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Is (Buddhist) Meditation Just A Form Of Brainwashing ?
@SpinyNorman said:
But your negative impression of "brainwashing" is actually correct:
'brainwashing' is a concept
if we go further it is a perception
if i have a negative impression or positive impression of a perception how is it correct?
as far as 'my analysis' goes identifying the perception as a perception and knows that there is no inherent thing in that perception (no self or not self) there couldn't be negative or positive response to such perception
so one just 'let go' of that perception
Brainwashing has nothing to do with Buddhist meditation.
this is not for argument sake @SpinyNorman, but could you define Buddhist meditation in your own words please?
@SpinyNorman said:
Brainwashing has nothing to do with Buddhist meditation.
If the meditation involves visualizing the teacher as the Buddha, an all-knowing benevolent being, as in guru devotion practices, it could be regarded as brainwashing. Especially if the teacher doesn't observe good ethics.
Buddhism is one of the 4 historical religions of Russia. Not that it matters to a discussion of brainwashing and indoctrination. And yes, some of the lamas did end up in the gulag, fwiw.
@vinlyn said:
I'm assuming Buddhists in the USSR were primarily far east of the Urals? Or do you really mean Russia proper?
The Republic of Kalmykia, populated by a tribe of Mongols, is west of the Urals. It promotes itself as "Europe's only Buddhist republic". Also, there's a Buddhist monastery in St. Petersburg that was built under the last czar. The Soviets closed it, and who knows what happened to the monks. But it re-opened after 1990. But the main Buddhist regions under the USSR were Kalmykia in western Russia, and the Buryat Republic and related autonomous regions, and Tuva, which became part of the USSR after WWII.
@Dakini said:
The Republic of Kalmykia, populated by a tribe of Mongols, is west of the Urals. It promotes itself as "Europe's only Buddhist republic". Also, there's a Buddhist monastery in St. Petersburg that was built under the last czar. The Soviets closed it, and who knows what happened to the monks. But it re-opened after 1990. But the main Buddhist regions under the USSR were Kalmykia in western Russia, and the Buryat Republic and related autonomous regions, and Tuva, which became part of the USSR after WWII.
Wow! That's interesting! Thanks for posting that. Just read the Wikipedia entry, too. Thanks for the info!!
I don't really know too much about guru yoga, but I am curious if you are saying guru yoga in general is brainwashing? Or in specific cases.
I had in mind specifically the ngondro practice, which involves visualizing the guru as Buddha, and prostrating oneself to the guru. But the point was that it can be construed as brainwashing.
Some people consider guru yoga to be that, because you're supposed to suspend critical thinking (or some students have been told to not question), and accept the guru as a living represention of the Buddha and the "holy Dharma", and as supreme benevolent authority over oneself. So, people who are concerned about cults and some practitioners who have run afoul of corrupt teachers say that an intense practice of this type of daily visualization and prayer to the guru as quasi-Divine authority has some hallmarks of "brainwashing". It's controversial.
If we take one of the definitions of brainwashing given above, "Persuasion by propaganda", well... it could fit. I suppose religion in general would fit.
I guess the ultimate question is, "Is that good or bad"? So what if religion is brainwashing, a type of propaganda? Is that inherently a bad thing? It really depends. If it turns into a cult and people get harmed in some way, then yes. Otherwise, perhaps "no".
As I said I don't know much about guru yoga. I can't imagine my teacher asking people to suspend critical thinking. I know that she does guru yoga with some of her students. As I have heard echos of her teaching they imagine all of the lineage above them 'cheering them on' (my words) all arising from the crown of the head or whatever. So all of the whole lineage is imagined and not just the guru. Just analyzing that without any instruction (just echos) I imagine it could be reassuring in a cold cruel world to visualize all the enlightened beings supporting you in your effort. Anyhow that's what I have heard about guru yoga. An aol 'sangha' leader GhanaBhuti said that guru yoga was one of the few things that would be helpful for Dhyana addiction. Not to compare Dhyana to drugs because Dhyana can be useful, but I guess it would be like cutting crack cold turkey because you 'found Jesus'. Just thoughts on the 'echos' I have heard, but like I say I don't know too much about it.
@SpinyNorman said:
Brainwashing has nothing to do with Buddhist meditation.
Perhaps.
Perhaps not.
Controlling the mind is one way the Middle Way is practiced. Eventually this washing away of attachment to thoughts, leads to transparency.
