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Satanism
Today, we look at satanism. Now, I know a majority of the readers of this site are from a predominately Christian background so let me start with this. Satanism is not the worship of some red, half-goat, half-man that lives in the ground. There are many (per)versions of this belief system. THe core foundation is that thought that we as humans are all animals and the acceptance of your carnal side. It does not embody the desire to go the hell and burn for eternity. It simply states that people like to do what feel aestheticly good and that it si OK to feel good. For example, having sex is OK. Not just for reproduction but for the pleasure of it. That is why we have masturbation. Eating good food until you are full is OK. Revenge is OK. Basically, any emotion or feeling that you have becomes justified. However, taking a life should, as a human, make you feel bad. If you have ever watched any of the "Faces of Death" videos, you know what I mean. Here is a brief Synopsis:
Various meanings of "Satanism:"
When people think of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and many other religions, they have at least a general idea of what the religion involves. "Satanism" is an exception. In North America, many people use it as a general-purpose religious "snarl" word. Others consider a wide variety of beliefs and practices as Satanism:
Satanists are followers of a Satanic religion: Most religious historians, mainline Christians, liberal Christians, etc., view Satanism as Satanists themselves do: as a very small religious group that is unrelated to any other faith, and whose members feel free to satisfy their urges responsibly, exhibit kindness to their friends, and attack their enemies. There are perhaps ten thousand Satanists in North America. By far the largest Satanic organization is the Church of Satan. Accurate membership numbers are quite impossible to estimate.
Satanists are followers of a religion other than Conservative Christianity: Conservative Christians generally believe that there are only two powerful supernatural forces in the world: their God and Satan. A few of them believe that if a person does not worship their God and hold their beliefs, then they must be worshiping Satan. The latter are, by definition, Satanists. Thus, they view all religions different from their own to be are forms of Satanism. This would include established world religions from Buddhism to Zoroastrianism, and might even include liberal and some mainline Christians. Satanists would then make up in excess of 90% of the world's population -- i.e. everyone who is not a conservative Christian. Using this definition, the term "Satanism" becomes almost meaningless.
bullet All non-Christians are Satanists: Some feel that all non-Christian religions are forms of Satanism. This would imply that all Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims - in fact about 67% of the world's population are Satanists.
bullet Non-Abramics are Satanists: Others feel that all religions other than the three Abramic religions Judaism, Christianity and Islam, are inspired by Satan and are thus a form of Satanism. By this reasoning, about 45% of the people of the world are Satanists.
bullet Followers of certain small religions are Satanists: Still others feel that the major world religions are not Satanism. However, they view a wide variety of unrelated religions and practices (such as Santeria, Vodun, other Caribbean religions, New Age, Druidism, Wicca, other Neopagan religions and religious Satanism) to be various forms of Satanism. They often include some non-religious groups and activities -- as varied as the Masonic order, the Occult, astrology, and tarot card reading -- within their definition of Satanism. There would be millions of Satanists in North America by this definition.
Describing Buddhists, Druids, Hindus, Jews, New Agers, Santerians, Taoists, Masons, Wiccans and other Neopagans, followers of Vodun, etc. as Satanists creates massive confusion in the minds of the public. None of these religions and spiritual paths teach the existence of an all-evil quasi-deity, similar to the all-evil, quasi-deity "Satan" that Christian and Islam have traditionally taught.
horizontal rule
A suggested definition:
Such definitions create great confusion, and stir up religious animosity against followers of benign faith traditions. It has been known to trigger lynching, attempted mass murder, fire bombings, shootings, common assaults, etc. We strongly recommend that the terms "Satanist" and "Satanism" be used only to refer to religions that have some direct involvement with Satan in some form. Thus a "Satanist" is one who either:
1. Worships the Christian devil. Although the Christian Churches taught during the Renaissance that devil worshipers were very common, such individuals were in fact extremely rare, and remain so. The very few who do exist appear to be solitary practitioners; they do not appear to have formed an organization.
2. Accepts Satan as a pre-Christian life-principle concept worth emulating. These are religious Satanists, who follow a number of religious traditions, of which the largest by far is the Church of Satan.
