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Insomnia :(

DandelionDandelion London Veteran
edited October 2011 in General Banter
Anyone else suffer with this? I thought I had this sorted, but it seems not! I have been meditating in bed to help me sleep but it is not working well recently. I know it will pass, but does anyone have any tips they could share to help an insomniac get to sleep? Buddhist related or otherwise..... I've suffered with this for 3 years now. I have bad reactions to medications so they are a no no. I've tried various relaxing teas, reading before bed, lavender oils, and i've tried doing nothing. I accept it as part of my life also, but it would be nice to sleep! Is there a particular meditation technique I could try?

Kind regards from a very Sleepy Dandelion....

Comments

  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    Yes. Ever since I started grad school over a year ago, I've had probably five decent nights' sleep. I've tried everything the health food co-op has, and none of it works. Sadly, I've had to resort to pharmaceutical means a lot of the time, which I hate and despise. But without sleep I'm worthless.

    Interestingly, I've talked with several people recently who have started having sleeping (as well as other unexplained) problems in recent months. My own take on it is that it has to do with the *massive* uncertainty about the economy that's in the background 24/7 right now. If you don't have a really secure job (and who does?), things are very tense right now, and I think that's manifesting itself very subtly in a lot of lives - and people don't even realize it.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    I don't know that meditation would be helpful as meditation is an action of waking.

    You could try a bodyscan in bed. And then just lie down and rest your body. Don't worry about sleeping just lie down. Get up for awhile if you have to then back to resting in bed. It is somewhat restful at least.

    Reading boring material. Dairy such as milk before bed. I guess you have tried a lot of things.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Yes. Ever since I started grad school over a year ago, I've had probably five decent nights' sleep. I've tried everything the health food co-op has, and none of it works. Sadly, I've had to resort to pharmaceutical means a lot of the time, which I hate and despise. But without sleep I'm worthless.

    Interestingly, I've talked with several people recently who have started having sleeping (as well as other unexplained) problems in recent months. My own take on it is that it has to do with the *massive* uncertainty about the economy that's in the background 24/7 right now. If you don't have a really secure job (and who does?), things are very tense right now, and I think that's manifesting itself very subtly in a lot of lives - and people don't even realize it.
    Yea:(
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    Make sure your bedroom is a calm place free from distractions. Get rid of any TV, radio, computer, phone, etc and keep it clutter free. Also the decoration or paint color can help soothe your mind. Its not a magic bullet but every little thing can help.
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    Dandelion, taking calcium-magnesium supplements before going to bed helps some people. Eating turkey (full of tryptophan) can help. Or getting tryptophan supplements, though not all heath food or vitamin stores carry it. Getting exercise during the day to burn off excess energy can help. Oh, here's one: avoid sweets in the afternoon and evening, and eat a relatively low-carb dinner. You might have insulin resistance, meaning, (to make a long story short) eating excess carbs in the evening can cause your nervous system to wake up.
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    I sometimes have insomnia, lately I have had it quite bad. A part of me wants to stay awake though, but if I am in a situation where I want to sleep 100% and I cannot, then I get into the most comfortable position I know personally for me in bed, an I simply breathe very long and slow a few times, then I watch my breath. 90% of the time I fall to sleep in a short while and wake up with the last memory being that tactic.

    If that fails, there are medications but they often have sideaffects like feeling drowzy the entire day prior to taking them. You could always try googling natural sleeping remedies. I am sure there are is some sort of hippy potion out there using some ordinary ingredients that will bring you to sleep :)

    To note, often insomnia is brought on because you have many things on your mind or something 'major' on your mind. It is not always the case, but I would suggest also to try and seek out why you are being kept awake.

    Good luck
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    I think a lot of the time it is our expectation and pressure to have a good nights sleep that causes people with insomnia to not have a good nights sleep. It is the clinging/attachment to this idea that we must have a good night sleep that causes the very problem that insomniacs try to overcome.

    So my advise would be to stop worrying about not getting any sleep/a good nights sleep. Accept it and indeed, if you can, try to look at it as a good thing, not a bad thing.

