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How to balance out happiness with Career goals, money and time?

edited March 2011 in General Banter
I am 23, a little behind on life, I'm a guitar teacher not working many hours... I was thinking about going back to school but so many things come into play:
-Do I want to spend 4-5 years getting a degree?
-If I worked another job would I move up and like the it just as much without spending time on the degree?
-If I don't go to school and have a low income job, what would that be like for a family?

I have the option to get a warehouse job possibly with my half brother, or perhaps go back to school. If I worked the warehouse job, maybe I could open up my own music school one day? It's so hard because there is no guarentee in that ofcourse... Basically to school or not to school? and what kind of money does a family need?

ty

Comments

  • CloudCloud Veteran
    If you're asking for advice based on that, I'd say... get a degree, that way if opening up a store isn't the primary thing you want to do or it doesn't work out, you're not stuck doing warehouse jobs the rest of your life. What's on paper matters to employers more than anything nowadays.
  • LostieLostie Veteran
    edited March 2011
    I once read a "self-help" book on work-life balance. It is said that one cannot achieve balance. You have to go all the way. And Buddhist teachings seem to support this view, ie You don't hold back coz' you will be distracted.

    Do it first and talk later about balance.
  • @cloud I think your right cloud, thanks
  • BhanteLuckyBhanteLucky Alternative lifestyle person in the South Island of New Zealand New Zealand Veteran
    I can only answer from my own experience: I chose happiness. Career + money came a distant second.
    I did a degree in Philosophy because it was interesting. I have a low-paying part-time job as a Tour Guide because I love it. I'm financially poor but I have freedom and time to do what I want.
    I do not have a family however, nor do I want to start one. That would change the equation completely, and you might have to put aside temporary happiness for career and money to provide for them.
  • well im in the violin business, would you consider apprenticing at a guitar shop and learning to repair instruments, thats what i did at a violin shop for 8 yrs in the 80s, however you have to think will the guitar business die with the economy, i know our local guitar shop is struggling, however you won't have to worry about interest in guitars dying out like it is with violins... good luck, if you could repair guitars, teach guitars and sell guitars, i think you should be able to keep a job, and the pay would be as good as some college ed jobs. sincerely john
  • What kind of money does a family need? Enough to feed them and put a roof over their heads.

    In the end, you have to decide what direction you take in life, but remember one thing. Life laughs at our plans.

    There are a lot of people with college degrees right now who are forced to work at low paying jobs, if they can even find a job. There are lots of miserable, divorced men who thought family was all about how much money you can spend on it.

    But being broke and hungry is no fun, either. So try to practice the Middle Way. College is no guarantee, but an education is never a waste or useless. Don't put off a relationship until that magic moment when you have enough money to feel secure, but don't blow every dollar you get as soon as it's in your hand, either.

    Remember, life isn't something out there waiting for you, it's what is happening right now.
  • imagine how much money you need to survive today,then double or triple that, and thats how much you might need in the future if things get worse, thats the downside of my guitar repair business idea.
  • I don't think education - if it's something you're interested in - is ever wasted. Education for the sake of putting letters after your name might very well be. But any kind of vocational training (violin making, for example) can't be wasted...
  • except in my case, mountains, i havent really sold a violin in three months, but i have one on ebay for 10,000, and a customer coming on tuesday that says its "in his price range"!! fingers crossed.

    the thing is i got into violin repair in the early 80s when it was a foolproof way to make money, and then the economy dived, the market was flooded with underpriced chinese imports, and classical music in schools, half the market, dissapeared.

    and now because of my manic depressive disability, i can't hold a regular job and its too late to learn something else, thank xxx for ebay, its put good food on my plate, literally, the local market is dead.

    if your young and looking intelligently to the future, thinking of a job, think of something that will never go out of style, no matter what the economy, like a firefighter or paramedic, expensive guitars in 20-30 yrs might be as out of style as violins are today, that was my point.
  • If you are going to go to college/university, ask yourself why you want to go.

