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Morality of violence in video games.
I am doing a research paper on the opinions of American Buddhists on violence in video games. In aid of this I have five questions for the American Buddhist community (regardless of their sect or level of practice) regarding their opinions on the subject. Those who reply will remain anonymous within the context of the research paper. I appreciate any and all responses and I thank you for your time in advance. Additionally, if I am posting this in the wrong section of the forum, please tell me and I will post it elsewhere on the site.
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:DocumentProperties> <o:Template>Normal</o:Template> <o:Revision>0</o:Revision> <o:TotalTime>0</o:TotalTime> <o:Pages>1</o:Pages> <o:Words>190</o:Words> <o:Characters>1083</o:Characters> <o:Lines>9</o:Lines> <o:Paragraphs>2</o:Paragraphs> <o:CharactersWithSpaces>1330</o:CharactersWithSpaces> <o:Version>11.1280</o:Version> </o:DocumentProperties> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotShowRevisions/> <w:DoNotPrintRevisions/> <w:DisplayHorizontalDrawingGridEvery>0</w:DisplayHorizontalDrawingGridEvery> <w:DisplayVerticalDrawingGridEvery>0</w:DisplayVerticalDrawingGridEvery> <w:UseMarginsForDrawingGridOrigin/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> <!--StartFragment--> 1. Does extinguishing a life in a fictional realm such as in a video game conflict with the teachings of the Buddha? If so, is it the act, the mindset of the individual committing the act, a combination of both, or something else entirely that creates the conflict?
2. If violent behavior or intent within a game in wrong, is proper behavior or intent within a game positive?
3. If violent behavior can be triggered in a minority of video game players who play violent games, is it then wrong for those who are unaffected by the games to play and support the games financially thus essentially enabling the violence of those the games do affect?
4. In cases where violence is used to teach the player concepts of morality or consequence, can the violent presentation be overridden by the positive message? For example, Dante’s Inferno contains graphic depictions of nudity, sexuality, violence, and suffering in Hell, but uses it to express a story of redemption from one’s sins via the reconciliation with those who have wronged or been wronged by the main character as well as an escape from the illusion of one’s thoughts and ego. Can the substance of the story outweigh the gratuitous expression of violence therein?
5. Why do you think violence in a participatory form of media could contribute to violence in one’s actual life?
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<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:DocumentProperties> <o:Template>Normal</o:Template> <o:Revision>0</o:Revision> <o:TotalTime>0</o:TotalTime> <o:Pages>1</o:Pages> <o:Words>190</o:Words> <o:Characters>1083</o:Characters> <o:Lines>9</o:Lines> <o:Paragraphs>2</o:Paragraphs> <o:CharactersWithSpaces>1330</o:CharactersWithSpaces> <o:Version>11.1280</o:Version> </o:DocumentProperties> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotShowRevisions/> <w:DoNotPrintRevisions/> <w:DisplayHorizontalDrawingGridEvery>0</w:DisplayHorizontalDrawingGridEvery> <w:DisplayVerticalDrawingGridEvery>0</w:DisplayVerticalDrawingGridEvery> <w:UseMarginsForDrawingGridOrigin/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> <!--StartFragment--> 1. Does extinguishing a life in a fictional realm such as in a video game conflict with the teachings of the Buddha? If so, is it the act, the mindset of the individual committing the act, a combination of both, or something else entirely that creates the conflict?
2. If violent behavior or intent within a game in wrong, is proper behavior or intent within a game positive?
3. If violent behavior can be triggered in a minority of video game players who play violent games, is it then wrong for those who are unaffected by the games to play and support the games financially thus essentially enabling the violence of those the games do affect?
4. In cases where violence is used to teach the player concepts of morality or consequence, can the violent presentation be overridden by the positive message? For example, Dante’s Inferno contains graphic depictions of nudity, sexuality, violence, and suffering in Hell, but uses it to express a story of redemption from one’s sins via the reconciliation with those who have wronged or been wronged by the main character as well as an escape from the illusion of one’s thoughts and ego. Can the substance of the story outweigh the gratuitous expression of violence therein?
5. Why do you think violence in a participatory form of media could contribute to violence in one’s actual life?
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Comments
Buddhism teaches to never hurt a sentient being. When you're playing a video game and killing someone in it, you're actually killing pixels. Created for the sole purpose of being harmed, the same way and reason a punching bag is manufactured. It is a natural type of entertainment for some people, the same way people enjoy boxing, MMA fighting or porn.
