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lifting weights?
I used to lift weights for a while there then I stopped and recently have been trying to get back into it. That being said, I now wonder whether lifting weights would be desire, as in a desire to look better and have a better body. Seemingly so I can do better friend-wise and girl-wise. What do you guys think?
*edit*Well I know that if I were to stop because of buddhism my family would see it as laziness brought on my obsession over a religion.
*edit*Well I know that if I were to stop because of buddhism my family would see it as laziness brought on my obsession over a religion.
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I say go do the weights but just be mindful of your thoughts and feelings while you do it. You can learn a lot.
Yea, good points. I don't know it's just i've always been a skinny guy and i've always felt inadequate around people because of it. That being said it's kind of a confidence thing for me.
It's always good to be a bit stronger anyway, helps in more ways than one.
I figured, wanting to have a beautiful body is unworthy. Wanting to care for the body adequately is wise. I try to do a lot of spinal column stretching and flexing. I wish I did more yoga.
The idea that having a muscular frame will increase your confidence is a rather silly delusion. In what way would the weight of your muscle mass make you smarter, more learned, more experienced, more valuable, more worthy?
Your sense of inadequacy is an honest admission of your personal pathology. Congratulations, you have something in common with 79.7% of the human population.
If your motivation in lifting weights is to make yourself more worthy of something then it's a waste of energy.
Perhaps. I think I will just have to continue on in my path and experiment(i'm new to buddhism and am just starting to lift again) to see if it's an attachment and craving or not. I think i'll be able to tell.
So why not...
I don´t care what people think. I´m not harming anybody with it, except for some small bruises with boxing ofcourse lol....
I too except my desire to have a healthy and well shaped body. It´s a lot better then getting drunk or doing nothing..
Are you really that stuck on stupid?
dear stupidly and arrogantly self named zen master:
The phrase "it makes me feel good" is so entirely stupid I just plain am unwilling to go any further.
Well good for you.
Yeah, and I accept my desire to butt rape little kids as being much better than butt raping the unborn. I don't care what anyone thinks. I just accept my desire and declare myself the zen master.
Are you twelve? Seriously, how does one get this stuck on stupid?
Of course
Now I am a buddhist I can use the excuse that its about putting down our heavy load.he he.Actually I am not sure monks work out.Lots of walking meditation,but I haven't seen any weights.I guess the Shaolin monks work out and maybe in Zen they do some martial arts.Lucky for me I became interested in Theravada.
Why do you care what your family thinks is your reason for doing anything you do?
Do you have an "obsession over religion" (aka a strong attachment)?
I really don't see the purpose in rudeness but ok. and I see you said the same thing to zenmaster. I would think that calling people names and being rude builds bad karma and is unskillful and thus shouldn't be done. Who knows though, maybe i'm wrong.
I won't ban someone because you think they're stupid, but I will ban someone who is needlessly rude. You would do well to remember that better.
For social reasons you would probably be better off joining a running club or yoga. Lifting weights, more for you, and perhaps your self image, but you can still meet friends.
Whatever you choose, exercise does have benefits even if it's only to keep your heart healthy.
Actually, I believe that running is a violation of the vinaya. Plus I have heard that monks robes can come off easily, so running probably isn't a good idea anyway.
As far as lifting weights go, I am pretty sure the monks where I live don't go to the gym, but they do physically demanding work, such as building kuti's.
What you need are a pair of 21st century running shorts, sort of like monks incognito.
Guy, what is the vinaya?? I am quite slack with my technical terms and understanding ...
Vinaya is the code of morale Discipline
Personally, I lift weights occasionally for various reasons. One, I like to feel good about myself. Two, it relieves some stress and is healthy if not overdone. Three, in the event of a necessary physical encounter, I would like to hold my own. For instance, if I am dating a girl and another guy is harassing her, I would like to have the physical ability to protect her. (in this sense, I think this is why many girls are attracted to muscles---as they may have some sort of deep-seated desire in their genes to be protected)
This is all just my opinion though
The shaolin monks probably do this. Notice they do not really wear robes. Most of them basically have pants on.
Their outfit is more geared so they can physically train. They're Buddhists yet they focus on plenty of physical training. I think that is a good balanced approach. I believe the mind reaches a higher potential when the body is also stimulated through exercise.
Hm. It's not that simple. The negative consequences of indulging in that desire are far-reaching. They affect many mental processes, which in turn have their own effects, and this can go on affecting your future more and more, out of your control. This is why the Buddha taught to not indulge in the desire in the first place. To accept that the desire arises in the mind, but to NOT indulge in it.
To all of you who said that you lift to feel better about yourselves, watch out! You're going the wrong way! Sorry if I sound arrogant, but I take this very seriously and I think everyone should. Remember, the Buddha said ignorance is the root of all suffering. So we shouldn't trust our judgements too much.
From a buddha book I have:
There is much more in this book that would be relevant in this thread but I'll leave it at that, only adding that you should continue yourselves to investigate whether or not you are making the right decision.
Also I want to say that we should all strive for humility! It is so valuable. The longer I stay on this path, the more I see its great value.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th733HfJwdo
Enter by the narrow gate! Be strong! Do the right thing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzgeh6c4ihE
I think this is the most serious thing ever. If someone doesn't take it seriously, I think that is a mistake. Maybe you will ignore me, but I feel like I need to point this out.