    This way you can meditate, practice more or do whatever you want to do with your time. I decided to just go to bed and close my eyes and concentrate on my breath when I had insomnia a while back, and gradually with this attitude of acceptance and mindfulness of the situation, I overcame my insomnia. I found that with this attitude, fall asleep or stay awake I will not be phased or worried, I just accept the present situation and I will not let it have an adverse affect on my life.


    I found that if you really do take this attitude and believe it, then you end up overcoming insomnia, well I did anyway when I had it, I have written about this before on the forum if you want to look at those posts.

    Hope it helps :)
    mmo
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    I have insomnia right now, but I kind of want to stay awake. It is not that I want to try and sleep and have problems with it, I am sure if I got into bed now I would, I just do not want to. I guess that is insomnia because I can't sleep because I don't want to and am forcing myself to stay awake, which is not a hard task I must admit.
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    So my advise would be to stop worrying about not getting any sleep/a good nights sleep. Accept it and indeed, if you can, try to look at it as a good thing, not a bad thing.
    Easy to say, not so easy to do. If you've gone for two weeks on an hour or less of sleep, you wouldn't say that. Been there, done that. It ain't pretty. You walk around in a fog all the time.
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    Sleep is more important than food, you can go a whole lot longer without food than sleep, food is second to water and obviously at the top breathing. The world record for time with no sleep was just over 11 days I think, but now the guinness book of records do not recognize it as a record because of the danger involved.
  • DandelionDandelion London Veteran
    Many thanks to you all for taking the time to reply.
    @Jeffrey - I do not know much about bodyscans, I will look into that, thankyou.
    @Mountains - yes I imagine there is a much higher percentage of the population suffering sleepless nights due to the economical problems right now, with everything that entails on a personal level for people. My insomnia was triggered when my father got terminally ill and died. I had therapy for a yr and a half afterwards which helped enormously. The therapist did tell me quite clearly that my sleeping problems were probably never going to be completely eradicated, and she expected that there would be times in my life when it was worse than others, and times when I sleep quite well; and she is exactly correct. I do accept this, but I will also continue to patiently seek ways to improve the situation. I hope you're sleeping gets better, it really can be distressing to suffer with insomnia.
    @person Yes, i'm all for living as clutter free as possible. I'm convinced it helps the mind when awake as asleep!
    @compassionate_warrior and @ThailandTom I will try the calcium magnesium. It certainly can not hurt. I've tried a few 'hippy potions', but I've not even had so much as a placebo affect, and i've tried hippy teas too LOL! I'm a chocoholic so will make sure to eat chocs ONLY FOR BREAKFAST (joke), seriously though that makes sense and I would benefit from a more regular eating pattern, the problem is that sleeping at weird hours means that food intake can happen at weird hours too, but it may well be compounding the real issue of why I can't sleep. I guess i'll just have to try and be more disciplined with a food routine, regardless of what is going on with my sleep.
    @zidangus I do worry about not getting a good nights sleep, although I do not get worked up about it like I have in the past, as this compounds the problem enormously. I agree with what @Mountains and @ThailandTom say about the importance of sleep, and it really isn't a pretty place to be in when your head is in such a mental fog. I suffer with skin pain which i'm fairly certain is due to prolonged lack of sleep. It flares up when I haven't had enough and acts as a barometer for how sleep deprived I actually am. I currently have it on my scalp at the top left hand side, and it can be very painful - the only cure is a good night's sleep. If I can sleep well for 6 hours I will wake up and it has more or less gone. It's interesting how the body will inform you of things it needs, in it's own strange little ways.
    I suffer with nightmares and flashbacks, these have lessened a great deal over the last year or so, so that is positive. I have stopped dreaming that my father is ill, and I now dream that he is better, but in the dreams I have a fear of him getting ill again - I think it is part of the grieving process, but I see it as a good sign that these dreams are less frequent. I am aware when I am in bed, of surges of adrenalin - this happens when I feel stressed. Often, when I am just at that point of falling into a sleep, I feel a MASSIVE surge of adrenalin and *BANG* I AM WIDE AWAKE. I was with my father for the 4 days he was put on what they call the 'pathway', and didn't sleep properly during those four days - I was on a state of high alert. I think I am still partially in that state, even though I do not need to be anymore, hence the adrenalin surges. I will continue learning about Buddhism, and continue with meditating. I'm positive it will help, but it takes time. I came to Buddhism ealier in the year, i'm 30 so I have 30 years of living in unbuddhist ways behind me, and we can not make all the necessary positive changes that Buddhism can teach us overnight, so i'm really ok with it being a process which will take its own course. It has felt thus far, like a really beneficial kind of therapy for dealing with life, and everything that life entails and I'm really glad I'm learning about Buddhism now.
    I've just had 4 hours sleep, but can not sleep for any longer. I'm going to paint for a bit, then meditate and go back to bed when I feel I have at least half a chance of falling asleep!

