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If you analyze why you feel the need to speak to God figure, you'll probably realize there is some underlying insecurity to be found there. Learn what that is, and try to overcome that first. Don't try to take care of the problem fast. Letting go of past beliefs can take time. I was a catholic once myself. It never really FELT right to me that a god figure actually existed...but it still took sometime to be completely honest with myself and face my fears.
I never considered myself an atheist. I found the word agnostic much more appropriate since it's more specific. And ignosticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism) even more so. I learned to not care about the answers and to pay more attention to the questions.I didn't need an answer, and today, even though I believe there is no such thing as a god figure....it still is a question that just doesn't bother me either way. My happiness is no way dependent of my belief in such a figure and I can SEE and FEEL that.
How we find ourselves is to throw out any assumptions and start from scratch. If you start from pre-existing assumptions of how life is, how we came to be, etc. we'll end up basing our worldview around those assumptions to support them.
Instead, we just look at life right here, right now. We watch our minds, see what's arising and passing and the reasons why. We look at everything around us, every experience we have.
I would guess that the reason you are having a hard time letting go of the idea of god is because it was conditioned into you from a young age and you have been told by the people you look up to (your parents, pastors, etc) that this is what you should believe.
Children do not have the ability to form their own opinions, they must simply accept what they are fed by their surroundings. Generally speaking, it is only when we are teenagers that we may begin to question our belief systems and it appears to me that only by our mid-twenties we have sufficiently developed our rational faculties to pursue this in any meaningful way. Even so, some people are unwilling and/or perhaps unable to examine their belief systems critically.
This is one way we can form attachments. Generally speaking, the long it takes to form attachments the longer it may take to break them.
The task of Buddhism is to, first of all, re-condition our minds to perceive that attachment equals suffering. When we make a habit of perceiving this we believe that this is true and our beliefs which were contradictory to this gradually drop away. There may be a feeling of inner-conflict though for a while, this is natural.
But we do not stop here, our goal is not to simply replace one belief system with another. We want to re-condition our minds in order to transcend conditions altogether. The path to transcending conditions is the Noble Eightfold Path.
I later changed the last two paragraphs and added on a third one, but I was too late to change the contents of the last post, so here is what I intended to say:
The task of Buddhism is to, first of all, re-condition our minds to perceive that attachment equals suffering. When we make a habit of perceiving this we believe that this is true and our beliefs which were contradictory to this gradually drop away. There may be a feeling of inner-conflict for a while, this is natural. But with sufficient faith in the Buddha's Teachings and faith that the Buddha was Fully Enlightened and belief that it is possible for you, through your own efforts, to overcome attachment and suffering, eventually the inner-conflict will subside.
But we do not stop here, our goal is not to simply replace one belief system with another. We want to re-condition our minds in order to transcend conditions altogether. The path to transcending conditions is the Noble Eightfold Path.
Also it is worth mentioning here that some people will claim that faith is unnecessary, I would disagree, if we had no degree of faith what-so-ever in the Buddha we would not believe it to be worthwhile to lend ear to his Teachings, nor would we believe that his teachings are worth putting into practice. While it is true that you should not accept what the Buddha says straight away, over time, with reflection, seeing if your practice leads to an increase in wholesome mind states for yourself and others as well as a decrease in unwholesome mind states in yourself and others, then it is only natural that some degree of faith will arise that the Buddha was Fully Enlightened. Some have more faith than others, but it is definitely useful on the Buddhist path; it is one of the "five spiritual faculties" to be developed (the others are energy, mindfulness, stillness of mind and wisdom).
If Buddhism is a better fit for you than Christianity, see if you can convert that faith in god into faith in the possibility to be free from suffering.
