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Could Someone Help Me With This Quote?

laurajeanlaurajean
edited March 2011 in Arts & Writings
“All other foes that I appease and wait upon, will show me favors, give me every aid. But should I serve my dark, defiled emotions, they will only harm me, draw me down to grief.” ~Shantideva

Can I get a few people to rephrase that simply so that I can be sure I understand it. The last part makes sense, but the first part confuses me a little. Thanks!

Comments

  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    Show patience and level-headedness? Um, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger?

    Thats my interpretation. Perhaps its wrong.
  • cranreuchcranreuch
    For most dangers in life -- insults, attacks, poverty, etc -- I can turn them to my advantage by submitting to them. But in specific the case of the danger of emotions that can lead me to attachment -- those I should not submit to.
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    In my post, I was referring to the first part, by the way.
  • cranreuchcranreuch
    In my post, I was referring to the first part, by the way.
    Yep, as I said: "For most dangers in life -- insults, attacks, poverty, etc -- I can turn them to my advantage by submitting to them."

  • laurajeanlaurajean
    I guess I still don't get it. SUBMITTING to these insults, attacks, poverty, etc?? I can see accepting, or awareness of, or letting these things come and pass, but submitting to them?
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    Submitting = accepting.
  • IronRabbitIronRabbit Veteran
    Accept : Surrender


  • laurajeanlaurajean
    Submitting = accepting.
    Really? Okay. I guess I am thinking of acceptance as to "reconcile with", as opposed to submitting, which I tend to think of as to "subject oneself to a certain treatment". Maybe that's still the same thing, I don't know. I was thinking you can reconcile with something bad, yet still not condone it, whereas submitting to it would be to give in to it.

    Even as I'm typing I don't think I'm making sense, lol. Maybe I'm just over-reading the quote, I don't know...

  • laurajeanlaurajean
    edited March 2011
    Okay, but why does it say these foes he "accepts" will aid him and do him favors??

    The second sentence is so clear to me and makes perfect sense. But it's that first sentence that I just can't reconcile, or understand.
  • cranreuchcranreuch
    edited March 2011
    Okay, but why does it say these foes he "accepts" will aid him and do him favors??
    Because it's saying that we grow through (most) adversity. See MindGate's Nietzsche reference. It's saying that most adversity, if we "accept" it, will make us stronger/better etc.

    But the main point of the verse is the second part, which you get. In other words, the sense is (my all-caps):

    ALTHOUGH all OTHER foes that I appease and wait upon, will show me favors, AND ACTUALLY give me every aid, WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE SPECIFIC FOES KNOWN AS my dark, defiled emotions, then if should I serve THOSE FOES, well they will BRING NOTHING BUT harm TO me, AND draw me down to grief.

    Or, back to Nietzsche again, but paraphrased now:

    If a trial or adversity fails to kill us then in fact it will make us stronger, so don't try to avoid such things. However, there's an exception to that rule. Those trials and adversities arising from our dark, defiled emotions, even if they don't kill us, may well maim us and do us deep harm. So those you do well to avoid.
  • laurajeanlaurajean
    Okay, thanks guys.

    Couldn't another even simpler way to word it be: "We are our own worst enemy"?
  • cranreuchcranreuch
    Couldn't another even simpler way to word it be: "We are our own worst enemy"?
    Nice. :D
  • dorjedorje
    The gist of the paragraph is that whatever actions your enemies throw at you, the correct way to react to them is to accept them and not give them back the same thing. That way, you can use them as tools for practice, to develop patience, humility, restraint. Only then can you really see what true compassion is.
  • fivebellsfivebells Veteran
    Couldn't another even simpler way to word it be: "We are our own worst enemy"?
    obversely, there is a tibetan saying, "your worst enemy is also your best teacher."
  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    “All other foes that I appease and wait upon, will show me favors, give me every aid. But should I serve my dark, defiled emotions, they will only harm me, draw me down to grief.” ~Shantideva

    Can I get a few people to rephrase that simply so that I can be sure I understand it. The last part makes sense, but the first part confuses me a little. Thanks!
    Analogy land. Mixed with a little similie and then inverted. Dark emotions are seen as your enemy and then compared to a physical enemy, a foe. Instead of fighting him, if you submit to your enemy and become his lacky (appease and wait upon), he'll treat you kindly at least. But dark emotions can't be appeased.

    Of course, not all foes will treat you kindly if you submit to them, but it's an interesting analogy.

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