    Dandelion :)
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    edited October 2011
    oh wow, nobody mentioned melatonin. you can find it in the vitamins and supplements section. it's usually recommended to people who have varying shift times and have trouble adjusting. i recommend it. it sort of just makes you sleepy without making you pass out like sleep medications can.
  • DandelionDandelion London Veteran
    oh wow, nobody mentioned melatonin. you can find it in the vitamins and supplements section. it's usually recommended to people who have varying shift times and have trouble adjusting. i recommend it. it sort of just makes you sleepy without making you pass out like sleep medications can.
    Thanks, I shall investigate that also!

    Dandelion :)

  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited October 2011
    Melatonin works for some people but not for others (like me). When it does work, it usually only lasts for 3-4 hours. Sort of like Ambien in that way - good at putting you to sleep but not at keeping you asleep. Your body can also develop tolerance to melatonin just like other drugs. It's OTC in the US, but prescription in Europe (not sure about Canoodlia).
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    Melatonin works for some people but not for others (like me). When it does work, it usually only lasts for 3-4 hours. Sort of like Ambien in that way - good at putting you to sleep but not at keeping you asleep. Your body can also develop tolerance to melatonin just like other drugs. It's OTC in the US, but prescription in Europe (not sure about Canoodlia).
    interesting, i didn't know it wasn't otc in europe. i honestly don't know how well it would work for people with more serious insomnia. i actually need something that just "puts me to sleep" but doesn't make me stay asleep. my sleep problems are rather mild and are schedule based, but it works well for me.

    worth noting though, a friend of mine took it consistently for a few months and said it made her all wonky. in the past, there have been times when i would take it consistently for weeks and the only side effect i have ever had is a slight "out of it"/nausea feeling the following morning if i didn't allow myself to get enough sleep.

    another herbal remedy worth mentioning is valerian root. any health food store will have different forms of the herb, but i just buy the tea at my local supermarket. even celestial seasonings makes a "Sleepy Time Extra" that has valerian root in it. i actually prefer this brand because valerian tastes/smells sorta... bad. the chamomile in sleepy time masks it a little.

  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    edited October 2011
    So my advise would be to stop worrying about not getting any sleep/a good nights sleep. Accept it and indeed, if you can, try to look at it as a good thing, not a bad thing.
    Easy to say, not so easy to do. If you've gone for two weeks on an hour or less of sleep, you wouldn't say that. Been there, done that. It ain't pretty. You walk around in a fog all the time.
    A while back I had chronic insomnia, I went longer than two weeks with what seemed to be no sleep whatsoever, and I was getting worried thinking when I went to bed that I need to get a good night sleep, and when I did not I felt shattered the next day. This went on for about a month, I tried everything, melatonin, hop seeds, really hard exercise through the daytime, even as a last resort sleeping pills, but they did not help,and I had no intention of getting used to taking those horrible sleeping pills, anyway I still could not get a decent night sleep. Then I finally came to realization that it was my fear of not getting a good nights sleep that was actually causing the problem in the first place, it was a sort of vicious cycle I was in, having realized this I thought what the hell, I don't care if I get a good nights sleep or not, and instead of fighting what was happening, instead of wishing that things were different, that I could get a great nights sleep every night, I just accepted my situation, and lost all fear of not getting to sleep. Of course having this attitude did not result in a cure for my insomnia overnight as it were, but I consistently kept this attitude (and still do) and gradually over the next few weeks, I started to get more and more sleep, until eventually I started to fall asleep very easily and still do now. I am not saying that this attitude will work for everyone, I am just talking about my experience, which was chronic insomnia, and I overcame it, by accepting it and not letting it have a negative affect on me. If you keep telling yourself that something is bad, not good for you, then you can be pretty sure that your monkey mind will play on it. Whereas, if you just accept it and find positives not negatives from it, then that monkey mind has no chance to get any energy.