It is extreme action or sex for entertainment, without actually risking it in real life. And rarely in the video game is the victim of the violence an actual victim. Usually it is another warrior who has challenged you or another soldier who died by the weapon as they used the weapon themselves. So it is all harmless entertainment, as I have been playing these games my entire life and have never done anything worth going to jail for.
The mindset I have when playing violent video games is that I'm looking to unwind, be entertained and blow some steam. Same as maybe someone who would want to watch a good movie or fight a punching bag.
I don't think video games teach you to be a better person. But I believe they can take the edge off of your potential for violence/cruelty due to you acting it out on a video game instead of holding it in. So in that sense video games should help because they get rid of repression.
I disagree that violent games affect people to be more violent. So when you're financially supporting a video game by buying it or paying for a subscription you support it the same way you support a PG-13 or R movie by seeing it in theaters or getting it on dvd.
Most good violent games I played do not try to justify the violence by making it righteous in any way. Retribution can feel right, but all it does is cause more pain or blood shed and continue on the cycle. The characters tend to be a shade of gray rather than black or white. They're only for entertainment purposes to unwind, and not meant to teach good morals.
I disagree that violent video games encourage real life violence when played properly. For example, a 9 year old should never be playing grand theft auto. GTA is meant for players 17+ years of age, by this age they're old enough to not be influenced so much by a game.
But on the exception, if a 9 year old played GTA for days they could be influenced in a negative way because then it is building their brain to have less of a conscious towards being violent. But this is not the fault of the video game, it is the fault of the parent/guardian who let that child play that type of video game. That age of child should be playing Nintendo games that are properly rated.
I think several things will make someone violent in their real life, but video games are usually less to blame than the actual society around them. The most violent people I know are not gamers, but the gang members on the street that were not made that way through video games.
Do the opinions of non-American Buddhists, not count?
The UK has been strongly and pervasively influenced by many-things-American (not all good, in my opinion) and I think we have as much a voice as American Buddhists.
FWIW, I hate these games.
The Intention is the key.
Kamma is created by wilful, intentional action.
I personally don't care if it's pixels. The intention to maim and do harm is there, and the excuse that it's simply venting and letting off steam, is to me, personally a fatuous one and a cop-out.
I refuse to believe that there are no other ways that people could vent, let off steam and release....
I really do not intend to insult or belittle anyone. I'm talking about what people choose to do, not who they are....
But the very action of engineering a bunch of pixels to inflict harm and maim or kill another bunch of pixels, is to me, exactly the same as someone sitting down to design a weapon exclusively created to cause as much damage as possible. Of course, they won't personally be pulling the trigger, so they won't personally really be hurting anyone...it's just an outlet for their creative and artistic side....
But my opinion doesn't count.
so forget I said anything.
Actually i believe this is a small minority.
I believe most video game players are playing with a similar state of mind as someone playing soccer (wink to the Europeans
Even when killing other players, which i can imagine it might be difficult, for someone who never play video games much, to conceive.
But this minority is still important and should not be forgotten.
Some people do use video games as a way to release the steam accumulated from a unskillful way of facing reality.
"1. Does extinguishing a life in a fictional realm such as in a video game conflict with the teachings of the Buddha? If so, is it the act, the mindset of the individual committing the act, a combination of both, or something else entirely that creates the conflict?"
In my view of things, it is impossible to commit murder while being compassionate. So when playing these video games, it is possible that someone might grieve for what they are killing, but it is more likely that they giggle at the wanton murder and violence. "I'll pwn your ass" is more common than "I lovingly respect your pixels"
I don't think its contrary to the teaching of Buddha, because he just illumined what is there. I think that any time you put away your compassion, you are doing yourself an injustice, game reality or not.
"2. If violent behavior or intent within a game in wrong, is proper behavior or intent within a game positive?"
In my view, there are certain moral conditionings that are helpful. Games can teach nobility, honor, the effect of good deeds. It would be nice if these were picked up in a place where you didn't have to behead hordes of creatures, but if you're looking for the lotus in the shitpile...
"3. If violent behavior can be triggered in a minority of video game players who play violent games, is it then wrong for those who are unaffected by the games to play and support the games financially thus essentially enabling the violence of those the games do affect?"
I don't think so. In the words of the Moody Blues: "Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss." Until a mind is ready to evolve past violence, it will have a need to express itself. If it weren't a game it would be something else. I used to pick up sticks and shoot my friends with them when I was young.
Supporting violence isn't really a good thing because it brings confusion and suffering to the person engaging in it, but there is no need to extrapolate into other people's baggage.