Please, share your thoughts on this topic. What is good/bad about it. Understandable/unreasonable? What is the draw? What are the benefits? How does this make you feel?
Discuss.
Various meanings of "Satanism:"
When people think of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and many other religions, they have at least a general idea of what the religion involves. "Satanism" is an exception. In North America, many people use it as a general-purpose religious "snarl" word. Others consider a wide variety of beliefs and practices as Satanism:
Satanists are followers of a Satanic religion: Most religious historians, mainline Christians, liberal Christians, etc., view Satanism as Satanists themselves do: as a very small religious group that is unrelated to any other faith, and whose members feel free to satisfy their urges responsibly, exhibit kindness to their friends, and attack their enemies. There are perhaps ten thousand Satanists in North America. By far the largest Satanic organization is the Church of Satan. Accurate membership numbers are quite impossible to estimate.
Satanists are followers of a religion other than Conservative Christianity: Conservative Christians generally believe that there are only two powerful supernatural forces in the world: their God and Satan. A few of them believe that if a person does not worship their God and hold their beliefs, then they must be worshiping Satan. The latter are, by definition, Satanists. Thus, they view all religions different from their own to be are forms of Satanism. This would include established world religions from Buddhism to Zoroastrianism, and might even include liberal and some mainline Christians. Satanists would then make up in excess of 90% of the world's population -- i.e. everyone who is not a conservative Christian. Using this definition, the term "Satanism" becomes almost meaningless.
bullet All non-Christians are Satanists: Some feel that all non-Christian religions are forms of Satanism. This would imply that all Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims - in fact about 67% of the world's population are Satanists.
bullet Non-Abramics are Satanists: Others feel that all religions other than the three Abramic religions Judaism, Christianity and Islam, are inspired by Satan and are thus a form of Satanism. By this reasoning, about 45% of the people of the world are Satanists.
bullet Followers of certain small religions are Satanists: Still others feel that the major world religions are not Satanism. However, they view a wide variety of unrelated religions and practices (such as Santeria, Vodun, other Caribbean religions, New Age, Druidism, Wicca, other Neopagan religions and religious Satanism) to be various forms of Satanism. They often include some non-religious groups and activities -- as varied as the Masonic order, the Occult, astrology, and tarot card reading -- within their definition of Satanism. There would be millions of Satanists in North America by this definition.
Describing Buddhists, Druids, Hindus, Jews, New Agers, Santerians, Taoists, Masons, Wiccans and other Neopagans, followers of Vodun, etc. as Satanists creates massive confusion in the minds of the public. None of these religions and spiritual paths teach the existence of an all-evil quasi-deity, similar to the all-evil, quasi-deity "Satan" that Christian and Islam have traditionally taught.
horizontal rule
A suggested definition:
Such definitions create great confusion, and stir up religious animosity against followers of benign faith traditions. It has been known to trigger lynching, attempted mass murder, fire bombings, shootings, common assaults, etc. We strongly recommend that the terms "Satanist" and "Satanism" be used only to refer to religions that have some direct involvement with Satan in some form. Thus a "Satanist" is one who either:
1. Worships the Christian devil. Although the Christian Churches taught during the Renaissance that devil worshipers were very common, such individuals were in fact extremely rare, and remain so. The very few who do exist appear to be solitary practitioners; they do not appear to have formed an organization.
2. Accepts Satan as a pre-Christian life-principle concept worth emulating. These are religious Satanists, who follow a number of religious traditions, of which the largest by far is the Church of Satan.
Please, share your thoughts on this topic. What is good/bad about it. Understandable/unreasonable? What is the draw? What are the benefits? How does this make you feel?
Discuss.
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Comments
Each of the major religions could be graphed using Freud's definitions. AllPsych Online
Id -the part of the personality which contains our primitive impulses such as sex, anger, and hunger.
Ego- the part of the personality which maintains a balance between our impulses (id) and our conscience (superego).
Superego- the part of the personality that represents the conscience.
Satanists follow the Id more closely than the Superego… a Devote Catholic (truly devote, conservative) would follow with the Superego through the eyes of the Catholic Church.