So in another sense it has everything to do with Buddhist meditation.
OK new take on this thread as it's becoming tired and booooring now - lets just say that for the sake of being we can do what we want, we have free will and can act however we want to: and if that means sitting and watching our mind in a state called meditation, fine, and praying or making malas that's also fine, or creating shrines to our true selves or the buddha we rvevere or god that buddhists can't relate to because , well we are just a n intsy bit of an aspect of it's being, and we we don't and can't relate to because, well he's it really, and we are just moulded in his imagination. So as an object being subjectively scrutinised according to gods criteria as a subject within it's imagination, I'm nought bout what I am in this moment.
Regardless, WHO is doing YOUR brain washing and how are YOU allowing it to happen! Cause as sure as hell, which is as hot or as cold as you can withstand (because hell must be an extreme or you wouldn't recognise it as such!) you're deeply focussing n irrellevant features of buddha nature.
...\lol/... don't take my word for it test it for yourself - looking forward to the reply(ies)
@BeyondTheAstral said:
Religion is brainwashing. A true spiritual path has no dogma, ritual or blind faith.
You can chalk many things out on Buddhism but never blind faith.
Blind is in the eyes of the beholder (mind the pun) and in Buddhadharma we are encouraged to pass every belief under scrutiny.
But then, is Buddhism a religion?
@DhammaDragon said:
You can chalk many things out on Buddhism but never blind faith.
Oh, not so sure about that. All the times I saw Thai Buddhists "praying" for a winning lottery ticket (or something like that), I thought that was blind (and rather stupid) faith.
The purpose of Buddhist meditation is to "wash" the mind of greed, anger and delusion thus putting an end to dukkha. Anything more than that isn't Buddhist meditation.
@vinlyn said:
All the times I saw Thai Buddhists "praying" for a winning lottery ticket (or something like that), I thought that was blind (and rather stupid) faith.
3) Attachment to rites and rituals (Silabbatupadana). This refers to clinging to meaningless traditional practices that have been thoughtlessly handed down, practices which people choose to regard as sacred and not to be changed under any circumstances. In Thailand there is no less of this sort of thing than in other places. There are beliefs involving amulets, magical artifacts and all manner of secret procedures. There exist, for instance, the beliefs that on rising from sleep one must pronounce a mystical formula over water and then wash one's face in it, that before relieving nature one must turn and face this and that point of the compass, and that before one partakes of food or goes to sleep there have to be other rituals. There are beliefs in spirits and celestial beings, in sacred trees and all manner of magical objects. This sort of thing is completely irrational. People just don't think rationally; they simply cling to the established pattern. They have always done it that way and they just refuse to change. Many people professing to be Buddhists cling to these beliefs as well and so have it both ways; and this even includes some who call themselves bhikkhus, disciples of the Buddha. Religious doctrines based on belief in God, angels and sacred objects are particularly prone to these kinds of views; there is no reason why we Buddhists should not be completely free of this sort of thing.
The reason we have to be free of such views is that if we practice any aspect of Dhamma unaware of its original purpose, unconscious of the rationale of it, the result is bound to be the foolish, naive assumption that it is something magical. Thus we find people taking upon themselves the moral precepts or practicing Dhamma, purely and simply to conform with the accepted pattern, the traditional ceremonial, just to follow the example that has been handed down. They know nothing of the rationale of these things, doing them just out of force of habit. Such firmly established clinging is hard to correct. This is what is meant by thoughtless attachment to traditional practices. Insight meditation or tranquillity meditation as practiced nowadays, if carried out without any knowledge of rhyme and reason and the real objectives of it, is bound to motivated by grasping and clinging, misdirected, and just some kind of foolishness. And even the taking of the Precepts, five, eight, or ten, or however many, if done in the belief that one will thereby become a magical, supernatural, holy individual possessing psychic or other powers, becomes just misdirected routine, motivated simply by attachment to rite and ritual.
It is necessary, then, that we be very cautious. Buddhist practice must have a sound foundation in thought and understanding and desire to destroy the defilements. Otherwise it will be just foolishness; it will be misdirected, irrational a just a waste of time.
@vinlyn said:
All the times I saw Thai Buddhists "praying" for a winning lottery ticket (or something like that), I thought that was blind (and rather stupid) faith.
Humans will be human. But this raises a good point. Where are the sutra police? If the Buddha taught that prayer and ritual were useless, why do so many Buddhists engage in those activities?
