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no, it said it was too many characters. My girlfriend looked at what I wrote and said "Jeez, is it an essay?" Doh! I have always been long-winded, and I really got into what i was writing.
Thoughts on Solitude versus Loneliness I wrote this after reading some people’s expression of loneliness, and I can relate. So here’s some longwinded thoughts on the matter. On the one hand some say a certain amount of loneliness is good. It spurs inner reflection, contemplation and gives you moments of peace to think about who you are, what life is and where you are going. I'm very into the rational reasoning of Buddhism, and I always find it very healing. Yet, when I look up Buddhist advice for loneliness, reflections on the importance of solitude always pop up. I read them then still think… this doesn’t completely solve the problem. So then I think “What was life like for Buddhists, back when they wrote this advice”. All religions point to the importance of alone time to grow. Yet when these religions were strongest, communities were close. Our ancestors were surrounded by bustling family, town and neighbor life. Someone always needed your help or advice in those times. Maybe they even needed to borrow your tools, or they needed your labor. Inevitably… when sharing resources and space, conflict arose and many people were looking just for some peace and privacy. That’s when I think some monk said “Jeeze louise, everyone keeps interrupting my train of thought… I’m heading out into the woods for some solitude and to think a bit. Peace out. I’ll be back in a couple of weeks”.
However, I think in today's time we have real loneliness and not just solitude. Our extended families do not live with us, our kids move away. We screen our calls, and we watch other people’s lives on T.V. I think older religions didn’t have the issue of this kind of loneliness. A Thai monk I interviewed for a class assignment said he thinks people in modern times become too rushed, and close communities are disappearing. He expressed concern over his home-country and the rapid changes that are occurring. Also, in today's age when we have bad experiences we close our heart off to the world and nobody can stop us from doing so (maybe your mom will be concerned, but as I said about that cell phone screening...). As a society I feel we've become isolated in our own private pockets and we avoid being a "burden" on others.
I watched a movie about the lost boys of Sudan. They survived some pretty depressing situations, yet they were incredibly close to each other. They formed a strong community and freely talked of their trauma and memories. (I remember when a friend confided a traumatic incident with me… and I was the first person she ever told- in the darkness and privacy of my car- guarded against any outside intrusion). Well, some of the boys came to America as men, and they had a culture shock. They were told to split up when visiting stores because they intimidated Americans when they walked together in large groups. They also said that neighbors didn't really greet them and that they noticed that Americans did not talk to each other unless they already knew each other. He said "Why can't I just walk up to someone and talk with them?" One man hit his boiling point when he saw a woman crying in public. No one stopped to speak with her, so he bent down and asked her what was wrong. They had a simple logic. If someone is sad, we need to talk with them to cheer them up. We shouldn't ignore them. If we talk to them, we can make them happy again. It really opened my eyes and made me see that as a culture, we lack closeness. We are so private and we never want to burden others with our problems, and we are hesitant to involve ourselves in other's problems.
That's when I read something interesting in Buddhism. If you feel life lacks something. Then be what life is lacking. Kind of like the saying "Be the change you want to see in the world". I have been working on this myself. I have a tendency to withdraw from others, then I'm sad because I'm lonely. I'm fighting against my own cultural and family upbringing. Dad is a stone cold- reserved cowboy. Getting him to open up is like pulling teeth. I also find him withdrawn and closed to shows of affection (hugging him is like hugging a rattle-snake, he’ll die of embarrassment or bite you). Before I knew it I was following his stead. Locking myself up tight, being “stoic” and reserved. But I found myself depressed and unhappy. I'm trying now to be more open and involved with others. I gave an older woman a ride home after I saw she missed a bus. I actually hesitated next to her with my window down (feeling foolish), but when I saw her face look hopeful, I said "I can give you a ride." She had a grocery bag and a little walker. We ended up chatting about the bus system while I drove her to her house, and I enjoyed my bravery and the chat.
I try to do more things like that. When I come to work, I ask others what they're up too, even at the risk of being nosy. I'm now going to school with my partner, and my two sister-in laws. They have made my life very busy. So much conflict, drama and fighting, that I usually peer-mediate and I'm always talking with them about what they think, or what they want to do. Whenever I get lonely, I remind myself that it's ok to walk up to one of them in my house and say "I feel lonely today". Usually their response is to laugh a little, and say "Ok, wanna help me clean out my car? That's my plan for today." I do help them, and then I find myself enjoying it. We can learn a lot from other cultures if we look closely at how they enjoy life. Small communities are close knit, always talking with each other, in each other’s business and helping. If you want love, give love, and then you can't help but receive it back. You'll also feel better when you dare yourself to be more open, even with just passing strangers. I know that Buddhism places value on solitude. But solitude and loneliness are different, as is assertiveness versus aggression, and fasting versus starvation. There is a distinction between these things, and that distinction is found when you go too far on one end of the spectrum. I know that some Buddhists like to disappear for months in the mountains, and just meditate. Well good for them. I often disappeared into the woods as a kid. Stared at trees, ripped open logs, ate things I shouldn’t have. I still return to the woods on vacations, to just relax in nature and ponder the mysteries of life.
