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Just a rank beginner's thoughts....
Straight_Man
Gentle Man Veteran
Ultimate existence? I agree that even Christianity says "all shall pass away" and that it means that what man or woman perceives as reality shall pass away. What remains? Remnants. Consciousness, POSSIBLY.
Consciousness needs knowledge. So limited consciousness can only perceive limitedly. SIMPLE. But oh so complex at the one and same time.
I think verbally to myself, to a degree. I think using words. I think ABOUT words even. And sometimes laugh to myself at my "spinning my wheels."
I do not know the "vocabulary of Buddhism" yet. Does that mean that I think I might in some future present? If I try to learn, yes. But I mean rather than an animal ID me, if my consciousness focuses on accumulating the knowledge I need about the middle way while working to express it instant by instant more and more.
That is part of where I, my consciousness, is NOW. Help mold me into the middle way, you who are further along the "pathing" of the middle way, please.
Consciousness needs knowledge. So limited consciousness can only perceive limitedly. SIMPLE. But oh so complex at the one and same time.
I think verbally to myself, to a degree. I think using words. I think ABOUT words even. And sometimes laugh to myself at my "spinning my wheels."
I do not know the "vocabulary of Buddhism" yet. Does that mean that I think I might in some future present? If I try to learn, yes. But I mean rather than an animal ID me, if my consciousness focuses on accumulating the knowledge I need about the middle way while working to express it instant by instant more and more.
That is part of where I, my consciousness, is NOW. Help mold me into the middle way, you who are further along the "pathing" of the middle way, please.
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Do not take my word for it.
Do not take anyone's word for it.
Find out for yourself.
Best wishes.
But just because it is negated doesn't assume nothingness or void or any kind of nihilistic ground.
Buddhism negates that which is asserted already. So what is asserted already? Inherent existence is asserted. We through language and other factors project inherent existence onto "reality".
Because we assert inherent existence we can only see in duality or in black and white. We see existence or non-existence, both or neither.
But "reality" has nothing to do with our conceptual assumptions.
For instance lets talk about a tree. When we experientially look at a tree with our eyes we see color. Then we see color meeting another color say like the trunk meeting the sky or ground. Onto these colors we project ideas such as sky is blue, tree is green and brown. Then we attach stories to trees like this is how a tree grows, it needs sun, etc. Tree's are paper, etc.
These are just ideas, though they serve a certain pragmatic function its just a human minds assertion.
So really we see the world in a dualistic way. We see a tree and then we see everything else apart from the tree. This is a conceptual assumption that has become so embedded into our karmic vision that we cannot perceive without the symbol and referent being apart.
Out of this ignorance we construct and solidify the world and ourselves. And because of this we suffer because we cling to assumed things.
Anyways that is just my rant and I know its a lot to digest.
And a side note about consciousness. You presuppose that there is a consciousness and it can be owned and it is prior to experience waiting to experience things.
That is a definition of dualistic vision.
Its like we are knee deep in shit our whole lives and we don't even notice it because we have nothing to contrast it.
The nondualistic vision is of consciousness as the arising itself, as the experience itself.
If you want me to simplify, clarify or just make more sense in general please ask.
Sorry about that.
In the present moment, which there isn't a container or a thing called present moment. Its more like we call whatever is arising in the immediate the present.
So its good to think about the present as a continuous flow of nows. now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, etc.
These arising are the sensations, the smells, the tastes, the colors (shapes, forms), the sounds, and the thoughts (can be auditory, colors, etc).
This "now" is always experienced as the body. The mind is always the conceptual generator, which goes hey a bird, I see a bird.
But what one must understand is that everything is essentially non verbal, non conceptual and doesn't reference anything other than itself.
So in the moment there is a sound. A pure sound as it is. Then we project distance, space, time, loudness, qualities, aversion towards it, attachment towards it, etc. We give the sound more reality than it has thus we suffer. We give ultimate existence. Sound really, truly exists. Or it doesn't. See the dualistic view?
The reality of the sound is that it arises due to everything. Think of each NOW as the BIG BANG continually happening then dissolving. SOUND BAM THEN GONE. Then another sound bam and gone. What conditions are required for that sound to be there? You need a ear, you need to label it as a sound, you need the sound to happen, and if we look further you need EVERYTHING.
The sound in fact is the universe giving its very best and conclusion in each instant without a center, location, source, subject, object, etc. The sound hears the sound.
And thats a nice view but we can experience this view. Listen and hear sounds. Where is it actually? Where exactly is it? And don't come up with an idea because that is a projection. In our lived experience where is the sound? And we look and we look as we don't find it. Yet there is sound, that is apparent. So we cannot deny its apparent existence, yet we cannot find the source of it, the essence of it. The solidity is missing.
Thus we conclude that the sound arises dependent upon causes and conditions. The sound requires everything thus this is the inter connectivity Buddhism speaks about. For there to be sound there has to be everything in play, in motion.
Remember the old saying if there was a falling free and no one heard it did it happen? Well thats what we are talking about.
