Disturbed Friend; Advice Please?

laurajean

I know this is a buddhist forum, but I am hoping for some Buddhist-minded advice on this situation. I posted "Hugs" on an out of state friends' Facebook page, and he responded with this:

"...Oh Laura, real hugs would be so nice right now. Instead I live in this cold vacuum of space we call life, dwelling on the ghosts of the past, and wondering when the sweet cold touch of death will finally end this f**king bulls**t I dwell in..."

Needless to say this shocked and saddened me. I told him to email me privately and elaborate, but I am not sure what I will say. I do know he has gone through a divorce and lost all contact with his son, which crushed him. However this was a year, maybe 2 years ago, but I don't think he can get past it.

I suspect he will email me any moment. Anyone have anything insightful that I might say to him? He's not Buddhist, not very religious, but considers himself "christian" in general.

I want to offer sincere advice, but I honestly don't know what to say. What do you say to someone in such despair? Any genuine suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. He's open minded enough where I could offer Buddhist quotes, if anyone can think of anything appropriate.

Thanks.

Jeffrey

I'm not very good at this but I have been very effed up and I called a hotline and they basicly just asked me what was going on with me. I am not sure exactly how they put things or transitioned between my explanations.

But telling my pain to someone was helpful and it let me know that I did have an outlet. In the same train of thought remember you have your limitations and I would recommend not stepping into a role you are not comfortable or familiar with (too much).

Anyways thats what I recall.

laurajean

I know it's "not my job", but I want to be there for him in the best way that I can, but he's so "stuck", and I just don't know what to say. I've been out of touch with him for a long time, so to hear he's still so depressed is surprising. I just wish I knew what to say.

Jason

My advice is to just do your best to be his friend. It sounds like he needs someone to talk to more than anything.

Jeffrey

I wonder if wishing him strength to endure between times of support would be like something he could remember to give strength. Or some other catch phrase between you. For a friend of mine it was Endure. But I think that worked between my friend and his doctor because of the communication and roles and magic?

dorje

I know it sounds bad. @Jason gave the best advice I think. However it may be difficult for us to be one.

Also, ensure it does not become a crutch for him to offload his stresses and need for attention. It can escalate into Facebookhausen Syndrome.

Jeffrey

I don't want to make this about me, but if anyone can PM me if I am giving bad advice I welcome input.

laurajean

I am like an emotional sponge. I use the analogy to people about couches getting scotch-guarded before leaving the factory: I feel like I never got scotch guarded at birth. I absorb everything, peoples' feelings, etc., like a sponge. I try so hard to detach from that, but it is a fault of mine.

Plus, regardless of my extra sensitivity, I would think any friend would want to say something supportive to a friend, and I'm just not sure what that is. He's probably heard it all, "things will get better", "hang in there", "move on", etc. I wish I could offer something insightful for him.

laurajean

I wonder if wishing him strength to endure between times of support would be like something he could remember to give strength. Or some other catch phrase between you. For a friend of mine it was Endure. But I think that worked between my friend and his doctor because of the communication and roles and magic?

Well Jeff, a few months back we talked and he said he know he needs to move past this. I said "No, don't move PAST it, move THROUGH it. Really feel it, don't try to keep shutting out the pain. Embrace the pain, and then move forward, right through it, the bad and the good..." That was the best thing I could offer at the time.

Jason

I am like an emotional sponge. I use the analogy to people about couches getting scotch-guarded before leaving the factory: I feel like I never got scotch guarded at birth. I absorb everything, peoples' feelings, etc., like a sponge. I try so hard to detach from that, but it is a fault of mine.

Plus, regardless of my extra sensitivity, I would think any friend would want to say something supportive to a friend, and I'm just not sure what that is. He's probably heard it all, "things will get better", "hang in there", "move on", etc. I wish I could offer something insightful for him.

Don't feel bad. My usual response to something like that is, "Damn, that really sucks. I wish I knew what to say. If there's anything I can do to help, though, just let me know. You wanna go get a beer or something?"