He talks about spells and he actually has an alter. I don't know. I am not a stereotypical person, and I still accept him as a friend and person. But he was telling me about a spell that you can do to actually see the Devil himself. The way I look at that, why would you want to see something so evil and dark?
I think he might have the wrong idea of Satanism.
Personally, I like things on a lighter note
The same kind of people who would say "i'm so weird. i'm such a freak. look at me".
in other words, satanism for negative attention. it seems like the kind of religion that might attract some people like that.
i personally don't know if magick works (i tried some experiments) it never has worked for me. i suppose thats one reason i like buddhism so much. i change what i need to change by my own need. not words on paper or daggers or altars. some of them DO have very good senses about themselves. some are very funny people, very laid back, very concious of the world around them. some are not. and those ones scare me a bit in how closed minded they are.
(sorry if i offended ot whatever. just speaking my mind
It seems there is a type of person that does not fit in with the stereotypical cliques in society. In fact, possibly, trying to fit into some "group" has caused them more pain.
I think most of the times, the act of worshipping Satan, having an altar, talking about spells they've done or conjuring up Satan - is more of "shock value" that anything else.
I'd also bet you $5.00 that in 5 or 10 years - they'll look back on it and think, "Boy... was I dumb".
The young have often a strong sense of the hypocrisy of their elders and they hear preachers go on about charoty and then get richer. Parents tell their children not to steal or lie whilst doing so in order to "get on"
The 'doctrine' of most Satan-worshipping groups is about Power and, particularly, power in the world. What could be more attractive to a person who feels oppressed and marginalised by a bullying school culture?
My own experience with schools and colleges is that many students long for spiritual answers. Sharing meditation practice with them, without doctrine or dogma, is usually like rain after a long drought.
I think the whole Power issue is an excellent point. I never really thought about it that way while I was writing a response.
Michael
Devil-worshippers are a tad different though. Some only turn to Satan because of anger. Anger of being "put" here, "created", or "born" through the act of God. Many children/young adults see the pain in the world, and it over shadows the good. They have terrible lives growing up with abuse, death, and depression. When they hear that God created this world, and us along with it, they wonder why? Why this suffering? If you are God they help us, please! But they never get an answer. They never get a divine whisper of compassion from God's lips....
Then they see Lucifer. He saw what they saw. He saw the imperfection, and he rebeled. He did what they want to do. He doesn't promise them anything. He leads them by example. Defiant, proud, unapologetic, strong...that is how they see him. And so they join him.
Neither path leads anywhere skillful, but you can see the temptaion a hurt child growing up in a Christian world might have to follow such an ideal.
I've been fascinated by that question ever since I read The Devil Rides Out by Dennis Wheatley when I was 11 or 12. Why should anyone choose Evil over Good?
At school, we read Milton's Paradise Lost and came to the famous lines:
The Miltonian vision of Satan as a giant of ambition and power moves him into a completely different spiritual category. The mediaeval Devil is a pretty simple creature next to this complex and attractive character.
We are surrounded by a society which prizes ambition and material success. Much of this feels to me like being told Better to reign in hell, than serve in heaven.
Add to this the generally unsatisfactory nature of the churches. Also, although only a minority read people like Nietzsche, his ideas have filtered into our own: "God is dead" and his view of Christianity as a milk-and-water deity, weak and unworthy of the new human. And Nietzsche was only systematising something that was already around in the 19th century. Look at Swinburne . Read Huysmans and Wilde, look at Beardsley 's engravings.
Satanism represents all the things the parent generation hates. It is decadent and selfish. It encourages excess and rejects moral criteria. What could be more attractive?
Answer: Perspective.
One way to look, at it Toni, is if God created all things he also created evil in the act of creating Lucifer. God is said to know all things so God should have been well aware of the consequences of creating Lucifer. So logically speaking:
A. God created Lucifer on purpose and brought evil, pain, and suffering into the world
B. God made a mistake in creating Lucifer, not knowing he would rebel
C. There is no such thing as God or Lucifer
A suggests that God has a mean side, so people that see it this way take Lucifer's side because he backed away from God.
B suggests that God isn't perfect and therefore is unreliable. Lucifer also accuses God of this, so people that see it this way see Lucifer as being the truth and God being what's false.