But Buddhism has never discredited the value of love and connection. The body needs to eat or you die. You need to piss or you die. You need to give and receive love, or you die. Even animals need love. I watched a National Geographic documentary on inmates in a solitary confinement facility. Without daily social contact for years… they developed paranoia, depression, anxiety, and aggression. The documentary compared this to rats that were caged alone. Soon the rats began to circle the edges of the cage and were fearful to venture towards the center. Evolutionarily speaking, we developed in social groups for safety and community help. When alone… our senses become sharper and we become more aware (good for short-term inner contemplation and meditation), but over time… this response is to keep us safe from harm when we are alone. That’s when paranoia, and anxiety and develop.
Long story short, if you find that life lacks compassion be compassionate. If it lacks humor, be a jokester. If you find yourself becoming lonely and disconnected, connect. The advice on solitude was written in a time when you couldn’t get a moments peace. I can relate to the problems those monks probably had living close together. Going to college with my girlfriend and her 2 sisters… yeah… try using the bathroom without someone knocking on the door. I find myself swept into the bustle of their lives and their fears and their concerns. This is a good thing. I think it’s much harder to actually practice Buddhism when you live in a crowded house, but that’s when the lessons I’ve learned from Buddhism become most important. I don’t know how many times I’ve had to tell myself “Right speech… right speech”. Even the girls are now telling each other off, “If your words don’t improve on silence, then don’t say anything” (the sisters fight like adolescents, lol). Then I have to say “Hey that’s my line!” I used to be so lonely, even in a crowd. But I’m working very hard at opening my heart even after experiencing hardships in life. I enjoy being involved in my house-mates life, listening and giving advice, encouraging. When I come to them and say “Today I feel kinda lonely”, they are more than happy to reciprocate.
I appreciate your words on loneliness hermitwin. I myself know it probably better than most monks and prisoners. I've been isolated without real friends a long time. Buddhism helps me cope with that a little bit, but like you I'm always looking for ways to reverse that and improve my situation some how. I talk to more strangers now, and get a lot more positive responses and I can see that even strangers talk to me more now that I have changed my ways of being reserved and stoic.
But at the same time it's very hard for me to make friends due to me living such a different life style from mostly everyone. I don't feel part of society. I relate more with homeless people, vagabonds, prisoners, gangsters, monks and those old school martial artists that go train all day alone. Those types of people I mentioned they're like me.
It's very hard for most regular people to relate to me even with all my effort to be compassionate and warm. So I have to find ways to cope with loneliness and maybe one day I'll actually make some real friends. I have a feeling when I have more money the friends will come.
Which it's unfortunate, but that seems like how it is in Los Angeles. I'm like a tiger in a park, or a whale in a pond. The rest of everyone else out here is shallow and superficial. Money seems to be everything, as I really can't seem to make good friends anymore when I don't have enough of it.
I tend to be naturally very direct, honest and even confrontational. But that's because there are too many fake people and cowards in L.A.. You been through all the shit I've been through and you'd be fearless and confrontational too when need be. But it's hard to find other people like that. Just about impossible.
I value it though, because I hate the fakeness that is associated with liars and cowards. I rather people remember me as the most loyal and the most honest even if they thought I was aggressive. Though that does make it harder for me to make real friends.
Maybe some will come eventually. I don't like censoring myself too much. And while Buddhism does help me mellow out, if I mellow out too much there will be nothing there left for me to give but fakeness.
@hermitwin thanks for loading it up for me. I'm new to this site, and I wasn't sure how to post such a long winded essay. It just said "characters too long". I didn't think to break it up into little parts lol. Someone said "We don't all have word" and I thought "oops".
Loneliness is longing for the company of others, it's a form of grasping (attachment). Are you familiar with the Rhinoceros Suttra? It's one of my favorites. www.hermitary.org/solitude/Rhinoceros.html
Serenity: ya gotta get out of LA! You mentioned elsewhere that you're a student? Can you transfer to a different UC campus? Santa Cruz is very cool, Berkeley and Davis as well. Davis is easier to get into, and very alternative-minded. Everyone rides bikes on the Davis campus, the whole town is geared to bikes. That would solve your problem of not having a car to pick up girls, because in Davis, few students have cars. it's the cool thing to bike. Best wishes.
If the kind of loneliness I describe is attachment... Then I assume hunger when one has gone without food is also attachment... (wait-don't answer... I think they're both attachment) I guess my beef when I wrote this was, too many people who are seriously depressed and lonely are told to stop desiring connection. I love Buddhism and all, but nothing is perfect. Not even Buddhism. I think Buddha would look at some of the people in our society and say "Well, stop being so withdrawn and private. Open your heart and start reaching out to others." I just feel that Buddha was a logical guy. I don't like when sutra's are quoted. It reminds me of bible thumpers who quote specific lines from the bible. I think "so?" I don't really care about following specific lines. Words are nice and all, but if they're not always relevant, then there are other answers. I admire the belief in Buddhism that we should be the change we want to see in the world, and I think we are growing further apart from each other in modern times (for goodness sakes, I'm on a discussion board lol).