I have been considering buddhism for a while now, but I havent been able to get the time to learn about it properly etc, and it had kinda been put to the back of my mind for a while, regrettably. But recently I was thinking about my religion:
I was baptised a catholic, and it is the only faith I have known, and a couple of years ago or so, I decided that this is non-sensical, ../
Hi Meh_, I'm in exactly the same boat. RC from birth, very strong commitment via Charismatic movement in my late teens and twenties, followed by gradual increase in doubts until complete confusion now
First, I'd advise you to completely ignore the glib "Buddhism isn't for you" comments you're getting from some. It's for you if it's for you and only you'll be able to decide that. One of the most valuable things I've found about moving away from my childhood faith is the freedom to stop listening to arbitrary authority. Don't let people -- even well-meaning Buddhist (or Buddhist-sounding, after all, who can tell) -- push you about. Think for yourself. Yes, take advice and ask questions. But just because people on here give short, koan-like answers doesn't in and of itself mean they're not just talking nonsense.
Some things I've found helped me.
1. I realized that the tendency to believe in gods is natural -- that's why there's so much of it about! So if I find myself with some deep desire that it was true, or even a suspicion that it *is*, big deal. That's to be expected.
2. I learned to feel OK about doubt and uncertainty. I learned to use the phrase "but how could I possibly know". Is there a God? Was Jesus his Son? Is the Pope Infallible? HOW COULD I POSSIBLY KNOW?
3. I stumbled upon the following argument one evening on going to sleep and I realized I didn't believe that praying for my family's safety had any impact on their safety. Suppose, for argument's sake, that the God of Christianity is true. It's fairly orthodox to believe that an all loving God will not punish someone for something over which they have no control. So, is belief something over which we have control? Well, let's try. Open your empty palm in front of you. Notice the emptiness. Close it into a fist. Now - believe you are holding a diamond. Don't just consider what it would be like if you were holding one -- really *believe* it to be true. You can't, can you. Belief is ineluctable. One *finds oneself* with a belief. One does not *choose* belief. So don't worry about your state of belief -- just keep exploring. If there is a good god, you'll be fine. If there's not, you'll be fine. (If there's a *bad* god on the other hand -- we'll, then we're all screwed )
There's more, but we're probably on much the same journey. Keep exploring. Maybe you'll end up back where you were. Maybe you'll be in a brand new place. Maybe you'll find a bit of both. Meantime, enjoy the ride. Work out your salvation in fear and trembling
I don't know if I said this in this thread, but you might find something with "Buddha-nature" in the Mahayana to your liking. Maybe Pure Land. It's good for people who are used to praying and for those who need to feel a "foundation" to existence and their beliefs.
@cranreuch, Well said about belief. I've said the same. Beliefs depend on your own experiences, what life has shown you. This is why everyone has different beliefs. You can't force belief, so anyone telling you that you have to believe in this or that... foolishness!
Comments
I never considered myself an atheist. I found the word agnostic much more appropriate since it's more specific. And ignosticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism) even more so. I learned to not care about the answers and to pay more attention to the questions.I didn't need an answer, and today, even though I believe there is no such thing as a god figure....it still is a question that just doesn't bother me either way. My happiness is no way dependent of my belief in such a figure and I can SEE and FEEL that.
Instead, we just look at life right here, right now.
We watch our minds, see what's arising and passing and the reasons why.
We look at everything around us, every experience we have.
Life's not difficult, we just make it difficult.
Absolutely. And I should know, I've mastered that in the last two years
In metta,
Raven
Posting this here has definately given me some great responses to work from
I would guess that the reason you are having a hard time letting go of the idea of god is because it was conditioned into you from a young age and you have been told by the people you look up to (your parents, pastors, etc) that this is what you should believe.
Children do not have the ability to form their own opinions, they must simply accept what they are fed by their surroundings. Generally speaking, it is only when we are teenagers that we may begin to question our belief systems and it appears to me that only by our mid-twenties we have sufficiently developed our rational faculties to pursue this in any meaningful way. Even so, some people are unwilling and/or perhaps unable to examine their belief systems critically.
This is one way we can form attachments. Generally speaking, the long it takes to form attachments the longer it may take to break them.
The task of Buddhism is to, first of all, re-condition our minds to perceive that attachment equals suffering. When we make a habit of perceiving this we believe that this is true and our beliefs which were contradictory to this gradually drop away. There may be a feeling of inner-conflict though for a while, this is natural.
