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rituals in Buddhism
Vincenzi
Veteran
one of the fetters is "attachment to rites and rituals".
rituals are not an important part of some buddhists' practice, and as far as I know there's no ritual described in the sutras.
what do you think is the role of rituals in Buddhism? should we formalize a "no ritual" practice?
rituals are not an important part of some buddhists' practice, and as far as I know there's no ritual described in the sutras.
what do you think is the role of rituals in Buddhism? should we formalize a "no ritual" practice?
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Comments
Attachment to anything leads to suffering. Attachment to meditation and dharma teachings included. Bows or common exchange currency in the form of language also needs to be used skillfully rather than attached to.
The fact that a ritual is practiced need not be a deal breaker due to the fetters. The only necessity is not to get attached. Both meditation and 'props' rituals and gestures can be used skillfully but with an effort not to become attached.
The Buddha said that neither the repetition of holy scriptures, nor self-torture, nor sleeping on the ground, nor the repetition of prayers, penances, hymns, charms, mantras, incantations and invocations can bring us the real happiness of Nirvana.[3] Instead the Buddha emphasized the importance of making individual effort in order to achieve our spiritual goals. He likened it to a man wanting to cross a river; sitting down and praying will not suffice, but he must make the effort to build a raft or a bridge."
http://sped2work.tripod.com/fetters.html
Even in the Zen Monastery I went to, they chanted the Heart Sutra before beginning quiet sitting.
For eg, walking silently in a line when partaking food.
When you have a group of people, you have to decide what
you want them to do eg at meditation retreat.
Some people like it, they dont know how to behave in the temple.
I agree that rituals are just a tool, not critical.
In answer to Vincenzi's original question, I don't think it's appropriate to formalise having no rituals. However, IMO, I think rites and rituals are artefacts of a human clinging to perform such things. Some may find them useful in achieving a certain mind-state though. I myself just feel silly chanting in a language that I am unfamiliar with or paying homage to a symbol or icon. This is the reason why I consider myself to be a non-religious Buddhist. Saying that, I have a small Buddha statue in my house and that reminds me of the precepts and the eight fold path that I attempt to adhere too.......maybe a slight contradiction.
http://www.patheos.com/Library/Theravada-Buddhism.html
I think most rituals are local traditions that emerged after Buddhism spread.
I doubt that it is a lack of scholarship!
Also you should be saying Dhamma if you are Therevadan
So at some point in time I had to decide which spellings to go with, not being associated with any school, and I chose the ones the greatest number of people use and would recognize. Even if I associated with Theravada, I think I'd use the Sanskrit anyway!
also a ritual.
Its good to question but dont throw the baby out with the bath water.
How many of you will refuse the rituals of a wedding or college graduation?
Really if you are going to take a piss on other traditions make sure the wind isn't blowing back at you
If you need a full definition that would be a religious occasion to show respect for an event/achievement/anniversary in accordance to convention which would include a series of actions performed according to a prescribed order.
My view is that I don't need them in order to understand or practice the Dharma.
I'm not keen on any kind of religious ritual - Buddhist or otherwise.
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P.S. Vincenzi--let's stick mainly to your "what do you think is the role of rituals in Buddhism" question, and leave the last part, about formalizing a no-rituals rule, since that seems to be the part that's upsetting people.
I tought the fetters were part of all schools.
Can you back this up with a source? Where did you hear that?
but as it becomes more apparent, Buddhism is very diverse.
Vince and everyone, I think despite good intentions we really cannot control how others will practice. I was confused in this discussion if it was about 'rituals should not be used for reason x y and z'. That would be interesting. Or if it was 'whoa I am confused why are they doing rituals if that would reinforce the fetters?'.
So I think if we clarify what we are talking about it will clear out some defensiveness and let the people interested in whatever is being discussed gravitate. What do you think?
The problem arise when rituals become the main focus.
It works for some people. Not everyone likes reading books & meditation.
A simple bow is how people greet each other in East asia.
it is more about the latter:
"why are they are doing rituals if that would reinforce the fetters"
handshakes are not rituals, they are costumes or traditions.
by rituals I guess the fetter refers mostly to religious rituals.
Muslims say that having a statue of Buddha is idol worship.
Do you agree?
Yes, for some people they are fetters.
For other people they are means to an end and have significance although the people involved are not attached to them.
So I think your point is made that for some people they are fetters.
But it's pretty academic because those Buddhist groups that use rituals probably aren't going to give them up.