C suggests that both God and Satan are human perceptions and beliefs used to describe the workings of the human mind and universe will no real truth behind them, mostly superstition. Those that see it this way see Satanism as a status symbol, a club of like-minded materialists.
In my life I have followed A, B, and C. I cannot say that any of them are true, I just know that they were ways in which I saw the phenomenon of God and Satan at different periods in my life. In the end it is up to each person to find the truth that they believe in the most. I'm still trying to discover that truth for myself, and I'm sure I've had many mistakes along the way.
To me Satanism always represented the anger at not knowing. Anger at not knowing why I'm here, anger at not knowing what I'm supposed to do, anger at being told what is right and wrong but the same people who tell me these things live their lives in 'sin'.
When people are dissatisfied with one thing the oppisite always becomes appealing. God is the right-hand path, Satan is the let-hand path. Buddhism denies both extremes as being wrong views. I see the wisdom of this and I am putting forth effort to follow the Middle Path.
Obviously, it depends on what you consider "evil" and if "evil" is even bad. While evil is often synonymous with bad, there's more to it than that. Some define "evil" as anything that is in opposition or leading away from their god. Well, I'm atheist - I don't believe in any god. Obviously, a lot of Christians (and others) think that my lack of belief is in opposition to their god and therefore evil. Heck, they might even consider me to be evil since I might lead others away from their god. However, I don't see myself as a bad person. Nor do I think atheism is bad.
Of course, I'm by no means a Satanist and I disagree with a lot of Satanist principles. However, I can understand how the Satanists who are literally devil-worshippers can believe the way they do. The Bible paints a pretty bad picture of the Christian god (in my opinion). Is it such a stretch to believe that some people think god is bad and perhaps Satan is humankind's real advocate?
Bear in mind, though, that there are relatively few Satanists who actually believe in Satan and worship him. Most take things less literally, more symbolically. And even those that do worship Satan don't necessarily believe that things are exactly like stated in the Bible. Remember, they have no reason to believe the Bible is the real truth since it is written by men with or without the divine inspiration of the god that the Satanists already don't trust.
For me this is the simplest element to understand, any religion or belief structure is by definition governed by a set of rules, guidelines.....some of them extremely strict and difficult to adhere to. The common denominator appears to be concerned about always putting others first....altruism, striving for good. The Ten commandments are a good example to illustrate this point. Therefore the reverse must be true, the desire to take short cuts through life are all too apparent, from TV dinners to get rich quick schemes....in fact minimum effort is the order of the day. Satanism cultivates already weak minds along the path of least resistance.
"There are 37.3 million people in England and Wales who state their religion as Christian."
How come the churches are so empty then?
"At the time the Census was carried out, there was an internet campaign that encouraged people to answer the religion question "Jedi Knight". The number of people who stated Jedi was 390,000 (0.7 per cent of the population)"
This was enough to get this considered as a religion....!
Get enough people to jump on the bandwagon, and anything's possible.
My point is that an awful lot of those purporting to be Satanists probably don't have a clue, and are just doing it for the sensationalism of it....! :-/
Basically Satanists are very much like Buddhists, only that they are anti-religion, does that explain everything?
The other kinds of Satanists, the kind who actually believes in Satan, have many different beliefs. Some believe that they will enjoy the sensual pleasures of Hell (Heaven being immaterial and boring while Hell would be like eternal-Earth). Some believe that Satan will eventually take over Heaven, and in the afterlife they will be in Satan's army which will overthrow heaven's gates simply because of the shear enormity of the souls that go to Hell. Some believe that Satan is actually the good guy and "God" is a mean, jealous false god. Those who see Yaweh as false believe that they will be reunited with the true God - Lucifer (Light-bringer). Still others don't care what happens in the afterlife, they just want pleasure and wealth in the here-and-now, bollocks on the aftermath sort of speaking.
Hope that helps your understanding.
Jason
First of all, Jen, I have no evidence that we were 'put' here and that makes a big difference. Our bodies don't have some hidden 'purpose'. They are what they are. And, as they develop, they have their own imperatives. These impact on our minds and emotions arise.