@Mr Serenity I can understand you attempts to make friends. I live in a small town in Michigan and someone from the south said that Michiganders can be cold. I was like "Waaa? No we just mind our own business." Then she gave me specific examples and I realized "hmm we are pretty gaurded." I vacation near my uncle in Northern California and I noticed that people were progressive, opinionated and interesting... but it was hard to get close to people out there. Maybe because there is such a heavy population where my uncle is. But I suddenly realized what the southern girl meant. I just moved to this tiny town for school and seriously... we are up in each others bizz. The guy who drew my blood was my boss's son, and he tattled on me because I squealed and kicked like a baby. I answered the pizza guy knock without a bra on... and it was my patient's son who've I've spoken with on numerous occasions. You can't fart without someone across town knowing about it, but at the same time my neighbors have helped me with my car, and they are very genuine and caring people. I'm learning the benefits of being in a closer commnuity.
I don't want to be lonely, I never want to be alone again. However solitude is different in that it is sought out, because sometimes you need some time to yourself to think. I generally have no qualms about asking the people around me to understand this.
Thanks SO much for posting that! I'm divorced (going on 10 years) and live alone (well, me and two dogs, a cat, and a couple of goldfish). The piece is SO right on so many levels. Our society's obsession with privacy will be our undoing. Thanks again!
I tend to be naturally very direct, honest and even confrontational. But that's because there are too many fake people and cowards in L.A.. You been through all the shit I've been through and you'd be fearless and confrontational too when need be. But it's hard to find other people like that. Just about impossible.
I value it though, because I hate the fakeness that is associated with liars and cowards. I rather people remember me as the most loyal and the most honest even if they thought I was aggressive. Though that does make it harder for me to make real friends.
Maybe some will come eventually. I don't like censoring myself too much. And while Buddhism does help me mellow out, if I mellow out too much there will be nothing there left for me to give but fakeness.
If you enjoy being alone continue on this path. If you want to connect with people, even on a surface level ( with potential to make a real connection or friendship) try being fake . Pretty soon you will not know the difference anyway.
However, I think in today's time we have real loneliness and not just solitude. Our extended families do not live with us, our kids move away. We screen our calls, and we watch other people’s lives on T.V. I think older religions didn’t have the issue of this kind of loneliness. A Thai monk I interviewed for a class assignment said he thinks people in modern times become too rushed, and close communities are disappearing. He expressed concern over his home-country and the rapid changes that are occurring. Also, in today's age when we have bad experiences we close our heart off to the world and nobody can stop us from doing so (maybe your mom will be concerned, but as I said about that cell phone screening...). As a society I feel we've become isolated in our own private pockets and we avoid being a "burden" on others.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I'm all for reviving the forgotten practice of "going visiting" (this is still a way of life in Eastern Europe), where instead of talking to each other on the phone, friends go to each other's home to talk and visit over tea. human contact is so important. The thing I don't understand about North American customs (maybe this is true throughout much of Western Europe as well) is--why don't people chat with each other in public places; in line at the grocery or post office, waiting for the bus, anytime? In parts of California this is common, but everywhere else people seem closed off or guarded. Why? People get used to being guarded, and then, like Mr. Serenity (and others on this forum), they can't figure out how to chat innocuously to the opposite sex when they want to. It's dysfunctional.
If you want to connect with people, even on a surface level ( with potential to make a real connection or friendship) try being fake . Pretty soon you will not know the difference anyway.
I dunno about being fake, exactly. What you can do is plan casual greetings or conversation topics in your mind. have a list in your mind that you can pull up at any time. This isn't being fake, this is just utilizing some props. Eventually it'll come naturally.
I tend to be naturally very direct, honest and even confrontational. But that's because there are too many fake people and cowards in L.A.. You been through all the shit I've been through and you'd be fearless and confrontational too when need be. But it's hard to find other people like that. Just about impossible.
I value it though, because I hate the fakeness that is associated with liars and cowards. I rather people remember me as the most loyal and the most honest even if they thought I was aggressive. Though that does make it harder for me to make real friends.
Maybe some will come eventually. I don't like censoring myself too much. And while Buddhism does help me mellow out, if I mellow out too much there will be nothing there left for me to give but fakeness.
If you enjoy being alone continue on this path. If you want to connect with people, even on a surface level ( with potential to make a real connection or friendship) try being fake . Pretty soon you will not know the difference anyway.
I understand what you're saying to a degree. But this fakeness is cowardice. I notice a lot of homeless and gangsters approach me just to chat in a kind manner. And when they do they're *always real with me, with just about nothing held back. I do appreciate that. But the "regular" type of people are always the fake ones. I think it's because they haven't been through enough to humble and scare them enough. Humble them to a point where they realize its OK to be real.
I am a compassionate person, but at the same time I like to be real, I like for my personality to shine through. I don't like to be guessing peoples colors. I rather people know my own colors, even if they hate me for it. Because I am projecting what I'd like in return. Which is directness. I am direct, but never cold in a way that I think won't be beneficial.
I could be fake, and believe me I am to a degree. It depends with who I am talking to. I can usually tell how tough a person is, and depending on that depends how much of me they will actually get. But that fakeness doesn't roll with me. I believe in compassion, but I'm tired of people who are just constantly afraid to be themselves or to say what they really think.
YEAH, Mr.S! Personally, I think the not-ok-to-be-real is an Anglo-Germanic thing, mostly. Drives me crazy. But then again, there are rare pockets around the US where that isn't so much of an issue. The key is--finding them. But don't give in and be like those zombie types ("zombies" is what Russians who visit the US call Americans who are afraid to show their colors, a friend who regularly hosts Russians tells me).
