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Hatred for this world

edited November 2012 in Faith & Religion
Is it true that one cannot progress on the spiritual path without hatred for this world? The book of John is clear about this. And I am sure there is something similar in the dhammapada.,

Comments

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    The book of John? Are you asking about the Bible again? If so, why?
    DaltheJigsawNiwalen
  • vinlyn said:

    The book of John? Are you asking about the Bible again? If so, why?

    I am asking about dhammapada, which is the bible of Buddhism.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Then you'll have to give me a link. I am not familiar with the book of John in the dhammapada.
  • vinlyn said:

    Then you'll have to give me a link. I am not familiar with the book of John in the dhammapada.

    Sorry, it's an epistle of John (not the gospel of John). 1 John 2:15

    Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Again you waste our time.
    DaltheJigsawMaryAnneNiwalenInc88
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    There is a profound difference between hating a thing and prioritizing one's life towards something else.
    Hating something binds a part of you with hate. It only ties you to that thing.
    Freedom lies in a different effort in another direction.
    GlowNiwalen
  • GlowGlow Veteran
    edited November 2012
    From the Dhammapada:

    "5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

    6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels."

    Source: The Dhammapada, translated by Acharya Buddharakkhita
    Niwalen
  • vinlyn said:

    Again you waste our time.

    This was posted in the comparing religions section...
    Seems like a legit question, and , properly categorized.
    ?
    DaltheJigsawNiwalen
  • "Do not love the world" suggests attachment to me. Non attachment means giving up this clinging to conditioned reality. But hating, as #how said, is devoting negative energy towards something which binds you even more. Non attachment is letting it go.
    Glow
  • GlowGlow Veteran
    edited November 2012
    Just to continue from my last post...

    Buddhism is certainly a path of renunciation and, as such, involves a certain degree of "dropping out" of the rat race most people are engaged in. This means there must be a certain degree of disillusionment or disenchantment with this world, but not hatred. Hatred itself is perpetuating suffering. "Holding onto ill-will is like grasping onto a burning coal, intending to throw it at someone. You're the one who gets burned." (I don't know where in the Buddhist canon this quote appears, but I've always loved it.) Hatred does not serve to help one progress in liberation from suffering.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran

    vinlyn said:

    Again you waste our time.

    This was posted in the comparing religions section...
    Seems like a legit question, and , properly categorized.
    ?
    You're right. I'm wrong. Oh wait, there is no right and wrong in Buddhism.

    mfranzdorf
  • John is just saying to satisfy bodily needs only as much as you need in order to survive. In other words, don't overindulge is all. It doesn't mean literally to hate food. Love your burguer, but don't have 10 burguers so you end up with a stomach ache which would interrupt your meditation.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I agree with @poptart. It just seems to me the passage indicates not to be in love with the world around you. Just because you don't love something doesn't mean you hate it. Westerners are too fond of their black and white way of thinking, lol.
    MaryAnne
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    music said:

    Is it true that one cannot progress on the spiritual path without hatred for this world? The book of John is clear about this. And I am sure there is something similar in the dhammapada.,

    Dispassion ≠ hatred.
    seeker242
  • It's also saying your heart cannot be in two places at the same time. If you're totally focused on material concerns then by definition you are dissing the spiritual. One should strive to be thinking about spiritual things at all times.
  • Aversion is just another form of clinging.

    Relinquishing occurs when insight penetrates.

    The result of wisdom is always letting go, kindness and love.

    One sees the world for what it is. A construction, thus hallow, void, empty. This mirage from this lack of reference point can be seen to be beautiful or ugly and simultaneously both.

    But the voidness is what is freeing and ultimately the release of the heart to love with no boundaries is the sweet spot. Instead an aversion for this world, deep letting go brings a profound love and true embrace of this world.
    octinomoszenff
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited November 2012
    Anger happens when you do not understand what leads away from suffering. So say you treat the 'undesired' arising as just a thought and welcome the thought as in meditation. That would lead to peace and from peace you could work with the situation. Have you ever heard of the serenity prayer?

    But when you are angry you can only see the situation as 'my way or the highway'.
  • vinlyn said:

    vinlyn said:

    Again you waste our time.

    This was posted in the comparing religions section...
    Seems like a legit question, and , properly categorized.
    ?
    You're right. I'm wrong. Oh wait, there is no right and wrong in Buddhism.

    That gave me a laugh!
  • music said:

    Is it true that one cannot progress on the spiritual path without hatred for this world? The book of John is clear about this. And I am sure there is something similar in the dhammapada.,

    What do you think? I think it would be wrong to hate the world. There is a lot of joy and happiness to be found in it. Isn't there? Sometimes I love being alive; I love eating, running, my family, my faithful dog, sleeping, going to the cinema, watching broken alcoholics recover and get their life back; etc.

    Yes, there is suffering - I understand the Truth of Suffering - and it's this that helps me down the spiritual path (though at times my suffering has beaten me down it); so I personally disagree. There is joy in life, but there is also suffering - and it's the suffering that helps our progression - not hatred for this world.

    In an alcoholics anonymous literature it says, "Pain is the touchstone for all spiritual growth", and I agree with it because my experience has shown this to be true.

