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Mosquito-borne diseases?

I reckon this question must have been asked already, but I would like to explain my situation. My country is currently facing a dengue fever epidemic. Some people in my very street got it. I used to be fearful of it, and would kill many mosquitoes. By following the five precepts, I let that go. However, now I wonder if it isn't best to kill the mosquitoes, so they don't kill people?

Comments

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    In my view, some people take this down to ridiculous levels. Don't kill mosquitoes. And risk malaria and dengue fever (may I assume you are in Thailand?).

    And I guess it comes down -- in part -- to what do you consider sentient?

    But even then, I'm sorry, but I think mosquitoes are less important than humans.
    Invincible_summer
  • BhanteLuckyBhanteLucky Alternative lifestyle person in the South Island of New Zealand New Zealand Veteran
    Kill the mosquitoes and accept the very tiny tiny bad karma you will generate.

    vinlynriverflow
  • robotrobot Veteran
    Kill all the mosquitoes you want but also wear bug repellent with Deet in it to protect yourself at night. It really keeps them away.
  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran

    If Buddhists accept that insects and other small organisms are sometimes killed while harvesting vegetables, but vegetarian diets are sometimes preferred to meat-based diets (depending on the tradition), then I think killing mosquitoes is probably okay too, especially in the interest of health and safety. I got dengue fever after being in Thailand... it was terrible.
  • dhammacittadhammacitta Explorer
    edited April 2013
    Thank you for your input.
    I'm not in Thailand, I'm in Brazil, which is often hit badly as well. I have a suspection that I too caught it last month. And people getting in my street as well... That makes me feel a bit responsible for letting these mosquitoes live. So I'm assuming it's okay only in the sense that the intention is not as evil. After all, should we just let the planet get run over by plagues that might kill millions? This might be speciesism, but I agree that human life is more important in the sense of opportunity for good and Awakening, and the overwhelming hurt that a person dying might cause. Truly a intricate matter. This is intentional killing, after all. No chance it was adressed in the suttas? No expert out there?
    riverflow
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Interestingly, some group (the U..N.?) jut came out with a report that says that dengue fever victims are probably 4 times as many people as previously expected (if I am recalling the article correctly), but that some have a reaction to the disease that makes them less susceptible than the cases that are obvious. They believe that realization may end up putting more money into research to develop a vaccine.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    We can only do the best we can do. It is not possible to live and not cause the taking of life at the same time. We only do our best to minimize it. We do not have dengue fever but we have ticks that cause Lymes Disease which is very serious and mosquitoes that carry other diseases like West Nile. We do our best to prevent attracting them, letting them in the house, and getting bitten. We do our best to take care of the world around us, feeding birds and deer through the winter, trying to let flies out of the house instead of just killing them, and so on. But we aren't perfect and don't pretend to be. When I'm outside and a mosquito stings me, or a horse fly takes a chunk of skin off my leg, my reaction is to swat before I even know what I'm doing. Sometimes I try to fan them away or blow them away with my breath but it doesn't always happen.

    Yeah, you might get some karma from killing them. But sometimes it's just unavoidable. Do your best. That's all we can do.

    I do not know much about dengue. Can you contract it just from getting stung? In which case, killing the mosquito after it has already stung you won't do much good anyone and the best way to prevent it is to prevent getting bitten at all. Repellant, carefulness when coming in the house (brush mosquitos off your pants before you go indoors) wears appropriate clothing and mosquito netting if needed and so on.
    riverflow
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Yes, you get dengue from being "bitten", very similar in the way you can get malaria.

    The issue is in what you do for prevention. Insecticide, cleaning up standing water where mosquitoes can breed, etc. I don't think it's so much about swatting one...although every mosquito you do swat is one less than will be stinging anyone.

    While living in Thailand, in terms of health, it was my greatest fear. It's often called "bone break fever" (to give you an idea of how painful it is), can spiral out of control to become dengue hemorrhagic fever or dengue shock syndrome, where there can be permanent damage to some organs. Once you get it, you usually become immune to repeats...except that there are 4 varieties of the virus, and immunity is only for one of the 4...so you could get it 3 more times. And, the more times you get it, the more risk of severe complications
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    Sometimes I figure that too, that if I kill some they aren't there to bite others. But in reality, there are so many billions of them, that if I kill a couple hundred over the course of a few months it's likely to make any impact at all on anyone else getting bitten or not. Of course there is always the chance that the one I kill is the one that might have made my neighbor sick, but I think those chances are pretty darn slim.
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    All sincere Buddhists come face to face with this type of question in their practise.
    It's where concepts of killing and suffering understandable get muddled together.

    There is no life that doesn't act as the grim reaper to some other life. Thinking that their might be some activity of ours that does not entail the killing of others, is not only being ignorant of the laws of existence but in itself is a cause of more suffering.

    The nitty gritty of our trouble with this comes from how we attach to the various identities involved. (ours or theirs). Part of the purpose of a Buddhist meditation practise is to expose the illusory nature of our concepts that there is a separate "ours or theirs".
    It's not about applying different values to different lives which is really just another way of validating our own identity but is instead about how to face this issue in a way that doesn't continue to feed the separation between our own identity and others.

    We hopefully make various choices to minimize the suffering we create around us but nothing stops the death that we wield with every breath. No Suttra can absolve you from this truth.


