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Sure, craving causes reproduction or rebirth. But in the Four Noble Truths, my impression is Buddha was concerned with mental suffering rather than human population growth.
On another thread, Vangelis cites the Pali Jatakas and the Suttanta Pitaka as sources that discuss the Buddhas past lives, and related themes. I'm not familiar with these texts; are they disputed?
So my reply to the original post is: "How can you say you are a Buddhist if your mind has not realised the Four Noble Truths (which includes Nirvana) and Emptiness?"
All the best
DD
Well the teachings I have come across, which echo my reasoning are from highly respected practitioners, Masters of the Tibetan Tradition who I think have realised the Four Noble Truths and Emptiness, and dare I suggest to a level that you have not yet attained. So if in your eyes I am not a Buddhist because I have not realised emptiness or the four noble truths to the extent that Master practitioners have then Yes I agree with you, with your definition I am not a Buddhist. So with your criteria do you consider yourself a Buddhist ?
Zidangus, may I ask what sect of TB you've studied in?
A question came up on another thread I'd like to ask you. I've heard the Dalai Lama say that there is no "soul" or "self" that goes through rebirth. Yet, there is the tulku tradition, that would seem to show that something that carries the memories of past lives does carry over. Can you explain? (We seem to have too many threads going on a similar topic.)There doesn't seem to be respect on this site for the idea of reincarnation, which seems strange to me (the lack of respect for the beliefs of a major branch of Buddhism, I mean.)
For example, I sponsor two children in Africa. I chose the children from photographs. Their good fortune is due to my karma or actions rather than their karma performed in a past life.
Are you so sure of that? You chose them from photographs. It is their good kamma that they were born good looking enough for you to choose them. Do not presume to guess the machinations of kamma because only a fully awakened Buddha has complete understanding of kamma and how it affects are particular being.
You chose them from photographs. It is their good kamma that they were born good looking enough for you to choose them. Do not presume to guess the machinations of kamma because only a fully awakened Buddha has complete understanding of kamma and how it affects are particular being.
The only presumption is your post.
You presume I chose them cause they were good looking.
You presume to understand a Buddha.
Your post is just superstition, that is, speculative unverified views.
History has been well documented. The causes of social ills have been well documented. For example, the history of African-Americans.
I can only suggest you educate yourself.
Why? Because your views align evil with good.
For example, people who once developed the best weapons enslaved African people in America. These African-Americans have suffered social persecution and often live poorly economically.
Yet you appear to be asserting those who developed better weapons and enslaved people to earn their wealth are recipients of good karma.
Your views make no sense at all because the Buddha taught weapons are evil and trading in human beings (slavery) is evil.
The children I sponsor live in regions that have been inflicted by war for many years. Their poverty is unrelated to any past life karma. Their poverty is directly attributable to corrupt evil governments. Their good fortune is directly attributable to the Christian groups that help them and those who sponsor them.
I am too the buddha. So are you. We all are. There is no one thing that is not any other thing, for we're all the same thing. The buddha is just another expression of me. You're all just expressions of me. Or i'm an expression of you. Or we're all expressions of the ultimate. It doesn't matter how you look at it.
it doesn't predate existence or live or intertwine with existence it is existence
i was wondering what the ultimate is in YOUR terms
mindgate - i guess you could say i do believe it, although i accept that it is unproven. it fits very nicely with buddhist teachings and i just like it
that depends exactly what you mean by existence. if you mean experience of existence then, no. if you mean will there be a time when nothing exists? then yes.
there will always be energy, it can not be destroyed, whether it will take the form of things which have the capability of consciousness and experience, i can't pretend to know
Explain what you mean by "there will be a time when nothing exists" and "there will always be energy." And what is time, anyways, since you implied time will continue to exist even when nothing exists.
I feel that you're over-complicating what i'm saying. I feel i'm being very straight-forward, and you're confusing me on what I myself was saying. I'm not trying to trick you. I'm not trying to word things in such a way that I can cause you to say something stupid. I'm just trying to converse.
You said energy is existence. Is energy, or existence, or whatever you call "it" permanent? Does it ever not exist or does it always exist?
I thought the definition of "permanent" was "always existing," though I could be wrong. If permanence is a quality of energy, then that means non-permanence is not a quality of energy, and therefore it is conceptual.
because you can't experience permanence. All you can experience is this present moment. To assert permanence is to assert a concept. It is conceptual. You can deny this if you wish.
oh my allah.. there is no "this" reality. there can be only one reality reality is that which exists. anything that exists is reality. any "other" reality would still be reality.
Good question. It is beneficial to see life not as a concept, but rather as everything. Because there is life, there is everything. Because there is everything, there is life. Our desire to know and to be happy sustains life. We continually desire to learn about the world(really ourself), but guess what? THERE IS NO END TO KNOWLEDGE! It is impossible to ever truly know everything about the world, or yourself. And in the process of trying to learn, every desire and every action of the ego creates realities, and from those realities spring new realities, all in the spirit of learning and desiring. Yet we will never learn everything, nor have everything we want, so existence goes on.
So... without life... would nothing exist? I'm not understanding your argument here.
And on a more personal note, TJ, I'm just curious, do you still consider yourself enlightened? Feel free to PM me if you aren't comfortable speaking openly.
energy is not a concept. it is the only thing that exists. everything else is just energy in a certain form. which only exists as an entity in the minds of sentient beings.
what you've said to try to prove energy as a concept makes no sense. you said that it has concepts used to describe it, but what does this have to do with whether it is a concept itself?
your not understanding his argument because it is contradictory. first he says things are somehow concepts when they have permanence, then he says life is permanent (something dis proven by science) and is also not a concept
TheJourney how great is it to defend a philosophy that can't be dis proven by any means because it holds that there are multiple truths? does it feel awesome?