    So yes easy to say and not easy to do, but I know it worked for me, so I know it can be done.

    I should mention that a book I read helped me to come to this realization it was called

    Transforming Problems Into Happiness

    by Lama Zopa Rinpoche

    http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Transforming_Problems_Into_Happiness.html?hl=pl&id=UKAIBCaFh58C&redir_esc=y

    a very good read if any one is interested

    :)
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Dandelion: Zid is right, sleeplessness can be caused by stress or anxiety, and then it becomes a vicious circle. You become anxious about the insomnia itself. But also, there could be a hormonal imbalance at the bottom of it. Have you seen a doctor for bloodwork? That insulin resistance C.Warrior mentioned is one type of hormonal imbalance, If you're over 40, other hormones start changing, too, and sleep becomes a problem.

    Anyway, you have plenty of suggestions and info here. Let us know if something works for you. Best wishes.
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    edited October 2011
    Melatonin works for some people but not for others (like me). When it does work, it usually only lasts for 3-4 hours. Sort of like Ambien in that way - good at putting you to sleep but not at keeping you asleep. Your body can also develop tolerance to melatonin just like other drugs. It's OTC in the US, but prescription in Europe (not sure about Canoodlia).
    This is most effective for jetlag I think, its not so good for chronic insomnia, when I took it, I felt tired, but it did not send me to sleep. I found this was the case for most otc medicine. Anyway for me it was my mind that needed to be worked on from within, by changing attitudes and how I reacted to situations, no drugs or medicine could have done that for me, as in my case they only temporarily hid the symptoms not solve the underlying problem.

  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    @zidangus just reading your story gave me anxiety, lol. i usually develop insomnia of that sort (although not as extreme as yours) as a result of depression. things have been much better for me over the years, but in high school i had a fairly serious bout of it. i have so many memories of just watching the clock... angry that i could do nothing but.
    thank you for sharing your story, though.
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    edited October 2011
    No problem @zombiegirl, I think my experience of insomnia will be familiar to a lot of people, and as I said it was a tough experience for me, but an experience I am glad I had, as it led me down a path which resulted in me changing the way I viewed problems and difficult situations. As I said the book by Lama Zopa Rinpoche really did help me realize just how I was reacting to my situation the wrong way.

