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What is considered the most self-destructive in Buddhism?

santhisouksanthisouk Veteran
edited June 2011 in Buddhism Basics
Conceit? Anger? Hatred? Greed? Addiction? Laziness? Ignorance? Something else?

Comments

  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    hm none because there is no self to be destroyed.
    all of these things come and go just like we have night and day.
    just accept them for what they are.
  • :scratch:
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    there is no better, worse, or neutral.
    you're asserting in your question that there is a "self" to be destroyed.

    i am asserting that there is no self being destroyed. how can anger destroy anything by itself? it's your belief in self and your belief in anger that gives the illusion of "self destruction".

    all things come and go.
  • @taiyaki Ok then. What is considered the most destructive to humans then?
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    edited June 2011
    "I" or "mine" making results in Conceit, Anger, Hatred, Greed, Addiction, Laziness, Ignorance,and many other things.
    All the best,
    Todd
  • "I" or "mine" making.
    Yes, ego.

  • Ok conceit.
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    it's only destructive if you hold on. since you hold on you create something to be destroyed and something that is destroying. lol in essence these are all mental fabrications and the belief in these things give the harmless mental formations power.

    so stop believing in i, my, me and then you won't have something to be destroyed or something that is destroying.

    i suppose it is belief/assumption that is most destructive.
  • belief/assumption = ignorance
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    They're all bad but if memory serves I think anger is supposed to be the most destructive. Can't remember exactly why off the top of my head though.
  • If its anger.. I wonder if "views" is up there... :scratch:
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    Anger is certainly destructive, but who makes anger?
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    Well, ignorance is certainly the root of all the rest. So you could say thats the worst. However, just because a being has the ignorance of self they can still enjoy the pleasures and bliss of the god realms and meditative absorbtions. Anger only causes misery and destruction.

    In the end its hard to rank them, but the question was 'most destructive', so I still think its anger.
  • I guess they all can be equally destructive as well.
  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    Anger is surely intense and worthy of special care. As fed noted recently, its one the buddha said needed to be killed. It shows how needful there is of a direct, potent resolve.

    In response to taiyaki's no self answer... if one is to step in front of a moving bus, perhaps there is no-self to get smacked, but that doesn't mean we stop teaching "look both ways". Context is important in relating to truth and teaching.
  • The most destructive (inwardly and outwardly), more than hate and greed and all that jazz, is ignorance (As @person said above)
  • jlljll Veteran
    The 3 venoms, anger, hatred & delusion. The most lowly behaviour is indulgence in sensual pleasures.
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    The 3 venoms, anger, hatred & delusion. The most lowly behaviour is indulgence in sensual pleasures.
    why is indulgence in sensual pleasure wrong?

    because i totally disagree with you and i would like to hear your opinion.
  • The 3 venoms, anger, hatred & delusion. The most lowly behaviour is indulgence in sensual pleasures.
    The three poisons are traditionally regarded as greed, hatred & delusion. However, the Buddha certainly regarded anger as unskillful. He famously compared getting angry to "...grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."
    why is indulgence in sensual pleasure wrong? because i totally disagree with you and i would like to hear your opinion.
    Personally, I would say that overindulgence in sensual pleasure is harmful - just look at the behaviors and consequences it leads to - and any indulgence in sensual pleasure is risky because of the temptation it presents.

    "If one, longing for sensual pleasure,
    achieves it, yes,
    he's enraptured at heart.
    The mortal gets what he wants.
    But if for that person
    — longing, desiring —
    the pleasures diminish,
    he's shattered,
    as if shot with an arrow.

    Whoever avoids sensual desires
    — as he would, with his foot,
    the head of a snake —
    goes beyond, mindful,
    this attachment in the world.

    A man who is greedy
    for fields, land, gold,
    cattle, horses,
    servants, employees,
    women, relatives,
    many sensual pleasures,
    is overpowered with weakness
    and trampled by trouble,
    for pain invades him
    as water, a cracked boat.

    So one, always mindful,
    should avoid sensual desires.
    Letting them go,
    he'd cross over the flood
    like one who, having bailed out the boat,
    has reached the far shore."

    --Kama Sutta
  • Ignorance is what causes all the rest. So lack of insight is the most destructive.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    "Friends, it is caused by behaviour in conflict with the Dhamma,
    by reason of immoral behaviour, that some beings here, right at
    the breakup of the body, after death, reappear lost in states of
    pain, in an unhappy destination, in the downfall, even in the hells...
    It is caused by behaviour in harmony with the Dhamma, by reason
    of moral behaviour, that some beings here, on the breakup of the
    body, right after death, reappear in a happy destination, even in
    the divine worlds!!! And which, friends, are the 3 kinds of bodily
    moral behaviour in harmony with the Dhamma?
    Here someone, stops all killing of living beings, abstains from injuring
    living beings; with rod & weapon laid aside, gentle and kind, such one
    dwells sympathetic towards all living beings.
    Avoiding the taking of what is not given, one refrains from stealing,
    what is not freely given. One does not take by way of theft the wealth
    and property of others, neither in the village nor in the forest.
    Abandoning abuse of sensual pleasures, such one gives up misuse in
    sensual pleasures. One does not have intercourse with partners, who
    are protected by their mother, or father, or mother and father, or
    brother, or sister, or relatives, who is married, betrothed to another,
    who are protected by law, in prison, or who are engaged to other side.
    That is how there are three kinds of bodily moral behaviour in harmony
    with the Dhamma... Such is Right Action!"
  • jlljll Veteran
    What is middle path? Avoid self-mortification & sensual pleasures.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    Conceit? Anger? Hatred? Greed? Addiction? Laziness? Ignorance? Something else?
    Self.
  • I think the answer boils down to one's own experience, that is to say that we can only give an answer of that which we have direct experience, so it is difficult to suggest what would be the most destructive since we would have to have direct experience with one of those destructive mental states. So there really is no real definitive answer.

    If you have some hot coals and embers, and if you were to ask which one these will burn the most, you can't really say which one because to say that one is, is to say that the other ones are not as equally hot. They are all potentially destructive if not extinguished properly.
  • What is middle path? Avoid self-mortification & sensual pleasures.
    It is the path between delusional beliefs (eg nihilism and mysticism) and anti-beliefs (nihilism).

    It leads from ignorance, suffering and negativity to clarity, happiness and peace.

    Travel along the middle path is made by the practice of the noble eightfold path.

    :)
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    part and parcel with any notion of distruction is the wrong view of a self which is destructed. Which is to say that there is something outside you that is differentiated from a self which it may harm.

    Your question no doubt does not refer to that though! :)

    I am not sure why you are asking which is the most. Work on your coursest defilements first. Your big addictions. Your big anger and mean spirit and selfish.

    Work with them in such a way that you see them clearly as what they are. You see that you are not a perfect person who has to 'get rid of' stuff. From your defiled emotion it is just shed snakes skin. You need not get entangled in those emotions. As you relax you perceive clearly and the wrong view is released which purifies.

    Next something else. Next. Next?


  • @taiyaki Ok then. What is considered the most destructive to humans then?
    That's sort of like asking which is more destructive, thermonuclear bomb, or an equivalent amount of TNT? In the end it really doesn't matter. Destructive is destructive.

    But as noted, there is no "self" to "self-destruct", and anything in the human realm is another matter entirely.
  • Creation of a self to destruct.
  • Does ignorance create the self or does the self create ignorance?
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