Jeffrey

That sounds insightful to me. For me there was a seeing that the pain wouldn't last forever but that it was what was on my plate and to granted that it was on my plate to decide what I wanted to do with my day. Small activities give us well something to do and get our minds off the tapes in our heads. Theres a lot of ways to look at this and when your really down your energy isn't flowing right and you get stuck to negative tapes. Breaking that up. Osho is kind of wacky but I was reading him and he suggested to just start singing in the shower. He even mentioned that if you did it every day it would just be the routine. That you have to keep flowing and growing. Like hot potato almost?

pegembara

Something I digged up

Most painful emotions spring from memory— hence the value of staying in the present moment. When recalling a painful memory— whether of a broken heart, the loss of home, health, career, or the death of a loved one— remember that the painful event that triggered the feeling is no longer actually occurring in the present. Although the event is over, we tend to cling to it in the mind. But that only generates more suffering.

Or sometimes we worry about the future, dreading the loss of wealth, youth, or health that hasn't yet occurred. But none of these imaginings is real in the sense that none is actually happening at the moment we are thinking about it. If it did occur in the past, it no longer exists now. What might or might not happen in the future does not exist right now, either. Why should we let the mind drag us into unnecessary suffering? That doesn't mean we shouldn't plan for the future. But there's a difference between behaving responsibly — doing what needs to be done— and needlessly suffering over things that may never happen, or are already gone; things which, in both cases, we cannot control. Suffering about past or future events can only arise when we fail to stay in the present. So don't fast-forward or rewind.

Jeffrey

If you could suggest some kind of meditation practice even walking or exercise where during that time he tries to get in the present. Because those tapes are tenacious as heck. They keep popping up again and a again. And if you don't have practice with awareness you try to make things better and your still searching.

My dad suggested that I set aside a half hour to worry. And that during that time I was allowed to worry. Then the rest of the day I try to attend to the business at hand and live one day at a time mindset.

laurajean

Something I digged up

Most painful emotions spring from memory— hence the value of staying in the present moment. When recalling a painful memory— whether of a broken heart, the loss of home, health, career, or the death of a loved one— remember that the painful event that triggered the feeling is no longer actually occurring in the present. Although the event is over, we tend to cling to it in the mind. But that only generates more suffering.

Or sometimes we worry about the future, dreading the loss of wealth, youth, or health that hasn't yet occurred. But none of these imaginings is real in the sense that none is actually happening at the moment we are thinking about it. If it did occur in the past, it no longer exists now. What might or might not happen in the future does not exist right now, either. Why should we let the mind drag us into unnecessary suffering? That doesn't mean we shouldn't plan for the future. But there's a difference between behaving responsibly — doing what needs to be done— and needlessly suffering over things that may never happen, or are already gone; things which, in both cases, we cannot control. Suffering about past or future events can only arise when we fail to stay in the present. So don't fast-forward or rewind.

Wow, nevermind my friend, that helped ME! Seriously, good advice (for him and myself). I will repeat that to him. He has not emailed yet, so perhaps he was depressed and went to bed. But I am sure this will come up again, perhaps tomorrow. Who said that Pegembara, do you know?

laurajean

If you could suggest some kind of meditation practice even walking or exercise where during that time he tries to get in the present. Because those tapes are tenacious as heck. They keep popping up again and a again. And if you don't have practice with awareness you try to make things better and your still searching.

My dad suggested that I set aside a half hour to worry. And that during that time I was allowed to worry. Then the rest of the day I try to attend to the business at hand and live one day at a time mindset.

Someone said that to me or I read it a long time ago. It's a good idea. I've tried it but it hasn't worked for me. I don't seem to have an "off" button when it comes to worrying, but I'm very glad that it works for you.

Jeffrey

It didn't work for me either. :-/ To be honest. But hearing that said made me laugh. The idea that I am allowed to worry! And then I go back to trying to be in the present. Totally unpractical probably. Well I did actually try it.

