Enlightenment and Monastic Life

meh_

Okay firstly, sorry for all of the posts asking questions, Im just keen to learn more.

We have all been lucky enough to have a human life, furthermore, one that has knowledge of the road to enlightenment. Surely, it is of huge importance, if not the most important thing possible - to reach enlightenment. Therefore, why isn't every buddhist a monk? I must have something wrong here, please correct me.

zidangus

Well speaking for myself, for all the reasons I gave in your last post.


Metta to all sentient beings

meh_

I saw that, Im just confused, because I may not be as lucky in the next life, and not be in a position from which i can attain enlightenment

SherabDorje

Don't be sorry for all the posts. You ask good questions.

Not everyone is really cut out to be a monk, so we just do the best we can. It's better than no Buddhism at all.

meh_

Ah okay, thankyou Sherab. So, do you think that if we do buddhism to the best extent that we can - that we will get a second shot at a human life? Another chance to try for enlightenment?

SherabDorje

That is what I believe, but really only on faith. There are others that would disagree about the second shot at human life.

meh_

Write now I would say that I am worried about not attaining it, which, with 300,000,000 buddhists worldwide - and very few to have reached enlightenment, seems rather silly to me.

Talisman

There ia very very high likelyhood that you will not attain perfect and full enlightenment in this life. It's like starting out on a very long journey. Just because the destination is not in sight doesnt mean you aren't getting there.

meh_

How many times are we reborn though, surely this is a limited figure - the world will end some time.

Talisman

there is no beginning and no end

compassionate_warrior

It's been posted many times on this forum that lay practitioners can reach enlightenment. Relax, meh, and enjoy your journey.
We always need more good, interesting posts.

meh_

there is no beginning and no end

Please elaborate

SherabDorje

If you are considering the ideas you express you appear to be tending toward Mahayana. In some forms of Mahayana, there are endless realms and universes to be reborn it. There will be plenty of places for you to be reborn. Just keep on keeping on.

Again, my remarks on rebirth are simply based on my own sort of personal faith. Just IMHO.

meh_

Hmm I think I'll try to avoid the topic of rebirth for now... because hopefully it wont be relavent for a few decades, and I'll just try to focus on the 'now' instead of the 'later' :P

But sheesh, you can't win with this eightfold path thing can you - too much effort is wrong effort

compassionate_warrior

Yes, the Buddha, in his infinite wisdom, did a pretty good job of setting up "this eightfold path thing". Carry on, meh.

meh_

Yes, the Buddha, in his infinite wisdom, did a pretty good job of setting up "this eightfold path thing". Carry on, meh.

zidangus

there is no beginning and no end

Please elaborate

Think of a circle, no beginning and no end. Well some Buddhists think the Universe is like this.(me included)

Again wiki gives a nice overview.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology

Metta to all sentient beings

hermitwin

meh, you have expressed what Buddha said.
'Strive while you have the time' paraphrased.
Why people dont do it?
The same reason people dont exercise or quit smoking.
Laziness, procrastination, complacency, their life circumstances.
Or even lack of faith in the path to liberation.

Spaceless

Therefore, why isn't every buddhist a monk? I must have something wrong here, please correct me.

Is like asking why isn't every citizen a PM or President :thumbsup:

May this merits of sharing be dedicated to all beings

cranreuch

There ia very very high likelyhood that you will not attain perfect and full enlightenment in this life.

Can you put a number on that? 99%, 90%, 75%, what?

Then, regardless of the number, if meh_ is able to reach enlightenment eventually then presumably there will come a "life" in which he/she *is* likely to attain what you just said. In that case, what is it about meh_ right now, compared with what he/she will be in that final pre-enlightenment life, that enables you to say he/she is unlikely to make it in "this life"?

hermitwin

'too much effort is wrong effort '
I think when Buddha said this, he was refering to the extreme practices
of ascetics who starve themselves unto death.

DhammaDhatu

We have all been lucky enough to have a human life, furthermore, one that has knowledge of the road to enlightenment. Surely, it is of huge importance, if not the most important thing possible - to reach enlightenment. Therefore, why isn't every buddhist a monk? I must have something wrong here, please correct me.

You can probably answer your own question by asking: "Why am I not a monk?

To me, it sounds like you are putting enlightenment up on a pedestal.

A true monk has discontment as his cause or motivating factor. Discontentment is a certain kind of existential suffering; very intense.

Most Buddhists are not discontent. They still enjoy their pleasures, their relationships, etc, but they take an interest in Buddhism because they want their lives to run more smoothly, with more understanding, wisdom, love, compassion, etc.

Sometimes people ordain because they put enlightenment up on a pedestal; as though it is the Mercedes Benz or Rolls Royce of happiness; rather than ordaining because they cannot find contentment in ordinary worldly life.

Generally, those looking for the Ferrari of happiness do not last long as monks. Buddha said the cause of faith in Dhamma is suffering.

With metta

Talisman

There ia very very high likelyhood that you will not attain perfect and full enlightenment in this life.

Can you put a number on that? 99%, 90%, 75%, what?

Then, regardless of the number, if meh_ is able to reach enlightenment eventually then presumably there will come a "life" in which he/she *is* likely to attain what you just said. In that case, what is it about meh_ right now, compared with what he/she will be in that final pre-enlightenment life, that enables you to say he/she is unlikely to make it in "this life"?

I don't know. You can disregard my previous statement.

Palzang

Actually the reason that people are or aren't a monk is very simple: merit. It takes a lot of merit to become a monk or nun. That doesn't make them better than those who aren't, just that in this life they have a lot of merit ripening. The more connection you make with the Dharma, the more chance you'll have of becoming a monk or nun in a future life - or even this one. But it doesn't really matter. I've known some terrific practitioners who were laypeople and some really cruddy ones who were ordained. It's still about what you do, not what kind of clothes you wear. Anyone can attain enlightenment in this life, right here and now, but very few do, monk or not. It's entirely up to each and every person. I personally wouldn't worry about it. Just do the best you can. Anyway, the only thing you need to be to become enlightened is to be reborn a male! Just kidding!

Palzang

yiming

We have all been lucky enough to have a human life, furthermore, one that has knowledge of the road to enlightenment. Surely, it is of huge importance, if not the most important thing possible - to reach enlightenment. Therefore, why isn't every buddhist a monk? I must have something wrong here, please correct me.

Similarly, if Jesus Christ is truly at the altar at mass, why isn't every Catholic straining to get close like rock fans at a concert instead of hanging back at the rear of the church?

You are asking a "why isn't the Emperor wearing any clothes" question, meh. People who ask such questions would be closely watched by the police in China.

meh_

Good thing I live in the UK

Dakini

Meh, you don't have to be a monastic to reach enlightenment. And many people who are monks don't belong in the monkhood. Life isn't black-and-white.

Dakini

Similarly, if Jesus Christ is truly at the altar at mass, why isn't every Catholic straining to get close like rock fans at a concert instead of hanging back at the rear of the church?

Is Jesus Christ supposed to be at the alter at mass? I thought just his blood and flesh, in the form of little biscuits, were there. Why is Christianity about cannibalism, anyway? I never understood that. And they say Tibetan Buddhism is macabre, with all the skull-cups and thigh-bone trumpets, and all. :-/ At least they don't eat their liberator's flesh and blood. Go figure.