"4. In cases where violence is used to teach the player concepts of morality or consequence, can the violent presentation be overridden by the positive message? For example, Dante’s Inferno contains graphic depictions of nudity, sexuality, violence, and suffering in Hell, but uses it to express a story of redemption from one’s sins via the reconciliation with those who have wronged or been wronged by the main character as well as an escape from the illusion of one’s thoughts and ego. Can the substance of the story outweigh the gratuitous expression of violence therein?"
Its like drinking a glass of mud-water. If there is a low enough concentration of mud to nourishment, then it might be ok, if a little icky tasting. The higher the levels of goop inside the media, the worse it becomes for the imbiber. There are more efficient ways of learning how to act... ways that do not hurt the heart.
Also, its different to walk a street of fantasy and see lots of death and chaos, like in the Inferno, and to be the protagonist doing all the killing, such as Grand Theft Auto. The availability of lessons in morality are less apparent when we act as the immoral, then when we are shown immoral in contrast.
"5. Why do you think violence in a participatory form of media could contribute to violence in one’s actual life?"
If there is not enough reinforcement of social morality outside the video games, and the minds are gaining much of their understanding of how things work from these games, then certainly. I think it takes a special kind of neglect for a person to be this confused. I do think that there is a quest to be the next most horrific thing for some publishers, and that seems like a pretty dark path, for them and for fans.
Just because a person thinks the violence is not affecting them does not mean that it isn't. A person might not think about slaughtering a pig or cow, or might experience it without discomfort... but that does not mean they are not causing harm upon the world.
I don't think your points are invalid, but I think you have to look at the emotional and mental happenings during that time, rather than thinking just "stress relief"
Hence the sport, competition example.
This is precisely what i was looking at...
can you please correct me if you think i misunderstand you?
Thank you.
I mean that to know this assertion you make, you'd have to specifically understand the individual emotional connections during the games. Often our own perceptions of groups is through false consensus, thinking they think and feel like we do.
When I have played online games, I find the environment to be full of trash talk and dissonant ideas, unskillful relating and so forth... with only small pockets of compassionate friendships. My experience is perhaps more limited than your own though.
Also, in soccer the goal isn't to kill the other players, or "pwn their newb asses"... and how much violence has arisen in the face of ball kicking? Just pondering, not declaring your points invalid.
With warmth,
Matt
My guess is it is much the same, people playing sports tease each other very much, it's part of the fun for many and definitively part of the games.
Couple this with the much amplifying effect of the anonymity of the internet... also add the age of the people playing, younger ones who can finally say whatever come to their mind, who can even take the role of the bully for once...
and the result is what you hear and read when you play video games...
I would go so far as to predict that most of the video games played by a more mature crowd, people will talk to each other and behave in matters very similar to what you can observe in chess tournaments.
Even playing chess, trash talk can be quite intense...
Very very few people actually kill people in video games. They just score score a goal, made a good match etc...
Do not take offense to this, but your post honestly made me laugh. Hate is such a strong word for video games its just a bit humorous to me. I think for you to think that just means you haven't actually played many of the modern games yourself. Video games come in as many genre as movies do now days. Surely you enjoyed some action movies.
The action games are simply the same type of genre that action movies are. Only you're playing through the movie instead of watching it. I love to fight huge monsters or skillful warriors in games. It is a fun experience for me. It is not about murderous intent, it is all about enjoying the fight and game play experience.
When you murder someone they stop living, they're dead forever. It is a tragedy. On a game the pixels are dead, but you could always restart the game and do it again, so they're not actually dead and nothing wrong has been done. They were designed to challenge your hand eye coordination and entertain you in an artistic fashion.
It is not just about venting. It's a form of entertainment. If you do not find boxing or any type of fighting sport entertaining well that is probably why you wouldn't find violent games entertaining either. It's a lot of the same type of competition and principles behind it. Besides a gamer I am also a Kendoka of many years.
The principle in a Kendo match can be seen as two fencers trying to score a point on each other. Or two samurai with a sword trying to kill each other in one cut. The people watching the match will often have one of either of those views. There is no harm done though in the match, because both participants who are facing each other with the bamboo sword have agreed to partake in that fight.
It is the same as a video game. It is not about murderous intent. Since both sides agreed to it, it's all about challenging yourself and for the thrill of the fight.
The reason why online games are full of people who trash talk and act like jackasses is not because of the game itself. It is because of the internet generation. It is easy for people to say whatever they want on here because there is no face to face. Me, I always try to speak on here as I would in real life, but I know my generation.
My generation has grown up using the internet and online games so much, so now they know it doesn't matter the way they act on here. It's a shame, but I see it so often myself when I play online games. Real life competition is different though. I do know, as I have competed many times in both games and sports.