This is not perversion. It is the result of a chain of causes which stretch all the way back into the forgotten past, to the Big Bang. As Brian has said, we can realise that the categories of "right" and "wrong" are as arbitrary as "left" and "right": stand opposite a mirror; lift your right arm; your reflection will lift its left arm. Which is right, which is left? Only you invent the categories.
As my attitude to sex and sexuality is what you would expect from an old hippy, I sha'n't give you any advice, except to say that we are told, in a Zen saying: when you're hungry, eat; when you're tired, sleep. You'll have to add your own ending to: when you're horny......
Namaste :rarr:
Thanks for your participation, and I look forward to more! Anything to help dispel ignorance is welcome here!
Hi, Naas!
Welcome to the site. I am a Correllian Tradition Wiccan myself and I have been made to feel very welcome here unlike some other sites that I shall not name. :grumble:
Anyway, thanks for the interesting post on Satanism. I really had no idea of just what being a Satanist means.
Adiana :mullet: :type:
Although my knowledge of Satanism in its many forms is incomplete, I do feel pretty confident about what I do know. However, I am always interested and open to learning more.
As far as I understand it, Satan was around before Christianity, but not by much. In the Hebrew Torah, later taken on as the Old Testament by Christians, Satan ("Adversary; accuser) was an angel that God uses to test man for various reasons usually dealing with his level of piety (i.e. the test in the Book of Job). Later on in the New Testament (and also some in the Apocrypha) Satan is then portrayed as a fallen angel adverse to God.
Any other religious, philosophical, or intellectual connotation dealing with "Satan" is derived from these theological origins. As an example the relatively new (1966) Church of Satan is merely a materialist pseudo-religion using the imagery of Satan as an attention-getter. The same also holds true for the "Satanists" of the "Black Mass" days, which were mostly falsified Holy Roman Church claims, or upper class socialites out for a good time. Those that truly see Satan as the entity of both the Old and New Testaments also originate from these two theologies. I am also aware of similar, related items - but those are not directly related to "Satan" so I have not included them.
So, naas, if perhaps there is anything else that you can add I would be eager to learn more.
Jason
I'm a herpetologist, and I know for a fact that there are no dangerous snakes, just stupid humans who get in their way then complain.... They've had a lot of bad press over the centuries, ever since Eve decided to try a bite of that nice Cox's Orange Pippin....
However, some Sea snakes are fiercely territorial and incredibly curious... they can be bad tempered, but you just have to respect their space.... which of course, happens to be vast...!!
Black Mambas are perhaps the only snakes that WILL come after you... Their aggression and ferocity is awesome, and they can move at high speed ('outrunning' a man easily) and "stand" on the tips of their tails, often to heights in excess of four feet.
many snakes use mimickry to fend off predators...
The Western-Hognose looks a lot like the Hog-nose Viper (venomous) but is as docile as a kitten. I've owned three.
The banded King Snake looks alarmingly like the Banded Coral Snake, but is also very placid....
The main thing to know about ANY snake is that taming them as pets is impossible. Even in captivity, they're always 'wild'.... they're not like mammals; they'll never recognise you as a person, they'll only get used to your presence, by scent and warmth, as a source of food....
having said that, you treat them with respect, and you'll find them rewarding, educational and, as some of them are highly colourful, quite a nice talking-point....
Nice to meet you Naas....!
In our own tradition in Europe, serpents and dragons were beasts of great power and wisdom. It was not until the coming of Roman missionaries that they were demonised. The pre-Roman, Celtic church revered them.
The story of Saint Patrick banishing the serpents from Erin is a symbol of the victory of Roman (hieracrchical, structured and patriarchal) Christianity over the wisdom Chrsitian 'paganism' that preceded his arrival.
In Indian Ayurvedic Medicine, a snake (the Kundalini) represents the Spiritual Alignment and co-ordiantion of all the chakras, thus uniting Mind Body and Spirit... Yoga means Union, and this achievement is the highest state desired...
In other cultures, the snake represents the constant renewal of Life, due to its lifelong habit of shedding its skin (the 'Old') and emerging brighter, shinier and 'New'....
SAT and TAN
by Tani Jantsang
From the Vedanta and earlier Naga writings.