    I think people are too quick to advise people to go to college. I myself have the same doubts, and people seem to always miss the point. Life is not about getting a job. Anyone can get a job. Getting a job you love, that's the tricky part...and how much does college help you in that department, in itself?
  • Most people dont know what they want in life.
    Just do what feels right to you. Go to college if you are unsure.
    You can always quit college halfway.
  • We all now know what you guys say, but what would the Buddha say?
  • I am 23, a little behind on life,...
    Awww. You youngsters sound so cute when you say things like that ;)

    You haven't even emerged from the first stage of life yet. Just because culture and governments tell you you are supposed to have graduated and be already on the rungs to corporate success doesn't mean anything. You have all the time in the world (and then some, if you believe in rebirth).

    A few ramblings for your cogitation:

    First, there is a level of material wealth below which happiness is hard if you have a family. Not many people in North America or what we call "The West" have experience of being below that level. *Above* that level, there is very little correlation between happiness/wellbeing/etc and how wealthy you are. So if you are going to have a family, get above that line but then your priorities become something else.

    Second, surely this is where Buddhism comes into play? For me that's certainly why I'm looking into Buddhism. I was brought up not too far above the line, but am now *well* above it. And for me personally, and for everyone else I know and have discussed this with, I can say that height above the line does not correlate with happiness *at all*.

    What else. Well, all that notwithstanding, is it possible to arrange things (as opposed to have them just happen) so as to have both wealth and happiness? Well, I *suspect* you can, but I'm not sure. And *if* you can, I suspect that the way to do it is not to aim at either. Do what you love, love what you do, and remember that people and relationships matter more than anything, and I *suspect* that maximizes your chances.

    Some books to help your deliberations:
    -"Let My People Go Surfing", by Yvonne Chouinard. That's the one that changed my interest-from-a-distance in Buddhism to something more concrete
    - "The Element: How Finding Your Passion Changes Everything", by Ken Robinson. You can also watch him on www.ted.com
    - "The Happiness Hypothesis" by Jonathan Haidt

    Notice -- I haven't mentioned university degrees at all. I have two, so I don't knock them entirely. But honestly, these days they are mostly economic signals. A Harvard degree is a career-enhancing degree primarily because it's an expensive degree which is because it's a career-enhancing-degree which is because it's an expensive degree...

    As I say, I don't knock them entirely. That career-enhancing effect is very real. But you don't need a degree to be happy or successful. And it may be that to be wildly happy and successful, you're better off *not* having one.
  • We all now know what you guys say, but what would the Buddha say?
    In the Buddha's world, people didn't have the luxury of deciding what career they wanted or if they should go to school or if they should get married. That was all decided by their family and society or caste. Options severely limited to doing what's expected of you or dropping out completely.

    Buddha would say it doesn't matter in the end, that whatever you do, you're going to suffer and the Middle Way can be followed single or married or in college or standing on a street corner playing a guitar for change thrown at your feet.


  • In the Buddha's world, people didn't have the luxury of deciding what career they wanted or if they should go to school or if they should get married. That was all decided by their family and society or caste. Options severely limited to doing what's expected of you or dropping out completely.
    Are you saying that PeaceandLove would be better off if he is incarnated as a bee?
    Buddha would say it doesn't matter in the end, that whatever you do, you're going to suffer and the Middle Way can be followed single or married or in college or standing on a street corner playing a guitar for change thrown at your feet.
    Well, to the Buddha it did matter. He was pretty single-minded about what he did not want to do with his life and was determined not to suffer.
  • edited March 2011
    Peace/Love: who are you kidding? Yourself, I guess. The economy is in the pits, and likely over the years will get worse, since there doesn't seem to be any political will in the US, at least, to do anything about it. And in the future, we can probably count on more weird scams like the banking industry mess, not to mention terrorism, etc. causing economic crises. You didn't tell us what country you're in, but ANYONE with an option to go back to school would grab it in this economy. Why volunteer for a life of financial struggle (money problems tend to destroy marriages, you know) when you don't have to? An advanced degree (I assume you already have a BA, or did you drop out? If you dropped out, all the more urgent that you drop back in) would give you more job security. Nothing will /guarantee/ you job security, but if you have the option, go for the degree. There are people on this forum who never had the option, and would love to be in your shoes. Heck, I know a whole community of Tibetans that would love to be in your shoes, instead of working as cashiers and janitors. Count your blessings, Peace. Don't throw 'em away. A mind is a terrible thing to waste, Peace. Make the most of the one you have.
  • ravkesravkes Veteran
    edited March 2011