So... without life... would nothing exist? I'm not understanding your argument here.
And on a more personal note, TJ, I'm just curious, do you still consider yourself enlightened? Feel free to PM me if you aren't comfortable speaking openly.
It is inconcievable that life could possibly not exist.
Perhaps I define life differently than you do. To me, all things that exist are alive, to some degree.
Anyways, I again grow bored discussing this. I am quickly losing interest in discussing these matters at all. It's so...boring. I have already lost basically all interest in debate. I wonder if losing my interest in discussing is next. People just take it so seriously. And they can't just...interact positively. I do this purely for my entertainment, and I try to make it as clear as possible that i'm not trying to make myself out to be better than anyone or make anyone see things my way, but still people make me out to be saying something bad. I guess part of what made it so fun for me before WAS the debate. Now I don't care to convince anyone anymore, and so it is getting boring.
Right. I just don't enjoy debating anymore. I enjoy life plenty. In fact, my way of enjoying life differs greatly from most. I love my alone time. That being said, debating people is not fun for me anymore. Everyone is on their own path and will see what they need to see when they are ready. Who am I to interfere?
That certainly won't happen right away. Coming here is such a habit! I've been doing it daily for some time, and before this forum other forums. It's not going to be easy to just stop, and i'm not sure if I want to anyways. I have read in taoist sources that one who is enlightened doesn't try to enlighten others. Because by trying to enlighten them, you are stimulating their thinking. And in many ways it is our thinking that causes us problems. So, we should instead try to keep people simple.
Comments
Kind regards
Metta to you my friend and to all sentient beings
A question came up on another thread I'd like to ask you. I've heard the Dalai Lama say that there is no "soul" or "self" that goes through rebirth. Yet, there is the tulku tradition, that would seem to show that something that carries the memories of past lives does carry over. Can you explain? (We seem to have too many threads going on a similar topic.)There doesn't seem to be respect on this site for the idea of reincarnation, which seems strange to me (the lack of respect for the beliefs of a major branch of Buddhism, I mean.)
You presume I chose them cause they were good looking.
You presume to understand a Buddha.
Your post is just superstition, that is, speculative unverified views.
History has been well documented. The causes of social ills have been well documented. For example, the history of African-Americans.
I can only suggest you educate yourself.
Why? Because your views align evil with good.
For example, people who once developed the best weapons enslaved African people in America. These African-Americans have suffered social persecution and often live poorly economically.
Yet you appear to be asserting those who developed better weapons and enslaved people to earn their wealth are recipients of good karma.
Your views make no sense at all because the Buddha taught weapons are evil and trading in human beings (slavery) is evil.
The children I sponsor live in regions that have been inflicted by war for many years. Their poverty is unrelated to any past life karma. Their poverty is directly attributable to corrupt evil governments. Their good fortune is directly attributable to the Christian groups that help them and those who sponsor them.
You post some useful things about the Brahma (heavenly) realm but what you post does not conform to a Buddha.
Although I say this, in your spiritual intoxication, it is ordinary for you to disagree.
the ultimate?
it is existence
i was wondering what the ultimate is in YOUR terms
mindgate - i guess you could say i do believe it, although i accept that it is unproven. it fits very nicely with buddhist teachings and i just like it
:om:
there will always be energy, it can not be destroyed, whether it will take the form of things which have the capability of consciousness and experience, i can't pretend to know
i'm saying that that is impossible. do you think it is possible?
dimensions are necessarily infinite.
if you don't quite get the above statement i'll write you a proof
You said energy is existence. Is energy, or existence, or whatever you call "it" permanent? Does it ever not exist or does it always exist?
there is no "this" reality.
there can be only one reality reality is that which exists. anything that exists is reality. any "other" reality would still be reality.
:scratch:
then
:rant:
then
:banghead:
also, the idea that only what you can experience exists is solipsism, perspectivism if you prefer to be lumped in with slightly less insane people.
:bawl:
And on a more personal note, TJ, I'm just curious, do you still consider yourself enlightened? Feel free to PM me if you aren't comfortable speaking openly.
what you've said to try to prove energy as a concept makes no sense. you said that it has concepts used to describe it, but what does this have to do with whether it is a concept itself?
your not understanding his argument because it is contradictory. first he says things are somehow concepts when they have permanence, then he says life is permanent (something dis proven by science) and is also not a concept
TheJourney how great is it to defend a philosophy that can't be dis proven by any means because it holds that there are multiple truths? does it feel awesome?
I'm assuming you're not a big fan of evolution or the big bang then, are you? :P
Anyways, I again grow bored discussing this. I am quickly losing interest in discussing these matters at all. It's so...boring. I have already lost basically all interest in debate. I wonder if losing my interest in discussing is next. People just take it so seriously. And they can't just...interact positively. I do this purely for my entertainment, and I try to make it as clear as possible that i'm not trying to make myself out to be better than anyone or make anyone see things my way, but still people make me out to be saying something bad. I guess part of what made it so fun for me before WAS the debate. Now I don't care to convince anyone anymore, and so it is getting boring.
2) Please allow me to open up my "What Would Buddha Do" book that I got today:
What would Buddha do when bored?:
"...when you are bored, it is because you are boring... So when you are boring, stop doing it."
No lie. Thats what it says.