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Discernment and Judgement
mockeymind
Veteran
I read something about the Four Noble Truth can be discern when wisdom arises. Can anyone help me define in buddhist perspective the difference between discrnment and judgement- as to when and where the two applies. Thanks.
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I thought it would be a simple case of first looking up a dictionary definition for both terms, but actually, not so.
The definition of 'discernment' contains the word 'judgement' - and vice-versa.
Therefore, from my own personal perspective and evaluation or understanding of the words, I have always assumed that 'discernment' was the ability to see both sides equally, without an agenda, and use Wisdom to establish the better choice, whereas 'judgement' always carries a bias, a proviso, a personal prejudice.
The official dictionaries may not see things in those lights... so the above is really my own interpretation...
People often think about "judgement" in the pejorative sense of being judgemental, though that isn't really accurate:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/judgement
In any case it's about developing wisdom and insight.
This previous discussion might be of interest: http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/14363/judgment-vs-discernment
Ooh, well found!
I looked to see whether I'd made a contribution, and frankly, my notion of the two hasn't actually altered since then...
But if I were to clarify, I would add that my definition of 'judgement' doesn't necessarily mean one is incorrect or unskilful. It merely means that one has a vested interest, or a pre-conceived view, which may not be inaccurate, unwise, or even wrong. There is a 'bias' nevertheless...
When I think about discernment, however, I personally view it as being equally considered, but without baggage.
Does that make sense?
@federica -- In my mind, it sort of makes sense....
But one of the lessons I learned in newspaper reporting, where the word "objectivity" was sometimes bandied about, is that tale-telling or news reporting by definition includes bias: Who chooses to tell the tale or make the argument? Who emphasizes 'x' but not 'y?' Who picks the words and how loaded are they? Twist and turn as much as anyone might, still it is "I" who make such choices and "I" am biased by upbringing, lifestyle, education or whatever.
The fact that a tale or argument is tinted by the mouth it comes out of is not a sufficient excuse for not trying to be 'objective' when it comes to serious issues. Put another way, just because you are bound to fail at 'objectivity' is not a good reason to pitch the entire notion out. Think of the number of times you have been forced to listen to someone who insists on "my way or the highway." It's tedious when it isn't downright dangerous. We try. We fail. We try some more and fail some more:Welcome to the human race.
I don't think either judgment or discernment is exempt from bias or habit or whatever you want to call it. The best I can figure is to make whatever judgment or discernment you choose and then do your damnedest to correct it where necessary.
For reference: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an08/an08.002.than.html
Note that "panna" is wisdom or insight, discernment seems to be a synonym.
Discernment is the word used to describe a wise new assessment of anything.
Judgement is the word used to describe a view tainted by previous attachments.
Often used by the spiritually savvy to defend or negate the worth of an observation.
I would say understanding is the better word for when talking about the 4NT's, and discernment for gaining wisdom by contemplating a teaching such as a sutta, I also like the word wise reflection.
Great question and answers.
We can be discerning without judgement but if we judge then discernment will not arise.
For example if I judge someone as wise, then I will treat cliches as profound. If however I discern the wisdom or insight independent of the source I have applied discernment.
....what...?
People who judge are not using discernment. A judgement in the Buddhist sense is very much like an opinion that one acts on. Just based on life experiences. All different sorts available, may or may not be wise or discerning.
People using discernment as a Buddhist quality know when to not make a judgement.
What in your judgement is unclear @federica?
well, this seems a bit odd...
No schytt Sherlock....
@federica.
Perhaps.
However discernment in any higher sense is not dependent on opinions, or being swayed by personal attachments, partiality or processing through ego. That is the difference; independence from personal involvement based on certainty. It has clarity, wisdom and insight as its base.
Maybe that can be discerned ...
I think judgement would be more like "they are bad because they have a temper". And discernment is "they have a temper and get angry when you ask them about x"
Not associating with fools,
Associating with the wise,
Honoring those worthy of honor;
This is the greatest blessing.