    Buddha would say it doesn't matter in the end, that whatever you do, you're going to suffer and the Middle Way can be followed single or married or in college or standing on a street corner playing a guitar for change thrown at your feet.
    I agree. Ultimately you're going to be dealing with the same things. You experience through a body, so anything past a certain level of survival is literally up to you (you create most else with your mind)..

    The happiness, jealousy, anger, joy, bliss, sadness, depression, love..

    We cling to questions and statements like: "Find your passion.." "Do what you love.." "What makes me happy?" "Am I living life right?"

    Without even really giving a thought to the question: How do people find happiness in different things? How can one person LOVE to do math and another person absolutely despise math?

    This raised the question in my mind that seems to be more relevant: Is happiness based on the external phenomena (people, things, places, your job, on and on..) OR is it simply a state of mind that we choose to cultivate regardless of the circumstances that we find ourselves in?

    I found that if I meditate and simply see things as they are, happiness is cultivated by itself irrespective of the situation I may be in at that point in my life.

    Honestly speaking, no one can tell you where to go. However, I will tell you that I was in a similar situation and seeing this helped. Hopefully my viewpoint sparked something.

    :)
  • ... A mind is a terrible thing to waste,
    True, but a university degree is not the only (or even the best) way to avoid wasting it. Ken Robinson here is talking mostly about pre-uni schools, but I believe it applies to universities too: http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_changing_education_paradigms.html
  • I am new here, and just joined today;) I think this is such a great topic, and enjoy ALL of your responses so much. I am 29, newly married, and am doing a lot of soul searching, in my career, social life (my love life is great, but am new to Washington, DC, moved here from South Florida bc my husband got a great job ,and am trying to make friends, etc...) and start up makeup and skin care business. Its really hard to follow my own ways and be risky, when I feel that everyone around me that lives here are all running to work, or to their luncheon...idk, just doing things in a scheduled manner. I work part-time as a freelance makeup artist for Chanel here, but still, I feel I am not happy here. So I am learning about Buddhism, and this site has really helped me to enjoy the here and now.
    Thank you!
    Lesile
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited March 2011
    -Do I want to spend 4-5 years getting a degree?
    -If I worked another job would I move up and like the it just as much without spending time on the degree?
    -If I don't go to school and have a low income job, what would that be like for a family?
    4-5 years is a piece of cake, Peace. Just do it. It'll be over before you know it, and you may make some lifelong friends while you're at it. (Pssst...there are WOMEN in college! Everywhere, even in your classes!) Or you could acquire a trade (do you have mechanical aptitude? Like Epicurus says, it doesn't have to be about university, a 2-year trade school or community college could set you up just as well).
    You might get lucky and get a job that moves you up. What do you have to offer an employer, that would convince him you're worth moving up? That's the question. And could you hack the responsibility for supervising other employees, if they moved you up? Could you discipline people?
    What would it be like for a family? C'mon, Peace, you know the answer to that one. The more important question is: what would it be like for YOU? 20 years from now, still working the same grunt job, or one maybe a step or two up from entry level, bored out of your skull, but still putting in your time, 'cause you need to eat, can't retire--social security is worthless, so you just gotta keep putting in your time for ANOTHER 20 years, even though you hate it. Think about it.
    And let us know what you decide.
  • I have the opportunity to get a phd in clinical psychology studying mindfulness meditation. Its sort of ideal, but I have a lot of hesitation. Undergrad wiped me out. It took a lot to get the grades I needed to pursue a higher degree in psychology. I did it, and now i'm already burned out. My plan is to take a couple years off trying to find myself and repair the damage, then go get that degree.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    a phd in clinical psychology studying mindfulness meditation.
    It sounds great, Kunga! Keep that vision in your mind, as you take your time off to recover.