@SpinyNorman said:
I still think that saying Buddhist meditation is just a form of brainwashing gives entirely the wrong impression.
@SpinyNorman, you have every right to think that, and I promise I won't use any brainwashing techniques to change your mind, change your mind, change your mind., change your mind ....
_Buddhist meditation is practicing the Four frames of reference/four mindfulness (sathara-sathipattana); four frames are the body, feelings, the mind and mental qualities
such meditation practice develops seven factors of awakening
which leads to Full Enlightenment (Unbinding)
(Wings to Awakening by Thanissaro Bikkhu)_
so i think (i have confidence) if one practices Satipatthana, one can give any name to it without any problem to one's practice because the results would be the same
@how said:
Is (Buddhist) Meditation Just A Form Of Brainwashing or the manifestation of a doctrine or just how its adherents actually practice it?
I don't find the term "brainwashing" applies to Buddhist meditation.
When I talked about the human factor and a failure in people's personal application of the Dharma, I was responding very specifically to a comment by @vinlyn having to do with blind faith.
He had said: 'All the times I saw Thai Buddhists "praying" for a winning lottery ticket (or something like that), I thought that was blind (and rather stupid) faith.'
My answer cannot be taken out of the context of his comment.
What I meant above was something in the lines of "Problem is with people's understanding of the Dharma, not with the Dharma itself."
People's personal application of the Dharma is as limited as their understanding of the Dharma.
Once more, I can't relate "brainwashing" and "Buddhist meditation," unless we refer to a Buddhist practitioner who finds himself at the mercy of some cult which applies brainwashing methods on him.
Edit: I use the word Dharma in place of "doctrine" here, because doctrine might lend itself to misunderstandings.
Brain washing or brain conditioning is simply seeing what we hope to see or expect to see, regardless of whether it is there to be seen or not.
It is the same with hearing or tasting or smelling or feeling or thinking.
Giving it a Holy or Dharmic status does not absolve it of being brainwashing.
Whether it is instigated from external or internal conditions....is beside the point.
All we can do is to question everything, knowing that brainwashing always depends on
our unwillingness to sincerely question it.
Because meditation is really the journey from being brainwashed to becoming less so, I salute all meditators who claim to be free of brainwashing for surely such practice can compare to the Buddha's.
Now you'll have to pardon me while I return to my duet with meditation and my own brainwashing.
@pineblossom said:
Reality is a social construction ..... words are the building blocks. Are you building you own reality?
Personally quite the reverse.
Social reality builds blocks, that is why we eventually find how flimsy these constructs are. Sometimes building them up ready for 'reality' to collapse without going crazy . . . So I would suggest dharma is a rearrangement or softening of irregular building . . .
@Shoshin said:
Does ones aversion towards the word "brainwashing"(after all it's just a word) stem from being brainwashed into thinking of it as such?
It's quite interesting how some words can effect us more than others....
I speak for myself here: I have no aversion to the word "brainwashing," and though I am not that picky for semantics, I do have aversion to the wrong impression the misuse of certain words can do in certain contexts.
Buddhist meditation helps you take charge of your thinking process, recondition yourself to be able to grow more aware of your delusions, and in NewAgey terms, take charge of your life.
Brainwashing is all the opposite: let someone else do the thinking for you, befuddle yourself deeper into your own delusions, let others take control of your life.
How do you, @Shoshin, feel that both notions can relate?
No matter how much I ponder the question, both notions together simply don't add up with me.
@DhammaDragon, in Tibetan the word for meditation is Gom which means "to become familiar with"
However when it comes to the words "meditation" & "brainwashing"in all honesty I really don't pay them much thought...In other words I'm not attached to the words , I just see them as words to which if I so choose (I have a choice) I can attach wholesome or unwholesome meaning to...Seeing things in a different light so to speak...
But I stress that's just how I personally see things... "Different Strokes For Different Folks"... I mentioned before, it's interesting to see how others see things, and how words play a big part in our lives and can inspire us to do things or to feel a certain way ....
@Shoshin said:
However when it comes to the words "meditation" & "brainwashing"in all honesty I really don't pay them much thought...In other words I'm not attached to the words , I just see them as words to which if I so choose (I have a choice) I can attach wholesome or unwholesome meaning to...Seeing things in a different light so to speak...
Iz plan.
The use, abuse and independent choice of emotive words comes about when we have space between our monkey grabbing attachment to defined, narrow, pedantic defining.
For example someone says we are brainwashed and rather than rejecting the negative intent in this potentially derogatory term we own and choose to accept its potential positive cleansing effect.
I bad. Which I think might be good in some vernaculars . . .
I suppose we could all make up our own meanings for words, and forever talk at cross-purposes and be in a muddle and not communicate effectively.
I wouldn't recommend it though.
@SpinyNorman said:
I suppose we could all make up our own meanings for words, and forever talk at cross-purposes and be in a muddle and not communicate effectively.
I wouldn't recommend it though.
. . . strangely enough that sounds exactly like most communication. It is why I choose to misunderstand what is said and find a higher meaning if possible. Ah well, clarity is a wonderful ideal but then we are such opaque and partial creatures. Well I iz . . .
0
silverIn the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded.USA, Left coast.Veteran
@lobster said:
. . . strangely enough that sounds exactly like most communication. It is why I choose to misunderstand what is said and find a higher meaning if possible. Ah well, clarity is a wonderful ideal but then we are such opaque and partial creatures. Well I iz . . .
For some reason, I find that quite intriguing of an idea, @lobster. I like that...choosing to misunderstand what is said - hmmm.
@silver said:
For some reason, I find that quite intriguing of an idea
Let me give an example from my teachers behaviour. He would never hear an intransigent and solid certainty from people. Quite skilfully he would pull out a potential different possibility in people's closed mindedness. He of course did not win friends because people prefer agreement and reinforcement. However moving people forward is a service, whether the movement is known or goes unnoticed.
In a more focussed situation, for example amongst practitioners and Middle Wayers, we might find the need to be right, pedantic or transparently clear is sometimes skilfull and sometimes beyond our capacity to offer or receive . . .
@vinlyn said:
Oh, not so sure about that. All the times I saw Thai Buddhists "praying" for a winning lottery ticket (or something like that), I thought that was blind (and rather stupid) faith.
Kinda like when you're approaching a red light and you wish the damned thing would change to green . Or you playing pool and and you say something to the rolling ball about getting in the pocket.
Prayer in the case you describe is just a manifestation of hope, and we ALL do it to one degree of another, Vinnie, even YOU!
0
silverIn the beginning there was nothing, and then it exploded.USA, Left coast.Veteran
@lobster said:Let me give an example from my teachers behaviour. He would never hear an intransigent and solid certainty from people. Quite skilfully he would pull out a potential different possibility in people's closed mindedness. He of course did not win friends because people prefer agreement and reinforcement. However moving people forward is a service, whether the movement is known or goes unnoticed. In a more focussed situation, for example amongst practitioners and Middle Wayers, we might find the need to be right, pedantic or transparently clear is sometimes skilfull and sometimes beyond our capacity to offer or receive . . .
(i)
With a commitment to accomplish
the highest welfare for all
(Who surpass my most precious ideals)
I will learn to hold them supremely dear
(ii)
Whenever I associate with others, I will learn
to think of myself as the least among all,
And respectfully hold others as being supreme,
From the depth of my heart.
(iii)
In all actions, I will learn to search into my own mind,
And as soon as an afflictive emotion arises,
enabling myself and others,
I will firmly face and avert it.
(iv)
I will cherish beings of bad nature,
And those oppressed by strong negativity's and sufferings,
As if I had found a precious treasure
Very difficult to find.
(v)
When others, out of jealousy, treat me badly
With abuse, slander and so on,
I will learn to take all loss
And offer the victory to them.
(vi)
When one whom I have benefited with great hope
Unreasonably hurts me very badly,
I will learn to view that person
As an excellent spiritual guide.
(vii)
In short, I will learn to offer to everyone without exception
All help and happiness directly and indirectly,
And secretly take upon myself
All the harms and suffering of others.
(viii)
I will learn to keep all these efforts
Undefiled by the stains of discursive conceptions,
And, by understanding all phenomena to be like illusions,
I will be released.