Attachments are necessary though aren't they hermitwin. One needs attachment to food and water to survive, one needs attachment to money to sleep warm, and to eat proper. And one needs attachment to humans in order to socialize and maybe even build companionship.
Maybe it's a very advanced practice to go into the jungle, and meditate alone for 6 months. But were they really alone? Maybe the feat of gathering food, and observing the ever changing jungle everyday nourished their souls. Maybe in a beautiful setting of nature like that being alone was much more tolerable and loneliness turned into solitude.
There are prisoners who get thrown into solitary because a police officer tried to strike them because they made a sarcastic remark that pissed off the officer. The officer tried to beat them, and they defended themselves and struck down the officer and then got put into solitary confinement for months due to them now being seen as a threat. That is the type of loneliness that deteriorates the human mind and creates schizophrenia as a coping mechanism. The worse punishment. This is very commonly seen in American prisons. That is why Julian Assange fled to the U.K. or wherever he is.
So I do believe we need to socialize. It is attachment, but perhaps a necessary one.
I don't think it's as simple as that hermitwin. With those two sentences it seems so simple, but it's not. A few words aren't always absolute. Everyone has different truths. I will never be an ordinary man, no matter what I do. Because the majority of my life was so different from ordinary people. If I can adapt to be able to obtain what is considered an ordinary life that be nice, but my mind and my personality will never be ordinary.
I probably could get great fame and wisdom if I became a monk like Ajahn Chah. But it is harder for me (almost seemingly impossible) to be successful in a money driven society and also be successful with a woman. But despite my difficulties with that, that is what I want. It's worth more to me than giving up everything and pursuing a life as a monk. To me that be a lot easier, but it would mean I was giving up my dream just because it was too hard.
I sincerely wish you all the best whichever path you choose. 'But it is harder for me (almost seemingly impossible) to be successful in a money driven society' I dont agree with this statement.The fact that you came to a Buddhist forum means you have some affinity with Buddhist ideals. Only time will tell if you will change. In the end, we all want happiness, not fame fortune or...
I don't mean to argue with you just for the hell of it hermitwin. But the reason why I sincerely believe it's easier to be a successful monk rather than to be successful living independently in Los Angeles is because to be a monk you're already surrounded with compassionate people. People who want to support you and teach you and help you become wiser, they also offer robes to you and probably a place to sleep. There is structure and support there, you can just follow the system everyday and become wiser. It's basically like getting therapy all the time and just following a few orders when needed, but you're not even worrying about paying the bills.
In L.A. we're the homeless capital of the world. The majority here don't care if you're sleeping on the street. That's why we're the homeless capital of the world. They don't care if you're looking for work and can't find it. You are either helped a lot by your parents and your schools to make a foundation and make sure you're successful, or you have to figure it out all on your own like me.
So it sounds great and simple to talk about the great sounding wisdom from all these two line sutras and stuff, but I'm talking about the reality of making a living independently when you don't have much of a foundation to start with. To do this it means you have money, or you have to go to school for many years, or something else I haven't figured out yet. Money fundamentally gives you more friends, and a far better quality of life, at least where I am from.
And I by no means do I have the money and resources to just choose to move away from this superficial city of L.A.. It's either I live with my parents while trying to figure out how to make something of myself or I will be homeless.
I'm only lonely if I direct my attention to thinking about the fact that I'm alone. Most of my life I've been a "lone wolf", not not-wanting a relationship, but closer to not needing one; not having any major drive to "hook up". That doesn't mean I don't like sex or anything, but usually when I'd think about a relationship the thoughts would concern finding a girl that would be a really good friend and it would eventually lead to marriage. That's that only real kind of relationship this mind ever craved for, and only (again) if that's what I choose to think about.
LA, I have been there only once, is also a place where weird people live. I am sure there are some kind Buddhists around.
That is so funny. The first time I told my mom that I was going to visit a zen Buddhist temple in downtown, more than 2 years ago. The first thing she said was. "Ok, just beware of the weirdos and drug addicts probably hanging around there."
Attachments are necessary though aren't they hermitwin. One needs attachment to food and water to survive, one needs attachment to money to sleep warm, and to eat proper. And one needs attachment to humans in order to socialize and maybe even build companionship.
So I do believe we need to socialize. It is attachment, but perhaps a necessary one.
I don't mean to be picky, but food, water, sleep, aren't attachments (unless one becomes fixated on them), they're needs. Money doesn't need to be an attachment, either, it's all in your attitude towards it. I agree that socializing is important for mental health, but that's different from pining for a significant other.
Mr. S, I really respect everything you're doing; you've managed to get yourself on the road to completing a college education, even if it means living with your parents (probably not uncommon these days, don't feel bad about it, it's a smart move), and you clearly know who you are, have strong values, and stand by them. Keep on keepin' on--with your determination and integrity, I think you'll really make it. In the meantime, be patient (easier said than done, I know).
