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Why do people become monks/nuns?
hermitwin
Veteran
Why do some people remain as a monk for decades?
Why do some monks disrobe?
Why do some monks disrobe?
0
Comments
There was once a monk (Nanavira) that was so superstitious, he believed he was a stream-enterer and when he got sick, he decided to commit suicide rather than return to the West for medical care. He believed if he disrobed & returned to the West, his next rebirth would be less favourable
When I was young, I spent one year in Buddhadasa's monastery. When I returned home, I visited the monastery of a famous rebirther, namely, Kantipalo. In public, Kantipalo made a snide remark in my honor because I stayed in famous non-rebirther Buddhadasa's monastery.
But when Kantipalo disrobed after many decades as a monk, he made a big noise criticising the monastic system but, surprisingly, praised Buddhadasa. Big change of face. Kantipalo then studied Dzogchen.
Similarly, Buddhadasa's translator Santikaro was a monk for around 20 years. After Buddhadasa passed away, Santikaro's actitivies as a monk became more and more worldly until he disrobed, again with much noise, criticising the monastic system, before taking refuge in the warmth of a woman.
Similarly, a number of senior Western Ajahn Chah monks disrobed, when and soon after Ajahn Chah entered into dementia and then died. This included a monk & nun who eloped together.
:coffee:
'They have attained the fruit' ie they get it.
Not referring to nirvana.
But why you are a monk. You dont have to be.
You observing positive changes in yourself &
believe you are on the right path.
I dont have problems with monks who disrobe.
Why not? If you are not getting anywhere, try sth else.
You can read clearly from this link ;http://metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/1Digha-Nikaya/Digha1/02-samannaphala-e2.html
Digha Nikaya [COLLECTION OF LONG DIALOGUES.],Samaññaphala Sutta[The Fruits of the Contemplative Life ] , The Second Visible Fruit of the Contemplative Life
In Rajagaha capital, in Jivaka Komarabhacca's mango grove , Buddha said to King Ajàtasattu of Magadha, the son of Queen Videha ; '' ........................
"Yes, it is, great king. But first, with regard to that, I will ask you a counter-question. Answer however you please. Suppose there were a man of yours: a farmer, a householder, a taxpayer swelling the royal treasury. The thought would occur to him: 'Isn't it amazing? Isn't it astounding? -- the destination, the results, of meritorious deeds! For this King Ajàtasattu is a human being, and I, too, am a human being, yet King Ajàtasattu enjoys himself supplied and replete with the five strands of sensual pleasure -- like a deity, as it were -- while I am a farmer, a householder, a taxpayer swelling the royal treasury. I, too, should do meritorious deeds. What if I were to shave off my hair and beard, put on the ochre robes, and go forth from the household life into homelessness?'
"So after some time he abandons his mass of wealth, large or small; leaves his circle of relatives, large or small; shaves off his hair and beard, puts on the ochre robes, and goes forth from the household life into homelessness. Having thus gone forth he lives restrained in body, speech, and mind, content with the simplest food and shelter, delighting in solitude. Then suppose one of your men were to inform you: 'You should know, your majesty, that that man of yours -- the farmer, the householder, the taxpayer swelling the royal treasury...has gone forth from the household life into homelessness...content with the simplest food and shelter, delighting in solitude.' Would you, thus informed, say, 'Bring that man back to me. Make him again be a farmer, a householder, a taxpayer swelling the royal treasury!'?"
"Not at all, venerable sir. Rather, I am the one who should bow down to him, rise up out of respect for him, invite him to a seat, invite him to accept gifts of robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicinal requisites for the sick. And I would provide him with righteous safety, defense, and protection."
"So what do you think, great king. With that being the case, is there a visible fruit of the contemplative life, or is there not?"
"Yes, venerable sir. With that being the case, there certainly is a visible fruit of the contemplative life."
Interestingly, while a monk can't be married, it is possible for a temporary monk to be so. For example, a Thai teacher friend of mine and his wife were unable to have children for many years. Then, finally, they had a daughter. The husband became a monk for 3 months -- while being married -- to give thanks for being blessed with a child.
It was that family that first introduced me to Thai Buddhism from a personal perspective on that first year I visited (1987). They took me sightseeing up on Doi Suthep (the huge mountain in the shadow of which Chiang Mai sits). There was nothing pushy about it, they just said they would show me what "real Thai people" do at temple, and they explained each thing that they did. I visited them nearly every summer for about 18 years.
Just like you and me, they really don’t know why they do what they do.
The brain makes decisions and at times it is kind enough to inform us (make it conscious).
We fabricate a story about it and come up with good reasons for what we did and how this was such a very good decision of ours.
I assume you're asking about traditions in which people enter voluntarily. In some traditions, children are given away to the monastery or nunnery, but that's a different ball of wax.
Are you sure?
after many years as a monk decides to disrobe
& get married.
Does it mean he doesnt think he can reach nirvana
& has given up?
Or he no longer believes in the Buddhist path
to enlightenment?
Whether Jagaro, Santikaro or Stephen Batchelor, the reason is the same, namely:
1. no samadhi
2. no bliss
3. no extinguishing of sexual lust
How many of us posting on here can let go of our addictions and poisons and strive to save all sentient beings? Jeez, most of us can't even stop being arrogant just because we "know" Buddhism.
