titled "The Hman Planet" and how we have built cities but attempted to eradicate nature.
    At least, in the beginning we did.
    Now,we're far more welcoming.
    Did you know it was once illegal to keep bees in NYC? Thanks largely to the tireless campaign of one individual, not only is it now legal, it's positively encouraged. There are literally millions of rooftop and balcony gardens in the city and people actually have beehives there.

    But there are less welcome intruders making their natural homes in cities.
    cockroaches, rats and bed-bugs, to name but three.

    And while their presence is largely due to our welcoming carelessness, they harbour disease, harmful bacteria and really, really nasty germs....
    There are apparently two rats for every NYC inhabitant, and it's a battle to control them.

    I read in one of Lama Surya Das' books that a Buddhist monastery was obliged for health and safety reasons, to call in the exterminators to deal with a particularly nasty roach infestation.
    The monks were reluctant, and had tried to accommodate their little insect friends at first, but their welcoming compassion turned on them, and the rapidly became outnumbered....No choice but to eradicate them.
    But they did think long and hard, and even consulted their "Mother Monastery" in Nepal, I believe.....
    It became a case of "The needs of the few over-riding the needs of the many"....

    So even the most mindful, compassionate and caring of individuals may have to make hard decisions....

  • After reading this thread I think I need a new mattress.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    I'm moving into a tent....!
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