Relationships are good because they challenge us to hold to true to what we believe. They make us walk the talk. When I went through my loner phase, I spurned all connection that wasn't on a deep level. At the time I thought I was so "true to myself" and "honest". I kept only a couple of close friends and pretty much kept to myself. At the time I thought "I'm so good at this Buddhist thing". My family is kind of disconnected from each other and dysfunctional so I thought I was keeping myself safe too. Unfortunately I was living an easy life, and my perception of myself was never challenged. I was also incredibly lonely. Meeting my girlfriend four years ago, and being thrown into a house with 2 additional strangers really shook me up. I had to learn how to mediate and deal with people who challenged me. "Jess could we please shut the tv off when we're not watching it." "No, I've always liked background noise." This tv fight turned into world war III. I even moved it into the garage, until we compromised and Jess put it in her room. I found out that I was not as resilient as I thought. Someone could frustrate and anger me. I also found out that I was not immune to criticism. It's one thing when a stranger doesn't like your haircut, but when my girlfriend hated it Let's just say I've learned that I'm not as tough as I thought I was. However, these new connections really helped me to develop further, and I had to adjust and figure out that Buddhism in practice is harder when you live an everyday average life. I'm actually on here because I'm the only Buddhist I know (would love to hear what other Buddhist deal with and their challenges). I live in a small VERY christian community, but I've learned how Christianity and Buddhism connect. Sometimes I'd like a monk to maybe switch places with me and deal with the challenges of busy house, college, work, and four dogs (the dogs would break anyone-lol). I don't know what would be more enriching than a life that uses challenges to force you to look at who you are.
You're lucky to even have that type of drama Malachy. I enjoy drama like that. Because I never get it. In real life people just don't argue with me period, because they know I love confrontations lol. And I am very calm when I argue too, but I tend to always win even without trying, just because I am rational and I almost never get angry. I enjoy it because I don't get to really converse with people. So I'll take even the arguing. Then they call me arrogant lol.
I really would love connections, but lately I just don't seem to get them. So cherish your drama with people. I rarely even get that drama anymore. It's better to have that drama than be more or less completely alone like me. I had people I thought were my friends, but when shit hits the fan they don't really seem to even want to hear about it. So if you ask me they aren't real friends. So I have no real friends. At least not in L.A.. I have some people who seem like good friends other places. Like in New York my attitude seems to get along with people from there.
And it's not like I can go on craigslist and look for real friends from L.A., believe me I have. Prostitutes give me offers when I do that. And I'm thinking about it, they look good. But I haven't went for it.
@Mr Serenity They actually taught me to be humble. I invest a lot into my opinions because I like to think. Then I run the danger of "I am made of my thoughts, opinions, and perspectives". So when challenged I suddenly enter a zone where I am defending "me", falsely thinking "I am my thoughts, you criticize my standpoints, you criticize me". The I have to stop and realize that other people do not want the conflict of defending their positions, because they probably feel hurt when I go out of my way to try to make them see it my way. People who seek truth, also run the edge of arrogance, because we have a tendency to invest too much into our thoughts. Being humanitarian means I'm a bit nosy, and want to "help". Sometimes I must beware of telling a "hurtful truth". I'm trying to tone myself down. Learn to humble myself, and be aware of bluntness. Now I gently manipulate others when I want them to better themselves (sounds bad I know). For instance, my dad has become much nicer on the phone "he's the king of pessism", when he becomes negative I turn to humor, or excuse myself off the phone. Telling him straight out "You're negative because -blah- and it's ruining your life and now your kids can't stand to talk to you. In fact you kill my soul.. lil'bit.. every time we talk". <--- yep, might be true but it doesn't fix anything when I say it like this. So it's 1 part maturity, and 1 part modesty (especially if you are humorous or witty like me... I can really cut someone up, thinking I'm being funny before I realize too late that I'm being a jerk). I also like confrontation because it challenges me. I love resolving problems from "the dog has learned to jump on guests" to, "I must solve this huge family argument between my uncle-in-law and my mother-in-law". However my intention in an argument should be "Do what is best for everyone" instead of "defend myself to the death".
I'm the same way Malachy, where I like confrontation because I like solving problems and getting to the truth. This of course can be seen as arrogance. I am always looking to be more humble too. But then I hear that women like confident men. So they tell me to be confident, yet they tell me I'm arrogant, what the hell lol. That's why I work my ass off at the gym, maybe my body will make up for my personality that tends to not be able to connect much with people. Then maybe that will get me laid.
Because obviously it's going to be easier for me to get laid than get another girl who is willing to call herself my girlfriend.
Haha, Mr. Serenity, I generally avoid confrontations myself, but I have a few friends who will start to joke around while arguing, and I simply cannot resist. We'll get loud and in each others faces and make comments that have absolutely nothing to do with the situation, but its all a part of a game really. I'll debate someone on a topic, but I hate flat-out arguing since it is usually not needed.
@Mr Serenity As a lesbian... I feel I have a special insight into the minds of women, lol. If you're seeking to get laid, you will not attract girlfriend material, . My best guy friend is always trying to get laid after a failed relationship, almost like he's trying to dumb-down connection with the opposite sex. But it's never made him happy, in fact it makes him bitter. Women and men are attracted to someone who can handle life and won't be a burden, and this often quickly translates to confidence. However, I don't like know-it-alls, and I also run the risk of becoming one if I don't keep myself in check. I've learned... nobody likes a know-it-all, and physical attraction is only a minor component of a relationship. If you are really seeking companionship, then be open, compassionate, and amusing. Widen your circle of friends and get out more so you are exposed. But don't resort to just body-building. Us girls do this too. Haven't you ever seen the girl who tries really hard to be thin, always wear the best clothes and makeup and seek to attract guys through sexuality alone. I see em everyday, trying too hard at the bar or club, and it's sad to see how frustrated they get, and how much effort they are applying.