~O~O~O~
That's it, huh? Boy I'm going to need a lot o' luck with (some of) that! :#
Comments
'brainwashing' is a concept
if we go further it is a perception
if i have a negative impression or positive impression of a perception how is it correct?
as far as 'my analysis' goes identifying the perception as a perception and knows that there is no inherent thing in that perception (no self or not self) there couldn't be negative or positive response to such perception
so one just 'let go' of that perception
this is not for argument sake @SpinyNorman, but could you define Buddhist meditation in your own words please?
that would be for the benefit of others too
thanks
If the meditation involves visualizing the teacher as the Buddha, an all-knowing benevolent being, as in guru devotion practices, it could be regarded as brainwashing. Especially if the teacher doesn't observe good ethics.
'brainwashing' is a concept
It's a word with a recognised meaning.
Here's another definition: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brainwashing
I've never come across a Buddhist meditation which involves "forcible indoctrination".
The indoctrination people received in the USSR wasn't "forcible". Definitions can be tricky.
Here's the other definition from your link, Spiny:
persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship
Religious indoctrination can be considered under that definition.
What....Buddhists in Russia.....?
Only in the Gulag.
Buddhism is one of the 4 historical religions of Russia. Not that it matters to a discussion of brainwashing and indoctrination. And yes, some of the lamas did end up in the gulag, fwiw.
I'm assuming Buddhists in the USSR were primarily far east of the Urals? Or do you really mean Russia proper?
Religion is brainwashing. A true spiritual path has no dogma, ritual or blind faith.
The Republic of Kalmykia, populated by a tribe of Mongols, is west of the Urals. It promotes itself as "Europe's only Buddhist republic". Also, there's a Buddhist monastery in St. Petersburg that was built under the last czar. The Soviets closed it, and who knows what happened to the monks. But it re-opened after 1990. But the main Buddhist regions under the USSR were Kalmykia in western Russia, and the Buryat Republic and related autonomous regions, and Tuva, which became part of the USSR after WWII.
So, are you saying that those who see Buddhism as a religion are being brainwashed?
Good point. So is Buddhism a religion, or a spiritual path? Or does it depend?
Wow! That's interesting! Thanks for posting that. Just read the Wikipedia entry, too. Thanks for the info!!
Any Buddhist who claims to have never seen a brainwashed Buddhist in the mirror has yet to have properly rinsed off their own brainwashing.
@Dakini
I don't really know too much about guru yoga, but I am curious if you are saying guru yoga in general is brainwashing? Or in specific cases.
I forgot to add the fabric softener!~!
I had in mind specifically the ngondro practice, which involves visualizing the guru as Buddha, and prostrating oneself to the guru. But the point was that it can be construed as brainwashing.
Some people consider guru yoga to be that, because you're supposed to suspend critical thinking (or some students have been told to not question), and accept the guru as a living represention of the Buddha and the "holy Dharma", and as supreme benevolent authority over oneself. So, people who are concerned about cults and some practitioners who have run afoul of corrupt teachers say that an intense practice of this type of daily visualization and prayer to the guru as quasi-Divine authority has some hallmarks of "brainwashing". It's controversial.
If we take one of the definitions of brainwashing given above, "Persuasion by propaganda", well... it could fit. I suppose religion in general would fit.
I guess the ultimate question is, "Is that good or bad"? So what if religion is brainwashing, a type of propaganda? Is that inherently a bad thing? It really depends. If it turns into a cult and people get harmed in some way, then yes. Otherwise, perhaps "no".
As I said I don't know much about guru yoga. I can't imagine my teacher asking people to suspend critical thinking. I know that she does guru yoga with some of her students. As I have heard echos of her teaching they imagine all of the lineage above them 'cheering them on' (my words) all arising from the crown of the head or whatever. So all of the whole lineage is imagined and not just the guru. Just analyzing that without any instruction (just echos) I imagine it could be reassuring in a cold cruel world to visualize all the enlightened beings supporting you in your effort. Anyhow that's what I have heard about guru yoga. An aol 'sangha' leader GhanaBhuti said that guru yoga was one of the few things that would be helpful for Dhyana addiction. Not to compare Dhyana to drugs because Dhyana can be useful, but I guess it would be like cutting crack cold turkey because you 'found Jesus'. Just thoughts on the 'echos' I have heard, but like I say I don't know too much about it.
Perhaps.
Perhaps not.
Controlling the mind is one way the Middle Way is practiced. Eventually this washing away of attachment to thoughts, leads to transparency.
So in another sense it has everything to do with Buddhist meditation.