But if he felt Zen and Tibetan Buddhism were dogmatic, he could have joined the Forest Sangha as a monk or remained a celibate practitioner.
The point is they disrobed to get it on.
think there is no need to know what the Buddha taught .Nowadays there are many kinds
of buddhisms in The world . Because Some of them were extracting or adding to discourses of the Buddha according to their ideas ;they may be scientists or philosophers or governments like kings or others .But all discourses of Buddha is very complete and link .So if they want to change one sentence in pitika they must change another one sentence or many , in other discourses (Sūtra Piṭaka ), in monastic rules(Vinaya)and in special Dhamma (Abhidharma).Dhamma is very difficult to know if we have no right teacher.Because when prince Siddhartha become Buddha , he thought ; Dhamma I have got is very difficult to teach people ,because they are very
happy in their wrong desires , if I teach them I will be only tired ,but they cannot get . In Sutta Pitaka , Digha Nikàya [COLLECTION OF LONG DIALOGUES.] , Mahàpadàna Sutta . here you can read this sutta only in Pali and Sinhala .http://metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/1Digha-Nikaya/index.html
Forgive my spelling and english usage .
Thanks for all your comments, just as a small note, Ajahn Chah never disrobed and was and is regarded as a lineage teacher in the Thai Forest school, as I understand it.
_/\_
Some people say it's impossible to practice Dhamma as a layperson. Consider, which group is larger, monks or laypeople? There are far more laypeople. Now if only the monks practice and laypeople don't, then that means there's going to be a lot of confusion. This is wrong understanding. "I can't become a monk..." Becoming a monk isn't the point! Being a monk doesn't mean anything if you don't practice. If you really understand the practice of dhamma then no matter what position or profession you hold in life, be it a teacher, doctor, civil servant or whatever, you can practice the Dhamma every minute of the day.
To think you can't practice as a layman is to lose track of the path completely. Why is it people can find the incentive to do other things? If they feel they are lacking something they make an effort to obtain it. If there is sufficient desire people can do anything. some say, "I haven't got time to practice the Dhamma." I say, "Then how come you've got time to breathe?" Breathing is vital to people's lives. If they saw Dhamma practice as vital to their lives they would see it as important as their breathing.
Luang Por Chah
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/chah/living.html#living
In 1977, Ajahn Chah was invited to visit Britain by the English Sangha Trust, a charity with the aim of establishing a locally-resident Buddhist Sangha. He took Venerable Sumedho and Venerable Khemadhammo along, and seeing the serious interest there, left them in London at the Hampstead Vihara (with two of his other Western disciples who were then visiting Europe). He returned to Britain in 1979, at which time the monks were leaving London to begin Chithurst Buddhist Monastery in Sussex. He then went on to America and Canada to visit and teach. After this trip, and again in 1981, Ajahn Chah spent the 'Rains' away from Wat Pah Pong, since his health was failing due to the debilitating effects of diabetes. As his illness worsened, he would use his body as a teaching, a living example of the impermanence of all things. He constantly reminded people to endeavor to find a true refuge within themselves, since he would not be able to teach for very much longer. Before the end of the 'Rains' of 1981, he was taken to Bangkok for an operation; it, however, did little to improve his condition. Within a few months he stopped talking, and gradually he lost control of his limbs until he was virtually paralyzed and bed-ridden. From then on, he was diligently and lovingly nursed and attended by devoted disciples, grateful for the occasion to offer service to the teacher who so patiently and compassionately showed the Way to so many.
__________
Also available here are recollections of their teacher by some of his senior Western students
http://www.amaravati.org/abmnew/index.php/teachings/eArticles/
a monk. or at least live like a monk.
many people find a million reasons why they
cant be a monk.
Some wants to be a monk but still have a family.
I dont buy all that. Its attachment. Be honest enough to
at least admit that.
What is joy to a wise man is suffering to the average joe
and vice versa.
The idea that a person can progress faster as a
layperson is a fallacy.
Imagine if you are in a prison with nothing to do
but read buddhist books & meditate.
You will progress very fast indeed.
But 99.99% of the population will not become monks.
Why? karma?
No reason to judge those who havent been able to uphold the homeless life. It isn't an easy path to follow. Now, those who outright disrespect those of the monastic order are only hurting themselves and others with their foolishness and unbridled contempt.
But a number of senior Western Ajahn Chah monks disrobed, when and soon after Ajahn Chah entered into dementia and then died.
But generally monks & nuns disrobe due to developing no samadhi bliss.
A practitioner that has developed samadhi bliss generally does not return to a life of sensuality because samadhi bliss is many times more sublime than sensual pleasure.
To believe the monastic life is about "teachers" and "schools of Buddhism" is not the correct perspective.
Also, if we have a soft spot for "heartwarming romance", the monastic life is probably not for us.
Nobody here said they were interested in the monastic life. We're just answering the OP's questions.
But in the Forest Tradition, the monks are chasing the samadhi bliss
Bliss does not take years to achieve
Bliss is dependent on the absence of the five hindrances
The absence of the five hindrances is dependent on the degree the mind is "stuck on the world"
For one that has no underlying interest in sensuality, then samadhi will not be too difficult
:om: