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The Buddha's timeframe for enlightenment
Bunks
Australia Veteran
For those of you who don't believe in or are unsure about rebirth, are you surprised that the Buddha was able to find enlightenment within 6 short years with no teacher or teachings to follow?
I know people who have been sitting for 20+ years and still say they struggle with the ego etc.
Interested to hear people's thoughts.
I know people who have been sitting for 20+ years and still say they struggle with the ego etc.
Interested to hear people's thoughts.
0
Comments
I don't guess that Siddhartha was doing much multi-tasking.
But ask Lobster. He says he'll be enlightened in just weeks from now.
Read the heart sutra, it helps me.
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/lifebuddha/13lbud.htm
To make progress in a short period of time is not surprising. It is often a question of following what is already known or implementing and digesting teachings one is already familiar with.
It is a question of genuine aspiration and implementation. Nobody trains to win a marathon in their 'next life' . . .
More details as I become enlightened . . .
Everyone has Buddha potential. The truth is most don't really want it.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/index.html
A Gradual Training
The Dhamma, the truth taught by the Buddha, is uncovered gradually through sustained practice. The Buddha made clear many times that Awakening does not occur like a bolt out of the blue to the untrained and unprepared mind. Rather, it culminates a long journey of many stages:[1]
Just as the ocean has a gradual shelf, a gradual slope, a gradual inclination, with a sudden drop-off only after a long stretch, in the same way this Doctrine and Discipline (dhamma-vinaya) has a gradual training, a gradual performance, a gradual progression, with a penetration to gnosis only after a long stretch.
— Ud 5.5
Monks, I do not say that the attainment of gnosis is all at once. Rather, the attainment of gnosis is after gradual training, gradual action, gradual practice. And how is there the attainment of gnosis after gradual training, gradual action, gradual practice? There is the case where, when conviction has arisen, one visits [a teacher]. Having visited, one grows close. Having grown close, one lends ear. Having lent ear, one hears the Dhamma. Having heard the Dhamma, one remembers it. Remembering, one penetrates the meaning of the teachings. Penetrating the meaning, one comes to an agreement through pondering the teachings. There being an agreement through pondering the teachings, desire arises. When desire has arisen, one is willing. When one is willing, one contemplates. Having contemplated, one makes an exertion. Having made an exertion, one realizes with the body the ultimate truth and, having penetrated it with discernment, sees it.
although I will add in this for kicks, at the end of the Maha Satipathana sutta -
"Now, if anyone would develop these four frames of reference in this way for seven years, one of two fruits can be expected for him: either gnosis right here & now, or — if there be any remnant of clinging-sustenance — non-return.
"Let alone seven years. If anyone would develop these four frames of reference in this way for six years... five... four... three... two years... one year... seven months... six months... five... four... three... two months... one month... half a month, one of two fruits can be expected for him: either gnosis right here & now, or — if there be any remnant of clinging-sustenance — non-return.
"Let alone half a month. If anyone would develop these four frames of reference in this way for seven days, one of two fruits can be expected for him: either gnosis right here & now, or — if there be any remnant of clinging-sustenance — non-return.
"'This is the direct path for the purification of beings, for the overcoming of sorrow & lamentation, for the disappearance of pain & distress, for the attainment of the right method, & for the realization of Unbinding — in other words, the four frames of reference.' Thus was it said, and in reference to this was it said."
That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted in the Blessed One's words.
By (imperfect) analogy, anyone can learn to play the piano, but for some it is easier than others if they have a natural inclination toward music.
It does feel, however, a bit like the inveterate mall maven who may not know what she's shopping for but is an expert at shopping and therefore goes to the mall just knowing she will find the perfect item.
After 40-plus years, I think it may be enough to be determined and patient in your practice and let "enlightenment" take care of itself.
Perhaps ignorance will similarly arise of itself.
There is often not enough years, practice and patient doctoring to care for maybe scenarios
Is enough enough or just sufficient . . .
:wave:
Abandon all hope of fruition
Sorry lobster
How could anyone know what "enlightenment" was without being enlightened?
How could anyone know what "enlightenment" wasn't without being enlightened?