There is not so much trash talk when its in person. Sometimes there is, but it is very rare compared to online gaming. I doubt the trash talk will lessen as the years progress, but for those who don't like it the real face to face competitions always have better sportsmanship.
I will not on any account watch horror movies, blood gore and gratuitous violence or films with violence as a direct selling point. Even films with violence in them as a by-the-by leave me cringing and cold.
At least with F2F combat, it's an equal and voluntary input, and controlled. it IS sporting - though again, I really don't see how boxing fits into that...
It's gladiator fighting, modern times. trying to bash the brains and blood out of your opponent is just stomach-heaving, in my opinion.
People have died, and lost their mental faculties.
How is that, a 'sport'?
Thank you for putting your points over eloquently and logically.
I respect your stance, and understand your reasoning.
I just don't agree with all of it, though I can see the logic in much of what you say.
With gladiator fighting someone always died. It was a tragic loss of a skilled or potentially skilled warrior. Who if he was fit enough to fight, he was fit to do other things well. But gladiator fighting is only a comparison to it mentally. Video games don't present the same physical loss as gladiator fighting.
That's where the entertainment value comes. Watching two gladiators fight it out with their own skills and weapons to me is entertaining as long as they don't actually die and both are willing. That's what some video games are like.
And with the principle of competition alone that is also what boxing is like because both fighters have trained and are strategically and physically trying to beat each other using hand eye coordination. While they never kill each other in boxing it's still a competition of fighting using rules. It's a game. Not all action games the object is to kill your opponent. Street fighter or Super Smash Bros for example you fight without blood, but the fight is still a fight, and can be turned competitive.
I think controlled violence can be healthy and that many males maybe even some females crave it. Not saying we all do, but I believe it is a natural craving in some people that can be taken care of with video games. I never crave to hurt innocent people, but I do crave the challenge to fight a good fight with an eager fighter who *wants to fight. I can get that taken care of without the injuries by playing video games.
Craving is typically self-defeating, as it pulls us away from our serenity in order to eat or fight or hump or whatever.
The ability to maintain self-control in the middle of such actions requires a lot of discipline. It might not be as deeply aggressive as killing someone, but it feels to me like something in the same color range. If you have this balance, great... but can you see how there are others who do not and become more agitated by violent games?
playing violence game has the double effect because player has to think how to destroy the opponent to get the winning
try yourself
you can see what actually it will do to your own mind
then there is no need to go for others opinion
(i know this is a research so you needs statistics but what i suggested is much more authentic research )
this is difference for a person who has Right View and who will be able to be mindful at the moment s/he is playing/viewing violence
both the Right View and the Mindfulness should be presented if there is no harm to be done to the mind
since almost all (there can be exception) who play violence video games/ watching violence movies are not having both Right View and Mindfulness at the time they are playing/watching then violence do harm their mind
there is no doubt about it
The craving for a good fight would be the same as a craving for a good cheeseburger or good sex. You don't need it, and can live without it, but it be fun to get. So it's not a crippling craving, but just a little extra entertainment that makes life worth while for some people.
I know a lot of gamers, and I truly don't think they become more agitated due to violent games. I think when they get irritated, suffer or get depressed it is due to several reasons, but not because of violent video games. The worst thing games can do to you is make you addicted. But anything can make you addicted. So I don't think the violence of games is that significant when the proper age groups play them.
If the violent games had an affect on their mind they'd be going to jail over violence. The people I know who went to jail from my generation went due to stealing and drugs, and those did not play hardly any games at all. And in fact they were more of the out on the street always type.
To me blood shed in movies and games is completely different than people suffering in real life. I have seen people bloodied up from fights. I have had to tend to my friends wounds after them coming to my place following a severe street fight. I've tend to my own wounds after fighting in martial art bouts. The pain of real violence is never numb to me. I know it well. So I respect it, and try to never cross that line.
The games though, they're just that, just games. They're designed for that reason, for no pain, only to challenge the player.
surely you can not generalize this
they may or may not be designed for that reason
but you never can be so sure of the effect of them on others minds
Craving has the habit of creating habit, as is often purported as the source of much of the world's unhappiness. I'll not debate that point in this thread, keeping it on topic.
I accept that your ideas seem well thought out. What you truly think and what I truly think are different, and I sit by my previous points about agitation. I am boggled that you have not experienced people who become upset over video games. I must have played in especially caustic environments, or you have some pretty argumentative blinders on. Either way, I hope all of this will help the OPs paper
And I meant no offense by aiming the questions at American Buddhists. That is just the limitation placed on the scope of the research hehe. The fact that you replied and your comments on the link between the UK and the US in regard to such matters will actually be surprisingly useful though hehe.
Thank you again to all of you.