The irony was that when I tried to worry I couldn't do that really lol. But then the worry came back after a moment.

I gave my comment because pegembra is spot on, but the actual experience is that the worrying keeps popping up and you can get into a mindset where you are battling worrying or battling ego or whatever. And that gets you into all sorts of ideation that prevents calm and healing.

Jeffrey

Music can help. Peter Gabriel Don't Give Up... Cindy Lauper True Colors.. But probably something from his generation whatever that is.

laurajean

Well, I feel like we are describing ME now more than my friend, ha ha. I think my friend isn't worried, I think he's stuck. Just stuck in the depression of the loss of his child to his ex. He does not see his son ever now, and it has crushed him. He just can't seem to let go. Can't get involved in relationships with women, etc., because he is too self absorbed in 'being stuck' and self pity. He has said that many friends have tried to talk with him and get him to snap out of it, but he just can't. I'm not sure what to say to the person with that mindset.

Jeffrey

Man so painful. I know more about worrying than grieving although I did lose my mental abilities and independence. But not my child. I don't think relationship is right at this time. It would probably be way codependent. Romantic I mean. Genuine relationships without so much on the line are good though. Very good.

laurajean

Personally, I'm in the same place Jeff. I've always had a man in my life, a husband at one time, or long term boyfriends. This last year has been the first time in my life that I've been alone. It's not that I don't want to be with someone, but I'm really just trying to take this time to get to know myself again, and not live for someone else. I'm in no hurry. When the time is right it will come. I think this is a good thing actually; getting to know myself this last year has been interesting. But I digress, enough about me.

My friend was horribly hurt by his ex wife, she falsely accused him of abuse (or so he tells me and I have no reason not to believe him), took their child, who is not biologically his, but he feels as though he is his son, having raised him from birth, and left without any contact again ever. He is truly devastated. I like you, can't imagine that pain.

zombiegirl

i always thought i was terrible at being the shoulder to cry on, because like you, i never knew what to say. the book "Anger" by Thich Nhat Hanh really helped me out with this. in it, he talks about compassionate listening. basically, sometimes there is nothing to be said that can take away another person's suffering. what's best is to really listen and really be there for them. you don't need to say something profound, sometimes just telling them you care is all that really needs to be said.

on a side note, my girlfriend once told me that she hated sharing her problems with me because i would try to give her all sorts of advice. and sometimes, people don't want answers or advice, they just want to know that you're there for them. things became a lot better between us once i learned how to really listen.

laurajean

i always thought i was terrible at being the shoulder to cry on, because like you, i never knew what to say. the book "Anger" by Thich Nhat Hanh really helped me out with this. in it, he talks about compassionate listening. basically, sometimes there is nothing to be said that can take away another person's suffering. what's best is to really listen and really be there for them. you don't need to say something profound, sometimes just telling them you care is all that really needs to be said.

on a side note, my girlfriend once told me that she hated sharing her problems with me because i would try to give her all sorts of advice. and sometimes, people don't want answers or advice, they just want to know that you're there for them. things became a lot better between us once i learned how to really listen.

Very interesting; thank you! Maybe "just being there" is the key, as opposed to having answers or advice.

Jeffrey

Yeah I don't know the specifics of having been wronged and grieving. All the stuff with my ex girlfriend that I had been wronged I was able to get over. In that sense another relationship would help get his mind off the ex, but not off the son. And like I say given that he is so down it might be unreasonable that he could be mutually supportive with a woman I mean he might get destroyed again. I had a lot of help from my parents. Grieving is very similar to depression I have been told. Maybe look into resources on dealing with depression (or grieving) and hook him up. Even when we are in deepest blackness we still wish that we could have something different. Even when it seems like we don't wish anything and cannot move. We still wish that THAT wasn't so.

Jeffrey

Or dealing with anger. Thats probably central.