I'm only lonely if I direct my attention to thinking about the fact that I'm alone. Most of my life I've been a "lone wolf", not not-wanting a relationship, but closer to not needing one; not having any major drive to "hook up". That doesn't mean I don't like sex or anything, but usually when I'd think about a relationship the thoughts would concern finding a girl that would be a really good friend and it would eventually lead to marriage. That's that only real kind of relationship this mind ever craved for, and only (again) if that's what I choose to think about.
But then I hear that women like confident men. So they tell me to be confident, yet they tell me I'm arrogant, what the hell lol.
There's a Middle Way: confident, but not over-confident. Men like confident women too, few men like timid, mousy wall-flowers. It's confidence, energy, dynamism that is attractive in general, it's not about men or women. Warmth, friendliness, thoughtfulness and a smile are attractive on anyone.
@Compassionate_warrior Well said! Middle-way, all the way, lol! My gf is like a mother bear, confident and sure of her decisions. Always the leader. But deep down she needs to be reassured and heard. Only those that really know her, know that she is not 100% confident. She thought I was adaptive, sure of myself, and someone who goes with the flow, but in reality I'm only sure of myself because I'm willing to deal with the bad consequences. What I really want is someone to tell me what's the best course of action so I can be backed up if it goes wrong. My guy friend is a big guy, very blunt and sure of himself, but when you get close to him you find that he's a thinker and he needs someone who believes in him. Most confident types are usually marshmallows on the inside. That's why I'm always telling him to stop looking for just sex, he always winds up acting tough like he doesn't care, but he falls in love and gets hurt (he fishes for girls from the wrong ponds and with the wrong bait).
@Mr Serenity As a lesbian... I feel I have a special insight into the minds of women, lol. If you're seeking to get laid, you will not attract girlfriend material, . My best guy friend is always trying to get laid after a failed relationship, almost like he's trying to dumb-down connection with the opposite sex. But it's never made him happy, in fact it makes him bitter. Women and men are attracted to someone who can handle life and won't be a burden, and this often quickly translates to confidence. However, I don't like know-it-alls, and I also run the risk of becoming one if I don't keep myself in check. I've learned... nobody likes a know-it-all, and physical attraction is only a minor component of a relationship. If you are really seeking companionship, then be open, compassionate, and amusing. Widen your circle of friends and get out more so you are exposed. But don't resort to just body-building. Us girls do this too. Haven't you ever seen the girl who tries really hard to be thin, always wear the best clothes and makeup and seek to attract guys through sexuality alone. I see em everyday, trying too hard at the bar or club, and it's sad to see how frustrated they get, and how much effort they are applying.
Guys are so easy Malachy. There is no reason for those girls who are struggling to struggle. I can help any woman get a man easily. I can't say the same about getting a woman. They seem so complicated. But if I had a new mustang, my own apartment and perfect teeth (I'm working on all that) then I bet I'd make a baby within 3 months. I appreciate the tips though. I wish I could say that the right personality alone and decent looks is enough, but maybe in my city it isn't.
Comments
...not everyone uses Word.
cann't you just copy the text?
My girlfriend looked at what I wrote and said "Jeez, is it an essay?" Doh! I have always been long-winded, and I really got into what i was writing.
I wrote this after reading some people’s expression of loneliness, and I can relate. So here’s some longwinded thoughts on the matter.
On the one hand some say a certain amount of loneliness is good. It spurs inner reflection, contemplation and gives you moments of peace to think about who you are, what life is and where you are going. I'm very into the rational reasoning of Buddhism, and I always find it very healing. Yet, when I look up Buddhist advice for loneliness, reflections on the importance of solitude always pop up. I read them then still think… this doesn’t completely solve the problem. So then I think “What was life like for Buddhists, back when they wrote this advice”. All religions point to the importance of alone time to grow. Yet when these religions were strongest, communities were close. Our ancestors were surrounded by bustling family, town and neighbor life. Someone always needed your help or advice in those times. Maybe they even needed to borrow your tools, or they needed your labor. Inevitably… when sharing resources and space, conflict arose and many people were looking just for some peace and privacy. That’s when I think some monk said “Jeeze louise, everyone keeps interrupting my train of thought… I’m heading out into the woods for some solitude and to think a bit. Peace out. I’ll be back in a couple of weeks”.
It really opened my eyes and made me see that as a culture, we lack closeness. We are so private and we never want to burden others with our problems, and we are hesitant to involve ourselves in other's problems.
We can learn a lot from other cultures if we look closely at how they enjoy life. Small communities are close knit, always talking with each other, in each other’s business and helping. If you want love, give love, and then you can't help but receive it back. You'll also feel better when you dare yourself to be more open, even with just passing strangers.
I know that Buddhism places value on solitude. But solitude and loneliness are different, as is assertiveness versus aggression, and fasting versus starvation. There is a distinction between these things, and that distinction is found when you go too far on one end of the spectrum. I know that some Buddhists like to disappear for months in the mountains, and just meditate. Well good for them. I often disappeared into the woods as a kid. Stared at trees, ripped open logs, ate things I shouldn’t have. I still return to the woods on vacations, to just relax in nature and ponder the mysteries of life.
