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Why is There Change?

MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
edited March 2011 in Buddhism Basics
In Buddhism, we know everything is constantly changing and in flux...

But why? Or is this another imponderable...

Comments

  • It's the nature of life for everything to arise, thrive, decay, and die. Nature has change built into it.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    There's no way to know why, but to observe that it is the nature of all phenomena to change is a part of the process of awakening.
  • Basically, we are all reborn into the common phenomena of the same solar system from past karmic consequences that come together either for good or bad or worst or to be liberated. So, in this short lifespan of existence, we ought to help one another to live happily and enjoy quality life :thumbsup:
  • zenffzenff Veteran
    Phenomena are empty of inherent existence. They depend on causes and circumstances; which are empty of inherent existence too.
    The way to understand reality is to see processes which are made up of processes and which are part of larger processes; without anything ultimately existing producing them or coming from them.

    In a universe of interdependent empty phenomena there is no permanence.

    Imho of course, and maybe it doesn’t explain much but it’s just different ways of saying the same thing.

  • In Buddhism, we know everything is constantly changing and in flux...

    But why? Or is this another imponderable...
    At the risk of starting another "obvious" thread, why would that be imponderable? It's not exactly unique to Buddhism is it? The counterstatement:

    "Not everything is constantly changing"

    seems far less obvious.

    I'm not getting something.

  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    Because if there was no change, nothing could 'come into being' and exist.

    The alternative is crystalline nothingness.
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    In Buddhism, we know everything is constantly changing and in flux...

    But why? Or is this another imponderable...
    At the risk of starting another "obvious" thread, why would that be imponderable? It's not exactly unique to Buddhism is it? The counterstatement:

    "Not everything is constantly changing"

    seems far less obvious.

    I'm not getting something.

    Christians believe in the eternal, unchanging God and the eternal, unchanging soul.
  • SabreSabre Veteran
    edited March 2011
    Why do things change?

    Because they don't stay the same. :p
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    Why do things change?

    Because they don't stay the same. :p
    Why?
  • SabreSabre Veteran
    Why not? :D
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    Why not? :D
    Why not let things stay the same?
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    We'd let things stay the same if we could. We don't want to age, we don't want to lose money once we have it, we don't want to lose the people we love, we don't want to lose happiness. That's just not how things work.
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    As pointed out this isn't just a Buddhist idea, nothing in the universe is fixed, permenant or unchanging. We would like things to remain the same and this generates problems for us as everything is inconstant. Nothing is static.
    All the best,
    todd
  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    edited March 2011
    MG,

    I like the metaphor of the present forces looking like the contents of a stomach. Its always changing because there are forces of digestion at work on components that are unique in content and being pulled apart. Its not a matter of "letting" things stay the same, but recognizing that they are not static.

    But trying to imply that we have some control isn't particularly helpful in my opinion. For instance, light is not still, it is an expression of energy. Why isn't it still? Because it has energy. "Why not let light be still" is erroneous, because we are not the impetus of every wave's journey, and if it were still, it wouldn't be light.

    "Why not let things stay the same" is erroneous because its in the muddied observation of transitions that we apply the false notion of the static "things". In the absence of projected static qualities, there are no things.

    with warmth,

    Matt
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Do you want to stay a kid for ever?
    do you want the same questions, and the same answers all the time?
    Do you want to always be subject to your parents' responsibility and control?
    Do you always want it to rain?

    Would you prefer ALL things to stay the same?

    What's the actual point of your question?

    And really, I am curious.....
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited March 2011
    In Buddhism, we know everything is constantly changing and in flux...

    But why? Or is this another imponderable...
    It is not an imponderable

    But then we will need to get very scientific & answer an infinite amount of questions such as:

    (1) how did bacteria form?

    (2) why do things rot & dissolve?

    (3) what is heat?

    (4) what is water?

    (5) why does water evaporate with heat?

    (6) why does water erode earth?

    (7) what is earth?

    (8) what is mind?

    (9) why does mind change?

    (10) is mind dependent on the body?

    the list of questions becomes endless

    :hrm:
  • edited March 2011
    In Buddhism, we know everything is constantly changing and in flux... But why?
    Good question! How do you know that everything is constantly changing and in flux?

    image
  • things change because we "perceive" it as change.

    "How do things come into existence? They are the effect of a cause. How did the pen come into existence? Could the pen come from itself? Do pens multiply by itself? Is it not from something else. Things no not happen for no reason!

    Is the pen an effect of its cause? No.
    But But if something happens then it has to have a cause.

    Are effects the same as causes? How can an effect be the same as a cause? If they were the same, how could you distinguish between a cause and an effect. So are causes and effect the same or are they different. Well they have to be different.

    If the result was the same as the cause, why would you need a cause? It would already be there.

    The cause and effect of a pen. Various materials (cause) are made into an effect (pen).

    How can one thing bring about another?
    How can an orange bring about an apple?
    If they are different (inherently), how can one thing turn into another? How can plastic turn into a pen? Plastic is always plastic.

    If cause and effect is different, then which came first the cause or the effect? Well obviously the cause comes before the effect.

    Is a cause a cause before the effect comes about? No. The cause is not a cause until the effect of the cause occurs. So which comes first the cause or effect?

    Does the effect come about as the same time as the cause? No. We went over this. We couldn't tell them apart then.

    When you have an effect, where is it's cause? The cause is gone.

    In what sense does the cause bring about the effect, when the cause isn’t there when the effect comes along? Cause and effect is impossible"

    -Lama Marut talk

    Imagine everything as a singular thing. then imagine things coming out of that singular thing. we label those things and forget that it was once a singular thing. we attach meaning to those labels and create narratives from those labels. we forget that the actual thing originally had no name. we just decided to call it something. but originally everything is like a blank slate and is one.

    Absolutely: there is emptiness (the ground to existence).
    Relatively: there is the form that changes. we overlay an idea on top of it.





  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    edited March 2011
    So yes there is change, but there isn't.

    Now idk why change happens but I do know that existence itself is creative.

    It is creative for the sake of being creative.

    None of this has any Buddhist basis though and is just speculation from my head.
  • Do you want to stay a kid for ever?
    do you want the same questions, and the same answers all the time?
    Do you want to always be subject to your parents' responsibility and control?
    Do you always want it to rain?

    Would you prefer ALL things to stay the same?

    What's the actual point of your question?

    And really, I am curious.....
    I think Federica's question, and as it is identified further in thecaps last post, good one consider ... what questions we ask of ourselves and seek answers to will influence greatly our experiences. Whilst this isn't one of the topics which falls into the imponderable questions it isn't one that can be easily be given an answer to rather it is something which we can see and know.
    As a good and wise friend of mine said to me once, our children are a great lesson in change and impermanence.
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    But, then, I suppose we could ask: Why are things conditioned? :p
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2011
    Ooooh - isn't this known as moving the goalposts? :D

    neatly done, though! :lol:
  • DaozenDaozen Veteran
    Without change, nothing can happen. Nothing.

    For "things to stay the same", we are talking about being frozen in place like statues. Doesn't sound like much fun.
  • I get frustrated because often times the change appears to be purposeful or meaningful. When we look at the evolution of the cosmos and life itself, there seems to be growing complexity and intricacy, as if there really is some design or purpose behind it all.

    For a better idea of what I'm talking about, check out this video series:
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    We don't know the whys yet. We know there's cause and effect, conditioning, that everything happens for one or more reasons. As far as we can tell, the fact that things do change based on cause and effect is the nature, the underlying order, of reality. There's no way to tell "why", so at this time it'd be an imponderable.
  • And there's no reason to believe WHYS make any sense outside of the human mind.
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