There is a Dark Force that IS. It is ONE and it is IMMUTABLE REALITY. It is infused into ALL living things - like atma, the BREATH. It animates these living things manifesting as Will. It is One-Thing - therefore, no matter where it is, or what it is in, it is always One-Thing.
But the living things are multiform. No two are alike, and that is a LAW of our Cosmos which this Dark Force RULES as it PUSHES the Cosmos onto constant change, and at the same time consumes it, dissolves it. This is the Mystery of the Serpent that eats its own Tail. No matter what, the Darkness is always ONE. Some call it "none" because they have truly SEEN, but I'm sure the reader can understand ONE-THING better than he would understand "none". I do not wish to be mystical.
In pre-Sanskrit, Deva-Nagari language of Nagas, this is called SAT:
This Dark-One-Thing IS what animates living things. The living things come in MANY forms. Probably any form you can imagine, exists - somewhere, or at sometime. As such, these things are ALL inter-related -- as if THEY TOO, are One. Death is only the dissolution of this animating One from a given life form. Then the flesh-form of the living thing goes thru rapid change. It's atomic or molecular structure falls apart. (Molecular - a living creature; atomic, a star like the sun).
To be able to look at a cat, for instance, and SEE that animating Will, that Darkness infused -- this is the most BEAUTIFUL and awesome thing I can imagine. And to KNOW: "I am that TOO". To look at a seed, and watch it become a tree. That growth, that Will to BECOME what it IS --- that is the same Dark-One-Thing in the tree.
There is a chain, like a sequence to this all. One could call it a food chain if one could truly see matter as it is moving thru time - forming a WEAVE, a pattern like in cloth. Big fish eats little fish. Bird eats fish. Some animal eats the bird - and so on. Sometimes there is symbiosis and two distinct things merge to become another wholly other thing - like mitochondria evolved. It might seem "violent" to some - but that is due to their ignorance of the Laws of Nature. Each animal (and plant) in all of their multi-forms, IS what it IS, and that Dark-One-Thing infused into it, URGES IT to Will-to-Be WHAT IT IS, and do what is innate for them to DO. They flow on a Cosmic Wheel that SPINS and never stops spinning. The Dark-One-Thing SPINS it, whirling. We experience this as TIME. And we experience time usually as change.
Each of the all-different living creatures (and plants) have a Law of their OWN Nature. This Law is the result of HOW this Dark-One-Thing is "stretched" so that it is INFUSED INTO THEIR particular being-flesh-ATOMS. How it is infused, is called TAN (as in Tantra).
1. The creature lets-go to its own nature and the FLOW of its own being.
2. The creature KNOWS its own boundaries, it knows who and what it is.
3. It is connected to its parents, who are connected to their parents, who are connected --- all the way to the slime, and ultimately, all the way back to the ROOT before the Cosmos came into being.
4. The creature follows its own Nature without even thinking about it - it is automatic.
5. The creature is in-tune, at-peace with its own chakra-flow and each part of its own being.
There is a 6th principle too, though it is not TAN. It is connected to the Abyss, it is a defender, though it really seems more like a Child: Innocence. This Innocence is like a "sparkle in the "Eye" of the Great Dark" like a shining diamond child. ALL Black or LHP magicians KNOW this! NONE would harm it!
The disrespect for what another creature IS, is a violation of ALL principles of life. To hunt for food is normal. All animals do this as per a chain of life. But that is part of innate survival instinct. Disrespect means to NOT HONOR what another creature is. Or a human not respecting WHAT another human of another type IS. This disrespect is EVIL, it is like a war against the Great Darkness and it is thus, a war against the Self. The Dark Breath in that other person is the SAME Dark Breath that is in the offender. And, the Dark Breath CAN withdraw.
The turning of an animal, or a person, against himself, is a war against INNOCENCE. And it is a One Way ticket into the Abyss, as the destroyer destroys HIMSELF. Judeo-Christians have waged this war over and over and yet they SEARCH for Deity. They look for "a Light". They do not realize that the Great Darkness IS THE LIGHT WHEN it is ANIMATING a living creature.