But at the same time it's very hard for me to make friends due to me living such a different life style from mostly everyone. I don't feel part of society. I relate more with homeless people, vagabonds, prisoners, gangsters, monks and those old school martial artists that go train all day alone. Those types of people I mentioned they're like me.
It's very hard for most regular people to relate to me even with all my effort to be compassionate and warm. So I have to find ways to cope with loneliness and maybe one day I'll actually make some real friends. I have a feeling when I have more money the friends will come.
Which it's unfortunate, but that seems like how it is in Los Angeles. I'm like a tiger in a park, or a whale in a pond. The rest of everyone else out here is shallow and superficial. Money seems to be everything, as I really can't seem to make good friends anymore when I don't have enough of it.
I value it though, because I hate the fakeness that is associated with liars and cowards. I rather people remember me as the most loyal and the most honest even if they thought I was aggressive. Though that does make it harder for me to make real friends.
Maybe some will come eventually. I don't like censoring myself too much. And while Buddhism does help me mellow out, if I mellow out too much there will be nothing there left for me to give but fakeness.
Serenity: ya gotta get out of LA! You mentioned elsewhere that you're a student? Can you transfer to a different UC campus? Santa Cruz is very cool, Berkeley and Davis as well. Davis is easier to get into, and very alternative-minded. Everyone rides bikes on the Davis campus, the whole town is geared to bikes. That would solve your problem of not having a car to pick up girls, because in Davis, few students have cars. it's the cool thing to bike. Best wishes.
Then I assume hunger when one has gone without food is also attachment...
(wait-don't answer... I think they're both attachment)
I guess my beef when I wrote this was, too many people who are seriously depressed and lonely are told to stop desiring connection. I love Buddhism and all, but nothing is perfect. Not even Buddhism. I think Buddha would look at some of the people in our society and say "Well, stop being so withdrawn and private. Open your heart and start reaching out to others." I just feel that Buddha was a logical guy.
I don't like when sutra's are quoted. It reminds me of bible thumpers who quote specific lines from the bible. I think "so?" I don't really care about following specific lines. Words are nice and all, but if they're not always relevant, then there are other answers. I admire the belief in Buddhism that we should be the change we want to see in the world, and I think we are growing further apart from each other in modern times (for goodness sakes, I'm on a discussion board lol).
I can understand you attempts to make friends. I live in a small town in Michigan and someone from the south said that Michiganders can be cold. I was like "Waaa? No we just mind our own business." Then she gave me specific examples and I realized "hmm we are pretty gaurded."
I vacation near my uncle in Northern California and I noticed that people were progressive, opinionated and interesting... but it was hard to get close to people out there. Maybe because there is such a heavy population where my uncle is. But I suddenly realized what the southern girl meant.
I just moved to this tiny town for school and seriously... we are up in each others bizz. The guy who drew my blood was my boss's son, and he tattled on me because I squealed and kicked like a baby. I answered the pizza guy knock without a bra on... and it was my patient's son who've I've spoken with on numerous occasions. You can't fart without someone across town knowing about it, but at the same time my neighbors have helped me with my car, and they are very genuine and caring people. I'm learning the benefits of being in a closer commnuity.
Thanks SO much for posting that! I'm divorced (going on 10 years) and live alone (well, me and two dogs, a cat, and a couple of goldfish). The piece is SO right on so many levels. Our society's obsession with privacy will be our undoing. Thanks again!
If you want to connect with people, even on a surface level ( with potential to make a real connection or friendship) try being fake . Pretty soon you will not know the difference anyway.
I understand what you're saying to a degree. But this fakeness is cowardice. I notice a lot of homeless and gangsters approach me just to chat in a kind manner. And when they do they're *always real with me, with just about nothing held back. I do appreciate that. But the "regular" type of people are always the fake ones. I think it's because they haven't been through enough to humble and scare them enough. Humble them to a point where they realize its OK to be real.
I am a compassionate person, but at the same time I like to be real, I like for my personality to shine through. I don't like to be guessing peoples colors. I rather people know my own colors, even if they hate me for it. Because I am projecting what I'd like in return. Which is directness. I am direct, but never cold in a way that I think won't be beneficial.
I could be fake, and believe me I am to a degree. It depends with who I am talking to. I can usually tell how tough a person is, and depending on that depends how much of me they will actually get. But that fakeness doesn't roll with me. I believe in compassion, but I'm tired of people who are just constantly afraid to be themselves or to say what they really think.
Sure, scientists say we are social animals.
But, it is a form of attachment.
Maybe it's a very advanced practice to go into the jungle, and meditate alone for 6 months. But were they really alone? Maybe the feat of gathering food, and observing the ever changing jungle everyday nourished their souls. Maybe in a beautiful setting of nature like that being alone was much more tolerable and loneliness turned into solitude.
There are prisoners who get thrown into solitary because a police officer tried to strike them because they made a sarcastic remark that pissed off the officer. The officer tried to beat them, and they defended themselves and struck down the officer and then got put into solitary confinement for months due to them now being seen as a threat. That is the type of loneliness that deteriorates the human mind and creates schizophrenia as a coping mechanism. The worse punishment. This is very commonly seen in American prisons. That is why Julian Assange fled to the U.K. or wherever he is.
So I do believe we need to socialize. It is attachment, but perhaps a necessary one.