But we do not stop here, our goal is not to simply replace one belief system with another. We want to re-condition our minds in order to transcend conditions altogether. The path to transcending conditions is the Noble Eightfold Path.
Metta,
Guy
I later changed the last two paragraphs and added on a third one, but I was too late to change the contents of the last post, so here is what I intended to say:
The task of Buddhism is to, first of all, re-condition our minds to perceive that attachment equals suffering. When we make a habit of perceiving this we believe that this is true and our beliefs which were contradictory to this gradually drop away. There may be a feeling of inner-conflict for a while, this is natural. But with sufficient faith in the Buddha's Teachings and faith that the Buddha was Fully Enlightened and belief that it is possible for you, through your own efforts, to overcome attachment and suffering, eventually the inner-conflict will subside.
But we do not stop here, our goal is not to simply replace one belief system with another. We want to re-condition our minds in order to transcend conditions altogether. The path to transcending conditions is the Noble Eightfold Path.
Also it is worth mentioning here that some people will claim that faith is unnecessary, I would disagree, if we had no degree of faith what-so-ever in the Buddha we would not believe it to be worthwhile to lend ear to his Teachings, nor would we believe that his teachings are worth putting into practice. While it is true that you should not accept what the Buddha says straight away, over time, with reflection, seeing if your practice leads to an increase in wholesome mind states for yourself and others as well as a decrease in unwholesome mind states in yourself and others, then it is only natural that some degree of faith will arise that the Buddha was Fully Enlightened. Some have more faith than others, but it is definitely useful on the Buddhist path; it is one of the "five spiritual faculties" to be developed (the others are energy, mindfulness, stillness of mind and wisdom).
If Buddhism is a better fit for you than Christianity, see if you can convert that faith in god into faith in the possibility to be free from suffering.
Metta,
Guy
First, I'd advise you to completely ignore the glib "Buddhism isn't for you" comments you're getting from some. It's for you if it's for you and only you'll be able to decide that. One of the most valuable things I've found about moving away from my childhood faith is the freedom to stop listening to arbitrary authority. Don't let people -- even well-meaning Buddhist (or Buddhist-sounding, after all, who can tell) -- push you about. Think for yourself. Yes, take advice and ask questions. But just because people on here give short, koan-like answers doesn't in and of itself mean they're not just talking nonsense.
Some things I've found helped me.
1. I realized that the tendency to believe in gods is natural -- that's why there's so much of it about! So if I find myself with some deep desire that it was true, or even a suspicion that it *is*, big deal. That's to be expected.
2. I learned to feel OK about doubt and uncertainty. I learned to use the phrase "but how could I possibly know". Is there a God? Was Jesus his Son? Is the Pope Infallible? HOW COULD I POSSIBLY KNOW?
3. I stumbled upon the following argument one evening on going to sleep and I realized I didn't believe that praying for my family's safety had any impact on their safety. Suppose, for argument's sake, that the God of Christianity is true. It's fairly orthodox to believe that an all loving God will not punish someone for something over which they have no control. So, is belief something over which we have control? Well, let's try. Open your empty palm in front of you. Notice the emptiness. Close it into a fist. Now - believe you are holding a diamond. Don't just consider what it would be like if you were holding one -- really *believe* it to be true. You can't, can you. Belief is ineluctable. One *finds oneself* with a belief. One does not *choose* belief. So don't worry about your state of belief -- just keep exploring. If there is a good god, you'll be fine. If there's not, you'll be fine. (If there's a *bad* god on the other hand -- we'll, then we're all screwed
There's more, but we're probably on much the same journey. Keep exploring. Maybe you'll end up back where you were. Maybe you'll be in a brand new place. Maybe you'll find a bit of both. Meantime, enjoy the ride. Work out your salvation in fear and trembling
All views of emptiness are good practices. Emptiness of skandas, mind only, rangtong - emptiness of self, and shentong - emptiness of other.
To a begginner buddhist the middle way is to balance too tight with too loose.