It is THIS that they've turned their own backs on and waged a war on
http://www.thefirewithin.dk/library/sattan.htm
also on the other subject of snakes and serpents here's something i found that was interesting http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/5789/serpent.htm?20057 hopefully these links work...again didn't mean to come off as a selfrighteous asshole, I'm a pisces so i'll blame it on my inability to express myself :winkc:
However, wouldn't that make you a Sat-Tanist instead of a Satanist?
I'm just pulling you tail.
Jason
I promise you, nobody here has the opinion that you're a self-righteous asshole.
Quite the contrary, I think your contribution to the discussion was both well-researched and constructive.
Pisces the Fish, heh?
Now here's a few interesting facts....... just kidding....!!
Based on the work of Alfred Watkins (The Old Straight Track 1925), we can now trace trackways across Britain which appear to follow supposed lines of a mysterious force (as yet undetected by scientific methods) which the ancients named wouivre, or Serpent (?Dragon) Power.
I'm not quite sure how they can enjoy worshiping Lucifer but I can understand why. Its like the question of "Why Not?" and whos better than who. Lucifer can offer anything a person might want, and you get it too, much faster than what god would give, for you have to die before that happens and you have to be "good" too. But its soo much easier and it feels so much better to be bad.
A person gets a thrill when they lie and when they cheat, its like... they know something that other people don't, and they feel special because they do.
Lucifer makes people feel special.
:scratch: Its a little weird I guess... how I can get that. ... geesh I'm really weird. But a person might think "What good has god given me?" and then "What can satian give me now?" Lucifer is a drug, the trill of doing bad things dosn't last long, so you just keep doing them to get the rush again.
Lets talk teen. "Blame mom/dad/parents for my crapy life, no wait... its not their fault, lets blame the devil then, yeah, hes the evil one, no wait... if it wasn't for God, he wouldn't be here."
A person who might enjoy worshiping Lucifer might think that. They may be mad at God, because God could fix whatever God wanted whenever god wanted, but he lets people suffer.
Does that make any sense?
I guess it really depends on your perspective. Are you familliar with the myths about the Greek titan Prometheus? He defied the Olympians in order to help mankind. Among other things, he gave man fire. I've been thinking that Satan and Prometheus might be similar figures in that they challenge the head god in order to help humans. After all, Satan seems to want that we humans enjoy ourselves, it is God that punishes us for doing so, right? Of course, I don't believe in either, but it is interesting to see connections between different religions.
Dearest DK,
This must be one of my favourite 'games' in reflection: Turn the Myth on Its Head. I learned it first from reading the 'gnostic' texts from Nag Hammadi and came across revisits to the Eden myth which did just that. Here's a brief summary of such a "head-over-heels" approach:
Yhwh made a garden and put human beings in it, tempting them by forbidding them to gain knowledge. Yhwh is a 'demiurge', an artisan deity, the son of the Mother, Sophia. He is jealous of his Mother and is attempting to create his own personal court, similar to the angelic host that surrounds the Throne. He does this by cobbling together, from mud and ruach (breath/spirit), imitations of himself. He withholds the element of wisdom which is that part of the Mother that deifies. Because Love cannot be totally excluded from anything arising from the Abyss through the creative power of Wisdom, however selfish or unskillful the intent of the 'creator', the garden contains the Tree of Knowledge. So Yhwh, jealous son and denier of his Mother, has to forbid its fruit, which is the taste of wisdom.
Snakes and dragons are viewed, in most mythologies, as wise and beneficent creatures. Judaeo-Christian myth and legend have 'demonised' the snake. Saint Patrick even banished all the snakes from Ireland - I have often wondered if this explains the legendary 'stupidity' of the Irish so beloved of the parodists. Imagine, however, that the snake is, actually, a messenger (angel) from the Mother. In the wonderful Cretan statue of a priestess/goddess, the woman holds snakes and there are hints of 'serpent power' throughout the Old and New Testaments.
The Snake comes to the woman, who most resembles the Mother and is more open than the Red Man who is more like Yhwh. He offers her the missing part of herself because the Mother is always working to gather her offspring. The Snake is, also, the first coming of the Logos/Christos into the Yhwh-sculpted world.
Myths turning cartwheels, like Alanis Morisette as God in Dogma, reveal more than at first anticipated