Is that what you want?
These are not my words but of Laozi.
You do what you think is best for you.
I dont care what people think of me. I try.
I dont judge you, I dont know you.
people did.
'But it is harder for me (almost seemingly impossible) to be successful in a money driven society'
I dont agree with this statement.The fact that you came to a Buddhist forum means you have some
affinity with Buddhist ideals.
Only time will tell if you will change.
In the end, we all want happiness, not fame fortune or...
So, I wish you great happiness.
In L.A. we're the homeless capital of the world. The majority here don't care if you're sleeping on the street. That's why we're the homeless capital of the world. They don't care if you're looking for work and can't find it. You are either helped a lot by your parents and your schools to make a foundation and make sure you're successful, or you have to figure it out all on your own like me.
So it sounds great and simple to talk about the great sounding wisdom from all these two line sutras and stuff, but I'm talking about the reality of making a living independently when you don't have much of a foundation to start with. To do this it means you have money, or you have to go to school for many years, or something else I haven't figured out yet. Money fundamentally gives you more friends, and a far better quality of life, at least where I am from.
And I by no means do I have the money and resources to just choose to move away from this superficial city of L.A.. It's either I live with my parents while trying to figure out how to make something of myself or I will be homeless.
Otherwise, I'm good all by myself.
But I really wish you the best.
LA, I have been there only once, is also a place where weird people live.
I am sure there are some kind Buddhists around.
I hope you achieve what you aim for.
I have passed the stage where I seek fame , fortune, etc.
Maybe I am lucky that I can.
I dont have hungry mouths waiting for me to feed.
That goes for everyone actually.
Sorry @hermitwin, I did the same thing.
And with respect, ditto to Cloud's request.
"Ok, just beware of the weirdos and drug addicts probably hanging around there."
Mr. S, I really respect everything you're doing; you've managed to get yourself on the road to completing a college education, even if it means living with your parents (probably not uncommon these days, don't feel bad about it, it's a smart move), and you clearly know who you are, have strong values, and stand by them. Keep on keepin' on--with your determination and integrity, I think you'll really make it. In the meantime, be patient (easier said than done, I know).
Meeting my girlfriend four years ago, and being thrown into a house with 2 additional strangers really shook me up. I had to learn how to mediate and deal with people who challenged me.
"Jess could we please shut the tv off when we're not watching it."
"No, I've always liked background noise."
This tv fight turned into world war III. I even moved it into the garage, until we compromised and Jess put it in her room. I found out that I was not as resilient as I thought. Someone could frustrate and anger me. I also found out that I was not immune to criticism. It's one thing when a stranger doesn't like your haircut, but when my girlfriend hated it
However, these new connections really helped me to develop further, and I had to adjust and figure out that Buddhism in practice is harder when you live an everyday average life.
I'm actually on here because I'm the only Buddhist I know (would love to hear what other Buddhist deal with and their challenges). I live in a small VERY christian community, but I've learned how Christianity and Buddhism connect. Sometimes I'd like a monk to maybe switch places with me and deal with the challenges of busy house, college, work, and four dogs (the dogs would break anyone-lol). I don't know what would be more enriching than a life that uses challenges to force you to look at who you are.
I really would love connections, but lately I just don't seem to get them. So cherish your drama with people. I rarely even get that drama anymore. It's better to have that drama than be more or less completely alone like me. I had people I thought were my friends, but when shit hits the fan they don't really seem to even want to hear about it. So if you ask me they aren't real friends. So I have no real friends. At least not in L.A.. I have some people who seem like good friends other places. Like in New York my attitude seems to get along with people from there.
And it's not like I can go on craigslist and look for real friends from L.A., believe me I have. Prostitutes give me offers when I do that. And I'm thinking about it, they look good. But I haven't went for it.
I also like confrontation because it challenges me. I love resolving problems from "the dog has learned to jump on guests" to, "I must solve this huge family argument between my uncle-in-law and my mother-in-law". However my intention in an argument should be "Do what is best for everyone" instead of "defend myself to the death".
Because obviously it's going to be easier for me to get laid than get another girl who is willing to call herself my girlfriend.
People are amazing and they should be cherished
Well said! Middle-way, all the way, lol! My gf is like a mother bear, confident and sure of her decisions. Always the leader. But deep down she needs to be reassured and heard. Only those that really know her, know that she is not 100% confident. She thought I was adaptive, sure of myself, and someone who goes with the flow, but in reality I'm only sure of myself because I'm willing to deal with the bad consequences. What I really want is someone to tell me what's the best course of action so I can be backed up if it goes wrong. My guy friend is a big guy, very blunt and sure of himself, but when you get close to him you find that he's a thinker and he needs someone who believes in him. Most confident types are usually marshmallows on the inside. That's why I'm always telling him to stop looking for just sex, he always winds up acting tough like he doesn't care, but he falls in love and gets hurt (he fishes for girls from the wrong ponds and with the wrong bait).
Guys are so easy Malachy. There is no reason for those girls who are struggling to struggle. I can help any woman get a man easily. I can't say the same about getting a woman. They seem so complicated. But if I had a new mustang, my own apartment and perfect teeth (I'm working on all that) then I bet I'd make a baby within 3 months. I appreciate the tips though. I wish I could say that the right personality alone and decent looks is enough, but maybe in my city it isn't.