OK new take on this thread as it's becoming tired and booooring now - lets just say that for the sake of being we can do what we want, we have free will and can act however we want to: and if that means sitting and watching our mind in a state called meditation, fine, and praying or making malas that's also fine, or creating shrines to our true selves or the buddha we rvevere or god that buddhists can't relate to because , well we are just a n intsy bit of an aspect of it's being, and we we don't and can't relate to because, well he's it really, and we are just moulded in his imagination. So as an object being subjectively scrutinised according to gods criteria as a subject within it's imagination, I'm nought bout what I am in this moment.
Regardless, WHO is doing YOUR brain washing and how are YOU allowing it to happen! Cause as sure as hell, which is as hot or as cold as you can withstand (because hell must be an extreme or you wouldn't recognise it as such!) you're deeply focussing n irrellevant features of buddha nature.
...\lol/... don't take my word for it test it for yourself - looking forward to the reply(ies)
Some people's brains have been fried
You can chalk many things out on Buddhism but never blind faith.
Blind is in the eyes of the beholder (mind the pun) and in Buddhadharma we are encouraged to pass every belief under scrutiny.
But then, is Buddhism a religion?
Oh, not so sure about that. All the times I saw Thai Buddhists "praying" for a winning lottery ticket (or something like that), I thought that was blind (and rather stupid) faith.
Again, the human factor.
Failure is in people's personal application of the doctrine, not in the doctrine itself.
The purpose of Buddhist meditation is to "wash" the mind of greed, anger and delusion thus putting an end to dukkha. Anything more than that isn't Buddhist meditation.
Fair enough.
Buddhadasa Bikkhu would explain that as the third fetter:
http://www.buddhanet.net/budasa7.htm
I still think that saying Buddhist meditation is just a form of brainwashing gives entirely the wrong impression.
I agree. I don't even find the term pertinent to Buddhist meditation.
It might make sense to talk about reconditioning or deconditioning.
Voilà. Some members advanced those.
Humans will be human. But this raises a good point. Where are the sutra police? If the Buddha taught that prayer and ritual were useless, why do so many Buddhists engage in those activities?
On patrol . . .
and now back to the Whitewashing . . . Eh brainwashing
@SpinyNorman, you have every right to think that, and I promise I won't use any brainwashing techniques to change your mind, change your mind, change your mind., change your mind ....
_Buddhist meditation is practicing the Four frames of reference/four mindfulness (sathara-sathipattana); four frames are the body, feelings, the mind and mental qualities
such meditation practice develops seven factors of awakening
which leads to Full Enlightenment (Unbinding)
(Wings to Awakening by Thanissaro Bikkhu)_
so i think (i have confidence) if one practices Satipatthana, one can give any name to it without any problem to one's practice because the results would be the same
Is (Buddhist) Meditation Just A Form Of Brainwashing or the manifestation of a doctrine or just how its adherents actually practice it?
I don't find the term "brainwashing" applies to Buddhist meditation.
When I talked about the human factor and a failure in people's personal application of the Dharma, I was responding very specifically to a comment by @vinlyn having to do with blind faith.
He had said: 'All the times I saw Thai Buddhists "praying" for a winning lottery ticket (or something like that), I thought that was blind (and rather stupid) faith.'
My answer cannot be taken out of the context of his comment.
What I meant above was something in the lines of "Problem is with people's understanding of the Dharma, not with the Dharma itself."
People's personal application of the Dharma is as limited as their understanding of the Dharma.
Once more, I can't relate "brainwashing" and "Buddhist meditation," unless we refer to a Buddhist practitioner who finds himself at the mercy of some cult which applies brainwashing methods on him.
Edit: I use the word Dharma in place of "doctrine" here, because doctrine might lend itself to misunderstandings.
That sounds more like a lobotomy
Brain washing or brain conditioning is simply seeing what we hope to see or expect to see, regardless of whether it is there to be seen or not.
It is the same with hearing or tasting or smelling or feeling or thinking.
Giving it a Holy or Dharmic status does not absolve it of being brainwashing.
Whether it is instigated from external or internal conditions....is beside the point.
All we can do is to question everything, knowing that brainwashing always depends on
our unwillingness to sincerely question it.
Because meditation is really the journey from being brainwashed to becoming less so, I salute all meditators who claim to be free of brainwashing for surely such practice can compare to the Buddha's.
Now you'll have to pardon me while I return to my duet with meditation and my own brainwashing.
Reality is a social construction ..... words are the building blocks. Are you building you own reality?
Personally quite the reverse.