This makes it seem, as you might have your intentions all mixed up.
If any of your concern is about how 'you' will be reborn and you see it as some reward, you have gone way off the Middle Way imho.
I'm not here to offend you in any way. Just reaching you maybe a bit harsh at first, but sincere helping hand.
I might have got you wrong, but it seems as if you're doing stuff, just to get something. If you look at it closely, it's your ego.
"I'll be following that noble Buddhist path, to get me a nice rebirth"
And I don't even want to start another rebirth debate. All I want to say is that it has nothing to do with this self, that our illusions tell us to be, so don't even worry about that at all.
I hope this at least gives you something to meditate on. :P
All the best.
For someone in that situation, I think the best thing is to NOT decide whether or not to renounce lifting, but to just stick to the path, and the time will come when you are ready to renounce it. For me this was the case with lifting, marijuana, and the aspiration to have sex and/or a "relationship." In all of those cases, at one point I did not think I could renounce it and did not renounce it. But after some time following the path, I found I could renounce it and did renounce it. And now I am closer to further progress.
Okay, now you're gonna have to share some stories
Fine, but you don't even have to be a buddhist. Buddhism's generally known as being very open-minded, which idk if you follow that aspect of it but what separates buddhism from other religions is enlightenment. If you don't care about or believe in enlightenment, or aren't ready for it, than sure buddhism is a great religion but it's not a sin to follow another. You can live a moral life while following any religion. And most religions don't care if you work out.
In short renouncing is the same as indulging, they are both empty. They can be done with any manner of causing intention. Basic principle of course is benefit all beings, and if you can't, at least don't cause harm. As far as I can see weight lifting does not break that vow.
One thing I will say though is that if you are working on health, why not try to embrace your whole path in one and go for holistic exercise too? Kill 2 birds with one stone as they say. Maybe Yoga/TaiJi?
Ultimately, respecting the body helps one to develop concentration of the mind to observe during meditation much more easily, so that can never be a bad thing.
If you're scared of attachment occuring, well, that just means it's something you need to meditate on. You need to contemplate what you are .... when you don't find you, no matter how hard "you" try, the concept of attachment will become laughable.
Middle path - true in all senses of the word. All best wishes.
Matt : )
You may find, at some point, that your motivation to work out is symptomatic of an underlying network of conditioning. For instance, you may lift weight to be attractive to the opposite sex, or to be seen in certain terms (confident, strong, athletic, etc.). This may or may not cause suffering somewhere down the road. You may find yourself so engrossed in the pursuit of building a better external body as a venue for self-affirmation that you neglect more internal work elaborated on by the Buddha -- letting go of attachment to a specific self-concept, for instance. You may realize that you're operating under insecurities you've internalized from your society, your parents, your peers, etc. and you've spent a lot of time and energy invested in goals that aren't really yours and only an attempt to be accepted on other people's terms.
It's important to note, however, that it is this underlying network of associations, the lack of lovingkindness for oneself, the attachment to a certain self-concept, the attachment to certain end-goals, that is the cause of the suffering. Not the weightlifting itself. There are many valid reasons to do resistance training: improved bone density, lower visceral fat and total body fat (which has been shown to reduce the risk of diabetes and even Alzheimer's Disease), improved hormone and metabolic regulation, improved mood, etc. At this point, I should probably mention I've lifted weights for almost two decades and attribute my lack of osteoarthritis (which runs on both sides of my family) to it.
I recommend metta bhavana meditation (especially directed towards yourself) as a means of learning self-compassion and sorting out any underlying insecurities in addition to your regular practice. If at some point, you notice any of the aforementioned "perils of ego-attachment" (it might manifest itself as feeling particularly hurt when someone insults your appearance or finding yourself acting particularly vain and behaving rudely or condescendingly to someone who is not physically fit, for example) simply notice it, use it as an opportunity to reevaluate what your motivation is and perhaps learn to develop more kindness towards yourself and others. You are likely to find that lifting weights, like any other activity, comes with its own benefits and its own challenges and venues of your psyche with which to practice the dharma.
All the best.
In other words, beware of the Buddha!
Pardon the sarcasm hehe. The reason I strongly recommend (I would not call it an investment) that weight-lifters renounce weight-lifting is because while it is possible to lift weights without any bad karma, I am assuming (and I think it is a good assumption) that this is not the case for 99.99% of people who lift weights. Due to human nature and the culture of modern societies, I think by FAR the leading cause of weight-lifting is rooted in lust. Lust leads to the desire to attract a mate, leads to the desire to improve ego, leads to action, in this case lifting weights. Because of this, I think weight-lifters should renounce lifting weights to help them become free of this attachment. When they can do it without that attachment (should be a while, the desire was deep-rooted) then I think it would be a good idea to continue cautiously. Continuing cautiously would be, lifting only for health and the utility of strength, and avoiding lifting so much that the body develops attention-attracting muscles. I would consider an exception anyone who has a job or duty that requires lots of strength.
Did the buddha lift weights? He only ate properly so that he could practice jhanas. the buddha would not lift weights, except maybe a little bit just for good health, and i think he would advise against trying to make the body more beautiful.