  • Peace/Love: who are you kidding? Yourself, I guess. The economy is in the pits, and likely over the years will get worse, since there doesn't seem to be any political will in the US, at least, to do anything about it. And in the future, we can probably count on more weird scams like the banking industry mess, not to mention terrorism, etc. causing economic crises. You didn't tell us what country you're in, but ANYONE with an option to go back to school would grab it in this economy. Why volunteer for a life of financial struggle (money problems tend to destroy marriages, you know) when you don't have to? An advanced degree (I assume you already have a BA, or did you drop out? If you dropped out, all the more urgent that you drop back in) would give you more job security. Nothing will /guarantee/ you job security, but if you have the option, go for the degree. There are people on this forum who never had the option, and would love to be in your shoes. Heck, I know a whole community of Tibetans that would love to be in your shoes, instead of working as cashiers and janitors. Count your blessings, Peace. Don't throw 'em away. A mind is a terrible thing to waste, Peace. Make the most of the one you have.

    That's advice on survival. How many people that survive and that based their most important life decisions on survival get to be happy in the end?

    If one shouldn't waste the opportunity of a higher education maybe you could tell me what the criteria for picking a major should be.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran


    If one shouldn't waste the opportunity of a higher education maybe you could tell me what the criteria for picking a major should be.
    One way is to try different classes and see what really "clicks" with you. Others go about it more rationally, and aim for a field that's in demand and likely to stay in demand for sometime. I know people who chose not to get a higher education, or who dropped out, and now they regret it, because now their funding source is no longer available.

    But I agree, Epicurus, that too many people are sent to university just because the parents say it's the thing to do. Some people would be much better off learning a trade, and in fact, have real talent for working with their hands in some way.

  • Go for what you think will make you happy. Something you look forward to doing. If this means getting a degree in the field you want to get into, then go for it, don't let anyone tell you can't do it, I mean you can have the best paid job in the world, but its pretty pointless if you hate doing it.


    Metta to all sentient beings
  • One way is to try different classes and see what really "clicks" with you.
    It's the only thing that makes me envy systems like the US one. I don't have that luxury where I live. Can't just try different classes on for size.

    But actually for me, it goes beyond that. There are so many life paths that aren't imagined by an university curriculum. And so many majors that are worthless in the job market once you are out of school.



  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    I keep forgetting that European univerisities are different.
    There are so many life paths that aren't imagined by an university curriculum. And so many majors that are worthless in the job market once you are out of school.
    You're right, there are many paths/jobs/careers not envisioned by a univ. curriculum. And you'd think some majors would be worthless, but some are quite flexible. I know a woman who had a generic English major when she graduated in the US, got a job as a bank teller, and now is a high-up bank administrator. I don't know to what extent the job market has changed since she greaduated (she's 40), and if one can still work one's way up in a bank, they way one used to be able to (or in any field). Maybe everything's a lot more narrowly-focussed now.

    A niece of mine just graduated with a brilliant BA in international economics, or something, and she took off for Germany where she's working just a grunt sales job, but she likes being in Berlin.
    Are we digressing from the OP? I can't tell. ;)
  • thanks all
  • I am 23, a little behind on life, ...

    ty
    at 19 i got married
    at 21 i had my first child
    at 29 i started college, part time
    at 35 i finished my nursing degree
    at 44 i started my MBA, part time
    at 48 i finished my MBA

    all along the way, i worked at jobs, took opportunities that i was interested in, paid for most of the classes as i went (both degrees took me twice as long as most people), and watched life surprise me as i used my degrees in ways that i could never have predicted nor planned for.