    MaryAnne
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    It is better to hate the cause of Suffering which is the Deluded minds that perpetuate Samsara, Seeking to destroy delusion as an ordinary person would do to a hated enemy will certainly make you happier.
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    edited November 2012
    music said:

    Is it true that one cannot progress on the spiritual path without hatred for this world? The book of John is clear about this. And I am sure there is something similar in the dhammapada.,

    I think the closest we have to this is the teaching about the lotus. Being born into the world without being stained by the world. Hate is something else entirely.

    I don't think it's wise to hate anything especially the world. That is nhilism and goes counter to compassion.

    Wishing things to be different than they are is one of the things Buddha taught us to overcome.

  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    music said:

    Is it true that one cannot progress on the spiritual path without hatred for this world? The book of John is clear about this. And I am sure there is something similar in the dhammapada.,

    Hate has a special meaning here. It is more akin to ignore and reject. In stages of Tantra and for developed arhats there is no need to be as ascetic as the Buddha was before emanciapation. For most of us we have to abandon the coventional love of suffering and focus on or love the 'spiritual', practice centered life.

    If you befriend the world of maya, it will swallow you. Progress comes from our focus.
    :)
  • It's okay to be unsatisfied, but hate is an affliction and difficult to reverse.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    music said:

    vinlyn said:

    Then you'll have to give me a link. I am not familiar with the book of John in the dhammapada.

    Sorry, it's an epistle of John (not the gospel of John). 1 John 2:15

    Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
    That doesn't say anything about hate. :) It just says "do not love the world". Which is quite different than "hating the world". Loving it is one extreme, hating it is the other extreme. The proper way is in the empty space right between the two extremes, which is neither love for it, nor hatred for it.
  • I don't think love counts as an extreme.
    lobster
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    RebeccaS said:

    I don't think love counts as an extreme.

    I think it depends on what kind of "love" you are referring to. The word "love" can mean many things, some of which are quite different! :)
  • seeker242 said:

    RebeccaS said:

    I don't think love counts as an extreme.

    I think it depends on what kind of "love" you are referring to. The word "love" can mean many things, some of which are quite different! :)

    It's true. I have experienced the really clingy kind of love. It was horrible when it went away.
    I really hope I am not feeling like that on my deathbed.
  • RebeccaSRebeccaS Veteran
    edited November 2012
    seeker242 said:

    RebeccaS said:

    I don't think love counts as an extreme.

    I think it depends on what kind of "love" you are referring to. The word "love" can mean many things, some of which are quite different! :)
    Not really. There's love, and then there are things that masquerade as love.

    That's not to say people don't use the word love incorrectly. To use Robots example, "clingy love" is a total misnomer.

    Love is just love. :shrug:

    I get that people say things like romantic love and sibling love, but the love is still the same, underneath it all. It's so much bigger than relationships.
    lobster
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited November 2012
    RebeccaS said:

    seeker242 said:

    RebeccaS said:

    I don't think love counts as an extreme.

    I think it depends on what kind of "love" you are referring to. The word "love" can mean many things, some of which are quite different! :)
    Not really. There's love, and then there are things that masquerade as love.

    That's not to say people don't use the word love incorrectly. To use Robots example, "clingy love" is a total misnomer.

    Love is just love. :shrug:

    I get that people say things like romantic love and sibling love, but the love is still the same, underneath it all. It's so much bigger than relationships.
    Some people love fudge sundaes. Some people love fast cars and lots of money. Some people love to watch football on Sunday. Some people love gambling. Some people love to gamble while watching Sunday football. Some people love to drink a lot of alcohol, while gambling on and watching Sunday football. :lol: Some people love their parents. Same word, two completely different meanings. Love counts as an extreme when your love is for "this world" which in this context is money, fast cars, gambling, drinking and yes even football!, etc, etc.

    :lol:

    So the context for "love of the world" is the above, which you call a misinterpretation, which obviously is not the same love that Jesus taught to people when he said "love thy neighbor" etc, etc. No apostles of Jesus ever preached that you should not love your neighbor. At least, not that I know of, ha! So when he said "don't love the world" I think it's clear the he isn't talking about not loving thy neighbor. He's talking about all that other stuff that people cling to (AKA the world), which in turn, produces suffering. :)
    Jeffrey
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    It may be true that people simply use the word "love" wrong, but considering how much a daily part of life if is to use the word in so many contexts, I see nothing wrong with further identifying it. I agree that love is much bigger than relationships, but I think that there is a need to assign it differing values for the sake of clear communication. I love my children enough that I would give my life for them. I love lasagna, too, but not nearly in the same context, lol. Anyhow, I agree with what @Seeker242 said, that is how I read the quote from the bible. Love for material things of this world out of attachment to particular ideas surrounding those things, is not the same as LOVE, and it seems clear to me that that is what the bible passage is referring to.
  • music said:

    Is it true that one cannot progress on the spiritual path without hatred for this world?

    All things and all thoughts are Buddha.

    Sitting in meditation is the immediate manifestation of Enlightenment in precisely the unique form of this, here and now; the way it is before we can even give it the names of “this” or “here” or “now”; before the thought can come up that it should be found or realized.

    The world is an endless opportunity for awakening. Hatred is not the way to use that opportunity.
  • music said:

    Is it true that one cannot progress on the spiritual path without hatred for this world? The book of John is clear about this. And I am sure there is something similar in the dhammapada.,

    The book of John is very clear but I am not so clear. I would rather think that one can progress in anything if one is mindful.
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