The sound never occurred unless one heard it. And one must be there is hear a sound. Because if you take another word for it then its just another idea.
So examine you immediate experience without conceptual assumptions. Even thoughts are not what they seem.
I hope this helps.
Also read this for more clarity, mind you I am not the best writer, nor am I very clear on such matters. But this article is spot on.
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2010/04/buddhism-is-not-what-you-think.html
@Straight_Man -- OK ... chew, swallow, digest and, of course, shit.
I think of consciousness as thinking individually-- as a "ness" of that. I think verbally, not in pictures nor diagrams, so can read. I think as I read, then reflect on what is read, in a flow of nows.
But I am a baby Buddhist, undifferentiated as to subpractice yet. While I do not know what practice in more detail I want, I know from reading here that there are as many detailed subvarieties of practices as there are individuals here in the sense of thinkings expressed. The problem is, like a baby I am lost in Buddhist terms many times reading here. If each explains practice some I can begin to "grok" (as Robert Heinlein had his character make said) what aspects of the practices I can adopt and mold into my now flow.
I think of knowledge as grist/data for thought. Thoughts to me arise as my own voice mostly-- almost totally. I am lost in reality thinking now, want to break free, and even rants provide some grist, so thank you @genkaku and @taiyaki .
As a baby I do not even what to ask, so any data can be grist for later analysis/meditation. I gather but have to use the grist I have to process/sort/analyze/meditate on what I add to the grist pile.
Buy this book. Its very accessible and goes into the highest wisdom Buddhism has to offer. It also puts a cultural, social, collective and individual purpose and function to what practice and study is about.
Since you like to think this is a good book. Nagarjuna and emptiness teachings are a pain in the ass to access as a beginning but the Dalai Lama does an excellent job expressing the subtle and complex teachings of emptiness and dependent origination.
My advice for a beginner of anything is to keep an open mind and most importantly keep practice and study in consistency.
Good luck.
Better not to think at all, IMO.
Thinking isn't bad. As thinking is healthy and quite normal.
I think one should think about the correct things and investigate accordingly.
Not thinking isn't the goal because thinking itself is suchness in action.
Its important to understand that there is only the conventional assumption aka symbols and ideas about reality. And there is no reality apart from the assumptions. Thus it isn't ideas that are the problem, it is the clinging and construction of suffering through the proliferation of wrong perceptions.
Calling a cat a cat isn't really a problem. It is the suffering that results of giving inherent existence and thus moving in a way of aversion and attachment.
And of course everyone has their opinion on what is helpful and not helpful.
As a whole I think its all about balance. There is a time to just be and there is a time for serious intellectual study and contemplation.
Liberation is the result of practice, view and realization.
I only consciously do one thing well at a time. If I get lost in thought/meditation, since I have poor vision and no depth perception (monkey "fact") I almost run into things. So I am used to sitting still pretty much when I want to think deeply (that may be a shit concept set to Buddhists) except when I get monkey "discomfort" and then "move" in a series of nows (I accept that folks use different concepts differently) until the monkey discomfort fades.
I will get the book @tiyaki and read more about the base concepts, so I may seem to lurk for a succession of nows.
Regarding monkey mind in meditation it is normal and no reason to be discouraged.
For me the most important thing is to notice. Have fresh eyes and relax. And then read something each day. I'm sure you can find a lot on the web or a bookstore. I like the youtubes of Mooji.
I used to try to schedule meditation (and found that useless), but found I adopt it almost automatically now. I am 59+ years old in "monkey years." First tried meditating when 12.
This is developing the 5 faculties of faith, diligent, mindfulness, stillness and wisdom. For conceptual understanding is essential to explore this 5 faculties in great details.
I grant that it is true that experience is needed and that the experience brings greater progress toward a goal than mere considering the aspects of what the experience should be.
Then once we have experience then we have a wider perspective and we then express from that wider perspective into the view.
But it is always the case that experience when trusted and explored push up against the view and even go beyond the view.
There is a Dzogchen saying:
Trust your experience and refine your view. Both are very important.
Ideas have their function until that which governs ideas become aware of itself.
Prajna wisdom is what cuts through and liberates. And such wisdom is not conceptual but known through correct seeing and letting go.
From the post above, it seems in your contemplation, you have realised two concepts; Impermanence and mind only.
Impermanence is easier to comprehend, as you said, all shall pass away!, Yes, everything comes and goes, decays eventually.
Mind only concept is a follow up to impermanence, the mind, or consciousness can be sub-divided into 3 areas, which we wont go into now. Suffice to say, the mind is the only remnant after the body is gone. The six senses comprise of 5 physical and one mental component, the mind (consciousness).
In this concept, the 5 physical senses are all linked to the mind, which then perceives the objects, feelings, sight, etc. So in essence, all are recognized or imprints on our mind. Hope what Im saying is clear.
Finally, the middle way is about using just the right effort to get on in our daily lives, using moderation. Do not try too hard, like steal, fight or cheat or backstab others to gain our goal, yet do not wait for thing to drop from the sky, again moderation in our actions. Difficult to do as we are in the rat race.