    but both have been very useful in my career, and i never regret getting them. i also never regret waiting until it felt right, as you will notice that i did not do this in the traditional route.

    i say follow your heart but don't go into debt for college, and it will only be of benefit to you in your future.
  • edited March 2011
    Personally, I dun have a degree and working a low-medium income job, I am happy and enjoying life. Some high income with good degree may not be living very happily, and some other having good degree may not have good offer either. Some even commit suicide. You ought to know how to make full use of money and time for the well beings of others, be compassion, benevolence and loving-kindness, rather than being exploited by money :thumbsup:
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    I can only answer from my own experience: I chose happiness. Career + money came a distant second.
    I did a degree in Philosophy because it was interesting. I have a low-paying part-time job as a Tour Guide because I love it. I'm financially poor but I have freedom and time to do what I want.
    I do not have a family however, nor do I want to start one. That would change the equation completely, and you might have to put aside temporary happiness for career and money to provide for them.
    Interesting!
    Would love to hear more!
  • I can only answer from my own experience: I chose happiness. Career + money came a distant second.
    I did a degree in Philosophy because it was interesting. I have a low-paying part-time job as a Tour Guide because I love it. I'm financially poor but I have freedom and time to do what I want.
    I do not have a family however, nor do I want to start one. That would change the equation completely, and you might have to put aside temporary happiness for career and money to provide for them.
    Life is full of choices. You really know what your priorities are, so you made the right choices for you. Good work!:thumbsup:
  • Everyone here seems to have a tough time with life. Would you guys be Buddhists otherwise?
  • Will the day when Americans cant feed themselves ever come?
    I dont think so, not in my lifetime anyway.
    Americans dont know how lucky they are.
    Buddha would say, become a monk.
  • I dont think I would be interested in Buddhism if I did not suffer.
  • Everyone here seems to have a tough time with life. Would you guys be Buddhists otherwise?
    I think I found happiness in Buddhism - after spending years climbing the corporate ladder (believing that's where my happiness is) and in this false sense of fullfillment I realised in a brutal way that happiness isn't through a career. Its about the overall quality of your life!
  • Hey lotus, obviously you must have had a rough time on that ladder. Sounds like you are no longer on that stairway to the stars anymore. Did you quit, get fired or got laid off with a golden handshake? What are you doing now?
  • I devoted myself too much - I ended up very sick in a hospital with a range of health problems all the hospital staff kept enquiring about my stress levels. When I got back to work and in the swing of things I kind of had this random moment of being fully awake of how that job was burning me out - and aware of how meaningless my life became! I had my fixed term contract terminated out of the blue!

    I just woke up and thought ok I'm in management - why am I still not happy?
  • To be honest the way I feel now is a career should be number 10 on a list of importance- I put my life on hold for that damn job that now I back and think, what for? Its pointlless to think the materialistic things will ever make you happy!


  • I just woke up and thought ok I'm in management - why am I still not happy?
    It's the pressure, lotus. Being in management means you take the heat. You know why you are still not happy? The reason is because you are being used by the guys who ARE really in management: the owners of the company you work for.

    Does terminating your contract help? How will you earn a living?
  • Well they kind of tossed me out but I'm taking the time to do a career change and lifestyle change too! The thing is I look back now at some of my colleagues from that job and I realise how sad their lifestyle is. I got to move away!
  • Not all lifestyles are sad. The point is the deck is stacked against most of us. The top 1% have it all while the other 99% have sad lifestyles that more often than not come to a dead end. Turning to Buddhism appears to be the answer because that's where that 99% are. You have company. If you don't use your brains, you will move from one disaster to another.
  • Its just that the company I worked for were vicious in the cuts made I'm very aware of maintaing my values and remaining compassionate (wise compassion only!) Now I let that go - I took the good and left the crap!
  • It's a tough world we live in. Are you sure you are not making it worse letting your values get in the way?
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