  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    Melatonin supplementation can cause the body to switch off its own melatonin production. Which is why some people get "all wonky" on it. Others tolerate it fine. The first couple of times I used it, I slept like I haven't slept since I was a kid, really deep sleep. After that, it didn't work.
  • DandelionDandelion London Veteran
    Well, I managed to sleep well last night and feel a lot better. I'm not sure what I did differently though!
    @Dakini I had blood tests done ages ago, not for sleep problems, I had a kidney infection. A problem with my thyoid was detected - my thyroid was functioning as it should be but the hormone that has to tell the thyroid what to do was having to 'scream' at my thyroid to get it to work. That's how it was explained to me anyway. Forgive the lack of eloquence here - I am not a medical person with a scientific brain, I'm one of these creative types i'm afraid! I know that the thyroid can affect sleep. However, it was checked again 6 weeks later and the problem had rectified itself so that was that. Maybe it flares up from time to time, I don't know???? Sometimes I do think that the body starts having things go wrong with it because of stress so i'm inclined to consider that the kidney infection/thyroid problem was brought on by stress and lack of sleep, not the other was around. Incidentally, I got pains in my kidney when my dad was diagnosed with kidney cancer but ignored them because I thought it was psychosomatic and would go away on it's own, but in the end I needed medical treatment, once I actually went to the docs to complain about the pains and then had the blood and urine tests done. Hmm. Basically what I'm saying is that stress is causing, and has caused things to go wrong with my body, not just the sleep. Yes, I agree it is a vicious cicle. That said, it is a hell of a lot better than a year ago, and a year ago it was better than the previous year and when I think of that it makes me feel a bit more at ease about the whole thing. It's hard being human sometimes, isn't it.
    @Zidangus No sleep for 2 weeks sounds utterly hellish. I'm very pleased you managed to sort that out. Although I do not conciously feel like i'm getting angry or frustrated, maybe I do need to go further into accepting lack of sleep. Maybe i've become too accepting of it in a sort of nonchalent way, at times. I'm struggling to find the right words that fit with exactly what I mean :eek2: Maybe I need to try and become accepting of it in a non judgemental way, if that makes sense???
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    Zero sleep for two weeks straight should equate to death, or at least hospitialized.
    Glad you got a good nights sleep though, try not to think about why so much, just go about your day as normal. Maybe what was hampering your mind and preventing you from sleeping in the first place has been resolved without you even knowing to much about it on a conscious level. Hope you keep on track :)
  • DandelionDandelion London Veteran
    Zero sleep for two weeks straight should equate to death, or at least hospitialized.
    Glad you got a good nights sleep though, try not to think about why so much, just go about your day as normal. Maybe what was hampering your mind and preventing you from sleeping in the first place has been resolved without you even knowing to much about it on a conscious level. Hope you keep on track :)
    Hi @ThailandTom
    It wasn't me that couldn't sleep for two weeks staight, it was Zidangus who said they felt like they hadn't slept at all for two weeks. If I go for 3 days of not sleeping, I will finally finally drop, thank goodness.

    Many thanks to all the replies - it has been helpful.

    Dandelion :)

  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    Do not worry, I know it was not you who stated they had not slept for 2 weeks, I was just saying it is near impossible to do such a thing without ending up dead or close enough to be in hopsital.
    After 3-5 days you start to halucinate so I have read from an experiment that was carrid out many years ago, I would never get that far myself either, I just pass out. I am still stuck in this cycle of around 30 hours awake and then a big sleep and it is driving me insane, but I just do not want to sleep which is hard to explain.
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    Also - melatonin makes me have extremely vivid and sometimes very bizarre dreams. Enough so that I don't take it anymore...

  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    Mine are already vivid and bizarre, how much more could this melatonin make them anymore so :p
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    Once I found out it's made from the pineal glands of sheep, that also kind of turned me off of it :)
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    Just to clear things up, I never said I did not sleep for two weeks straight, I said it felt like I never slept for two weeks, I am pretty sure that I had microsleeps but did not remember them.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsleep
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    That's still not "sleeping". Catching a few minutes here or there for two weeks is unhealthy.
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    That's still not "sleeping". Catching a few minutes here or there for two weeks is unhealthy.
    And neither is worrying about it.
  • ToshTosh Veteran
    Erm, can I say it? An orgasm at bedtime may help. In the army, the lad's used to call a, erm, self abusive act a 'sleeping tablet', as in "I came off guard duty, and I just couldn't sleep, so I had a 'sleeping tablet' and I was out like a light!"

    If this post is considered too close to the knuckle, mods feel free to delete.

  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    edited October 2011
    @Tosh your real name is not Tom Logan is it, and have you been on the "Releasing Difficult Energy In Some Army Bed" course ?

    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/12819/spiritual-development-courses-top-for-casual-sex-says-the-daily-mash#Item_8

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/spiritual-development-courses-top-for-casual-sex-201110144423/


    Sorry couldn't resist again :p
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    lol, ah tom logand, now a new buddhist legend.
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