Social reality builds blocks, that is why we eventually find how flimsy these constructs are. Sometimes building them up ready for 'reality' to collapse without going crazy . . . So I would suggest dharma is a rearrangement or softening of irregular building . . .
I speak for myself here: I have no aversion to the word "brainwashing," and though I am not that picky for semantics, I do have aversion to the wrong impression the misuse of certain words can do in certain contexts.
Buddhist meditation helps you take charge of your thinking process, recondition yourself to be able to grow more aware of your delusions, and in NewAgey terms, take charge of your life.
Brainwashing is all the opposite: let someone else do the thinking for you, befuddle yourself deeper into your own delusions, let others take control of your life.
How do you, @Shoshin, feel that both notions can relate?
No matter how much I ponder the question, both notions together simply don't add up with me.
@DhammaDragon, in Tibetan the word for meditation is Gom which means "to become familiar with"
However when it comes to the words "meditation" & "brainwashing"in all honesty I really don't pay them much thought...In other words I'm not attached to the words , I just see them as words to which if I so choose (I have a choice) I can attach wholesome or unwholesome meaning to...Seeing things in a different light so to speak...
But I stress that's just how I personally see things... "Different Strokes For Different Folks"... I mentioned before, it's interesting to see how others see things, and how words play a big part in our lives and can inspire us to do things or to feel a certain way ....
Iz plan.
The use, abuse and independent choice of emotive words comes about when we have space between our monkey grabbing attachment to defined, narrow, pedantic defining.
For example someone says we are brainwashed and rather than rejecting the negative intent in this potentially derogatory term we own and choose to accept its potential positive cleansing effect.
I bad. Which I think might be good in some vernaculars . . .
I suppose we could all make up our own meanings for words, and forever talk at cross-purposes and be in a muddle and not communicate effectively.
I wouldn't recommend it though.
. . . strangely enough that sounds exactly like most communication. It is why I choose to misunderstand what is said and find a higher meaning if possible. Ah well, clarity is a wonderful ideal but then we are such opaque and partial creatures. Well I iz . . .
For some reason, I find that quite intriguing of an idea, @lobster. I like that...choosing to misunderstand what is said - hmmm.
Let me give an example from my teachers behaviour. He would never hear an intransigent and solid certainty from people. Quite skilfully he would pull out a potential different possibility in people's closed mindedness. He of course did not win friends because people prefer agreement and reinforcement. However moving people forward is a service, whether the movement is known or goes unnoticed.
In a more focussed situation, for example amongst practitioners and Middle Wayers, we might find the need to be right, pedantic or transparently clear is sometimes skilfull and sometimes beyond our capacity to offer or receive . . .
Being 'wrong' is a skill.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040104153000/http://pages.britishlibrary.net/edjason/eight/
Kinda like when you're approaching a red light and you wish the damned thing would change to green . Or you playing pool and and you say something to the rolling ball about getting in the pocket.
Prayer in the case you describe is just a manifestation of hope, and we ALL do it to one degree of another, Vinnie, even YOU!
Being 'wrong' is a skill.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040104153000/http://pages.britishlibrary.net/edjason/eight/
>
(i)
With a commitment to accomplish
the highest welfare for all
(Who surpass my most precious ideals)
I will learn to hold them supremely dear
(ii)
Whenever I associate with others, I will learn
to think of myself as the least among all,
And respectfully hold others as being supreme,
From the depth of my heart.
(iii)
In all actions, I will learn to search into my own mind,
And as soon as an afflictive emotion arises,
enabling myself and others,
I will firmly face and avert it.
(iv)
I will cherish beings of bad nature,
And those oppressed by strong negativity's and sufferings,
As if I had found a precious treasure
Very difficult to find.
(v)
When others, out of jealousy, treat me badly
With abuse, slander and so on,
I will learn to take all loss
And offer the victory to them.
(vi)
When one whom I have benefited with great hope
Unreasonably hurts me very badly,
I will learn to view that person
As an excellent spiritual guide.
(vii)
In short, I will learn to offer to everyone without exception
All help and happiness directly and indirectly,
And secretly take upon myself
All the harms and suffering of others.
(viii)
I will learn to keep all these efforts
Undefiled by the stains of discursive conceptions,
And, by understanding all phenomena to be like illusions,
I will be released.
~O~O~O~
That's it, huh? Boy I'm going to need a lot o' luck with (some of) that! :#