    This is why the Buddhist Suttras don't attend to the measuring of death but instead just illuminate the path to the cessation of suffering's cause.
    This, at least, is where my question get's answered.
    Invincible_summerriverflowFicus_religiosa
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    Proper community level prevention and self protection will probably do more to protect you from the disease than killing every mosquito that you see. But still if one is trying to bite you I say kill the fucker. :rarr:
    MaryAnne
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    karasti said:

    Sometimes I figure that too, that if I kill some they aren't there to bite others. But in reality, there are so many billions of them, that if I kill a couple hundred over the course of a few months it's likely to make any impact at all on anyone else getting bitten or not. Of course there is always the chance that the one I kill is the one that might have made my neighbor sick, but I think those chances are pretty darn slim.

    I'm not so sure about that. My understanding is that mosquitoes often pick up these diseases from infected blood of a host...so it really does pass from person to person via the insect.

  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited April 2013

    I reckon this question must have been asked already, but I would like to explain my situation. My country is currently facing a dengue fever epidemic. Some people in my very street got it. I used to be fearful of it, and would kill many mosquitoes. By following the five precepts, I let that go. However, now I wonder if it isn't best to kill the mosquitoes, so they don't kill people?

    It depends on what you mean by "isn't it best to kill the moquitoes, so they don't kill people". Were you planning on going around the neighborhood with a spray gun of insecticide? Or just kill the ones that land on you? Killing the few that land on you won't achieve much in terms of sparing other people. There are millions more mosquitoes where those few came from. You won't make a dent in the mosquito population. Better to find sources of standing water and eliminate the environment where mosquitoes breed. You could start a neighborhood project, that could grow to a regional one.

    As far as trying to save yourself from illness, all you have to do is a) apply mosquito repellant, b) maintain screens on your doors and windows in good condition, and c) if one lands on you, blow it off with a puff of air.

    An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

    However, that said, the Dalai Lama has confessed to killing mosquitoes, occasionally. Not as a regular practice, but occasionally.
    person
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Let's do remember that DEET is dangerous.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    That's probably true @vinlyn. I just don't know that it's really any sort of effective means at stopping the spread of disease.

    We live in the woods, so we're surrounded by water. We have a lake north of us, a river that winds west and south of us and a swamp to the east, all within a quarter mile or so. So, we're pretty much stuck with the water, lol. Bird bathes and ditches are some of the worst places for mosquitoes. If you can, make sure ditches are well drained and either don't use bird baths, or refill it with fresh water on a regular basis and rinse it out to get rid of any mosquito eggs. Just wearing proper clothing can be a great deterrent but I imagine it's a lot harder to wear jeans and a sweatshirt in Brazil than it is in Minnesota!
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I wish we were "stuck" with some water out here in Colorado!
  • dhammacittadhammacitta Explorer
    edited April 2013
    I can't deal with inseticide, I have asthma. How much better it would be if the government actually did something! Not reelecting these people at all. That's the best I can do. It does seem foolish now to think that I'm saving people. There is this guilt I feel, like all tragedies are my fault. Probably need to address this with a therapist. And gotta buy me a repellant. And try to leave the mosquitoes alone. *Try*
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited April 2013
    Well, I wasn't seriously suggesting you go around the neighborhood spraying down people's houses, lol! Just putting out some questions to help you clarify your thoughts. It sounds like you're working out your issues in this regard, good work!

    What part of Brazil? With the seasonal flooding that goes on in a large part of the country, there's nothing any gov't could do about that. Improving drainage and sanitation systems, though, is a reasonable expectation.

    You know, the Carter Center (Pres. Jimmy Carter's charitable org.) has health initiatives around the world that address problems like this. You could look it up online, and see if you could get any ideas on safe and affordable solutions to mosquito-born diseases.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    lol I should have said stuck with the mosquito breeding grounds. There's really no way to get away from it. We've been in drought conditions too. We have a lot of lakes and rivers, yes, but they are all several feet low compared to what they should be. Granted the 10 inches of snow we got in past few days helps with that. Not so much the mosquitoes. Always a catch!

    @dhammacitta you can make homemade remedies that help with repelling things, too. We have a lot of natural products available here that work decently. Not as well as the high powered stuff, but decent. Perhaps you can find something similar. Also, you might be able to find them in a type that doesn't require you to spray them and thus wouldn't affect your asthma. My oldest is asthmatic and he uses a cream repellant so it doesn't irritate his lungs.
  • @Dakini Oh, that goes to show how I need to work on my skills at recognizing irony! :) I live in the Southeastern part, in the state of Sao Paulo. It's not awfully raining like the Amazon or something. So these politicians are making me nervous. Heck, even Brazilian celebrities are getting it! We're bound to lose quite a few, I'm afraid. I looked at the website, but it doesn't have info on dengue, only in some diseases I don't know and malaria, which isn't common in S. Paulo. It's cool , I'll check out some other sites.
    But as @karasti said, homemade solutions seem like a good idea. I completely forgot about that. I'll see if I can find a good way to get rid of them, without hurting them. I miss being the person that 'wouldn't hurt a fly'.
    By the way, it's both enlightening and distressing to know there is no safe haven in the world. I thought about moving to a country less neglected, but I'd only find another flawed, flawed country. Just differently flawed.
    karasti
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    @dhammacitta, my thought was to see how they deal with mosquitoes in gen'l. Doesn't have to be the same exact disease you guys have. But what strategies do they recommend for keeping disease to a minimum in mosquito areas, whether it's malaria or whatever?
  • @Dakini In that case, they don't say much, except for taking anti-malarial meds (doesn't apply), and sleeping with a net, which wouldn't help much as the dengue mosquito has diurnal habits, instead of nocturnal habits, like the malaria one. Thanks for the help, though. Fortunately, it's getting colder in here, so I'm hoping for a significant drop in cases. I'll be doing my bit and check the yard for puddles.
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