I mean "know" in the same sense anyone might say they "know" what tea tastes like after having tasted it.
I use the word "know" as distinct from simply believing. If Buddhism relied solely on belief, then what value would it have, considering the fact that belief relies on doubt and Buddhism is said to eradicate doubt. If Buddhism relied on belief, how could it differ from the popular appreciations of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc?
If it's not too far off topic, I would be interested in others' views.
A. Buddhism doesn't rely solely on faith, just as it doesn't rely solely on reason or direct experience.
B. While nibbana in the sense of the extinguishing of greed, hatred, and delusion (SN 38.1) is something that most of us take on faith at the beginning, in some sense, we all have already tasted it. As Buddhadasa Bhikkhu articulates in Nibbana For Everyone:
hope of non fruition.
Still, it will flower.
Prune too much, flowers but no fruit
Conditions wrong, buds drop
When the cherry tree flowers, it is still a tree
Without flowering, still we know its nature
In a garden, we are more hopeful
Have we tended? Have we grafted?
Spring comes, needs met, blossom falls away
Every year is it the same
One of the deepest habitual patterns that we have is to feel that now is not good enough. We think back to the past a lot, which maybe was better than now, or perhaps worse. We also think ahead quite a bit to the future - which we may fear - always holding out hope that it might be a little bit better than now. Even if now is going really well -we have good health and we've met the person of our dreams, or we just had a child or got the job we wanted-nevertheless there's a deep tendency always to think about how it's going to be later. We don't quite give ourselves full credit for who we are in the present.
For example, it's easy to hope that things will improve as a result of meditation, that we won't have such bad tempers anymore or we won't have fear anymore or people will like us more than they do now. Or maybe none of those things are problems for us, but we feel we aren't spiritual enough. Surely we will connect with that awake, brilliant, sacred world that we are going to find through meditation. In everything we read -whether it's philosophy or dharma books or psychology- there's the implication that we're caught in some kind of very small perspective and that if we just did the right things, we'd begin to connect with a bigger world, a vaster world, different from the one we're in now."
http://lojongmindtraining.com/Commentary.aspx?author=3&proverb=26
"In one of the first teachings I ever heard, the teacher said, "I don't know why you came here, but I want to tell you right now that the basis of this whole teaching is that you're never going to get everything together." I felt a little like he had just slapped me in the face or thrown cold water over my head. But I've always remembered it. He said, "You're never going to get it all together." There isn't going to be some precious future time when all the loose ends will be tied up. Even though it was shocking to me, it rang true. One of the things that keeps us unhappy is this continual searching for pleasure or security, searching for a little more comfortable situation, either at the domestic level or at the spiritual level or at the level of mental peace."
I bow at the feet of my teacher Marpa.
And sing this song in response to you.
Listen, pay heed to what I say,
forget your critique for a while.
The best seeing is the way of "nonseeing" --
the radiance of the mind itself.
The best prize is what cannot be looked for --
the priceless treasure of the mind itself.
The most nourishing food is "noneating" --
the transcendent food of samadhi.
The most thirst-quenching drink is "nondrinking" --
the nectar of heartfelt compassion.
Oh, this self-realizing awareness
is beyond words and description!
The mind is not the world of children,
nor is it that of logicians.
Attaining the truth of "nonattainment,"
you receive the highest initiation.
Perceiving the void of high and low,
you reach the sublime stage.
Approaching the truth of "nonmovement,"
you follow the supreme path.
Knowing the end of birth and death,
the ultimate purpose is fulfilled.
Seeing the emptiness of reason,
supreme logic is perfected.
When you know that great and small are groundless,
you have entered the highest gateway.
Comprehending beyond good and evil
opens the way to perfect skill.
Experiencing the dissolution of duality,
you embrace the highest view.
Observing the truth of "nonobservation"
opens the way to meditating.
Comprehending beyond "ought" and "oughtn't"
opens the way to perfect action.
When you realize the truth of "noneffort,"
you are approaching the highest fruition.
Ignorant are those who lack this truth:
arrogant teachers inflated by learning,
scholars bewitched by mere words,
and yogis seduced by prejudice.
For though they yearn for freedom,
they find only enslavement.
I hope this helps, all the best.