(Mangala Sutta [Sn 2.4] tr. John Kelly)
Thanks all for all your answer. I think discernment is the way of looking or knowing things without reactivity in the mind as well as judgement, it requires some sort of wisdom to discern, looking more deeply without "self or ego" in which it is present in judgement (mostly)
There is one question I've got from a dear friend of mine who said - "How do you know that the Four Noble Truth isn't just a delusion" And it is just probably something made up by Siddhartha. I gave it a real thought.
The Four Noble Truth in my own opinion can only be understood thru discernment, it gives way for the things to surface their true nature without mind reactivity and off course judgement. Truths are there whether Siddhartha became a Buddha or not. But it can only be seen and realized as it reveals itself by discernment. I don't want to arrive into the word "faith" because for me it is some sort of a "burden" believing or knowing things based on what others says or teach. I suppose this is what makes buddhism unique - that we are encouraged by the Buddha himself to know the Truth from our own way. That is more acceptable to me than believing blindly.
As for judgement, off course we can use that in everyday life using logic - right or wrong thing. It is ego or self based depending on how we filter things in our mind.
(It's a wonder any of us are here....!)
So the next question: how do we develop discernment?
Good question. Look forward to top tips. Personally I find when angry, conflicted or aggravated, discernment is impossible.
So calm is essential. How? Yes ... who guessed?
Cushion time!
http://daringtolivefully.com/tame-your-monkey-mind
@SpinyNorman So the next question: how do we develop discernment?
By cultivating wisdom I guess. Not sure of this.
And how do we cultivate wisdom?
It seems to begin with mindfulness.
See here for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Factors_of_Enlightenment
I think discernment is simply our freedom from our identities inertia.
Our success at not continually recreating our own identity
amounts to discernment's cultivation.
Could you give a couple of practical examples of what that means? You mean loosening up our habitual response patterns, something like that?
@SpinyNorman
Yes. Your example works for me
Some other examples of not continually recreating your own identity could be.....
Seeing that all arising, living and departing phenomena that we attempt to command is the only thing that keeps holding our identity together.
Offering all sense data the same cessation from sufferings cause that we seek.
Observing the info of eye, ear, nose, tongue, body & mind rather than directing them.
Resolving ones own karmic inheritances rather than continuing them.
Becoming more selfless than selfish.
Manifesting compassion, love & wisdom rather than greed, hate & delusion.
Ya know..the usual suspects.
I pity the fool
But wait...is that a top knot?
Apart from keeping away from Murdoch (A TEAM reference) ...
Not associating with fools,
Associating with the wise,
Honoring those worthy of honor;
This is the greatest blessing.
Fools are inner
the wise associations are inner
Go honour our better inner being
This will be a karmic 'blessing'.
I think the word judgement has been given a bad reputation. There is necessary judgment for daily living, such as what color is the sky today etc. Then there's judgment that is self driven, he/she/it is terrible etc.
Very true, @namarupa. One cannot live without making judgements. One cannot live wisely without making judgements.
That is perhaps 'perception'.
That is opinion based on judgement.
Spiritual discernment is not based on external factors but may relate to them. For example scientists will show how the 'blue sky' is a delusion. However one has to discern whether it is discerning to always bring this up. Judgements on people are similarly based on quick positions to deal with people or situations. The more discerning amongst us will base this on increasing tolerance, compassion and patience because we have discerned this to be more effective.
So in a sense with discernment we can choose to offer a judgement. However the purely judgemental may not have the more discerning option ...
Discernment is a term used repeatedly by the Buddha. It connotes maturity in practice, an ability to penetrate and personally experience the veracity of the dhamma in all its aspects. Judgment stems from discernment, that is ones judgment is based on ones ability to discern what is true or untrue, what is skillful or unskillful etc.
Perception and judgement are both easily clung to. Both are just working parts of the raft.