what is sangha?

genkaku

In Buddhism, sangha (the group or assembly) is one aspect of the so-called Triple Gem of Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.

What, for the purposes of your practice, constitutes "sangha" and what usefulness do you find in it?

fivebells

I posted some notes about the way I (my teacher, really) see it in this comment.

Floating_Abu

In Buddhism, sangha (the group or assembly) is one aspect of the so-called Triple Gem of Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.

What, for the purposes of your practice, constitutes "sangha" and what usefulness do you find in it?

If I was being completely honest it would be all. I have many other explanations though.

zidangus

The Sangha is very useful, how else can experienced practitioners share their wisdom and experience with less experienced practitioners.
The Sangha can be your local temple or for example the words of an experienced Buddhist practitioner you hear or read on the internet.
Hence, I think the Sangha is very useful in aiding a Buddhist on their path, without the Sangha the teachings of Buddha could not have been given to any of us on this forum or indeed the world.


With Metta

Cloud

The conventional Sangha is the monastic order, which not only preserves the Buddha's teachings but is also a conduit through which people come to be taught the Buddha's Dharma. Without them, none of us would know anything of the Buddha now.

The Sangha of noble disciples who have realized the goal for themselves (at very least stream-entry) shows us/me that it is possible and has been done before besides by the Buddha. After all if it was only him and other normal people hadn't been able to realize what he taught, we'd still be questioning if there was any truth to enlightenment or not. As it stands we must develop confidence first, and then will know for sure at the first stage (stream-entry, first bhumi, whatever it may be called).

Both of these together I take as the Sangha of the Triple Gem.

BuckyG

"The word Sangha, on the external level, has two senses: conventional and ideal. In its ideal sense, the Sangha consists of all people, lay or ordained, who have practiced the Dhamma to the point of gaining at least a glimpse of the Deathless. In a conventional sense, Sangha denotes the communities of ordained monks and nuns. The two meanings overlap but are not necessarily identical. Some members of the ideal Sangha are not ordained; some monks and nuns have yet to touch the Deathless. All those who take refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha become members of the Buddha's four-fold assembly (parisa) of followers: monks, nuns, male lay devotees, and female lay devotees. Although there's a widespread belief that all Buddhist followers are members of the Sangha, this is not the case. Only those who are ordained are members of the conventional Sangha; only those who have glimpsed the Deathless are members of the ideal Sangha. Nevertheless, any followers who don't belong to the Sangha in either sense of the word still count as genuine Buddhists in that they are members of the Buddha's parisa.

When taking refuge in the external Sangha, one takes refuge in both senses of the Sangha, but the two senses provide different levels of refuge. The conventional Sangha has helped keep the teaching alive for more than 2,500 years. Without them, we would never have learned what the Buddha taught. However, not all members of the conventional Sangha are reliable models of behavior. So when looking for guidance in the conduct of our lives, we must look to the living and recorded examples provided by the ideal Sangha. Without their example, we would not know (1) that Awakening is available to all, and not just to the Buddha; and (2) how Awakening expresses itself in real life" ("Refuge," Thanissaro Bhikkhu: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/refuge.html#sa2).

DaltheJigsaw

In Buddhism, sangha (the group or assembly) is one aspect of the so-called Triple Gem of Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.

What, for the purposes of your practice, constitutes "sangha" and what usefulness do you find in it?

Meeting people who are interested in Meditating and meeting friends and networking.

Simonthepilgrim

After much reading and reflection of the Triple Jewel, my own, probably idiosyncratic and heretical, take on the Sangha of Refuge extends it from an elite to the whole commonwealth of beings. Just as metta spreads out to embrace all that is, so the Sangha of Refuge goes out far beyond a few monks, nuns, Buddhists or, even, 'good' people. But that is only my opinion and has probably no scriptural support - but I don't give a fig for that.

zenff

Yes, I also prefer the less conventional approach of not excluding anyone.
Robes and shaved heads mean nothing.

Sangha is here and now.
The person I am listening to or talking with right now, the people with me on the train; they are the community. They are the people who matter.

BuckyG

Sangha is here and now.
The person I am listening to or talking with right now, the people with me on the train; they are the community. They are the people who matter.

I like the sangha/parisa/world distinction because I'm finally at a point in my life where I might actually try to SUBMIT to someone's guidance. Not in a blind faith way, but with respect. Sometimes you're the teacher; sometimes you're the student. Still, it's nice to have guidelines from people I do trust--again not with blind faith--like Aj. Geoff, so I can TEST the advice of my would-be teachers. I was initially put off by the notion of refuge and still struggle with it at times, but going for refuge, for me, requires some confidence in WHAT I'm taking refuge in. I hope this doesn't sound snobby, but I do not find the scads of people I've met in dharma circles around here--let alone strangers on public transit!--an appealing refuge!! Hope be damned; maybe I am a snob. Something ELSE to work on! However, I DO have faith in my self as my ultimate refuge because I truly know that that's where the causes of true happiness (and stress/suffering) exist. When the excrement hits the air-conditioning you're the only one that's there for you no matter what!

zenff

I hope this doesn't sound snobby, but I do not find the scads of people I've met in dharma circles around here--let alone strangers on public transit!--an appealing refuge!! Hope be damned; maybe I am a snob. Something ELSE to work on! However, I DO have faith in my self as my ultimate refuge because I truly know that that's where the causes of true happiness (and stress/suffering) exist. When the excrement hits the air-conditioning you're the only one that's there for you no matter what!

On your first point I disagree. I think you should realize that teachers are human beings; not very different from the people on the train. They can be wrong quite well and they are very capable of doing stupid things. You’ll find out.
So on the second point I agree. You are your own ultimate refuge.

sukhita

In Buddhism, sangha (the group or assembly) is one aspect of the so-called Triple Gem of Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.

What, for the purposes of your practice, constitutes "sangha" and what usefulness do you find in it?

I do not have access to any form of Buddhist institutions due to my location and personal circumstances, so recently I spent some time pondering on how the "Sangha" element of the Triple Gem relates to my practice. This is what I have come up with so far. It's a work in progress, so feel free to comment.

Buddha-Dhamma-Sangha are not three separate self-sufficient refuges, rather, they are three interrelated members of a single effective refuge which we call the Triple Gem:

1.The Buddha is the peerless Teacher of the Dhamma and the supreme embodiment of compassion, purity, and wisdom.

2.The Dhamma is the the Blessed One's Teachings, the Path which guides us safely out of the perilous ocean of samsara, and the eternal Truth itself.

3.The Sangha, as a refuge, comprises monks of upright conduct, who have practiced diligently and realized certain stages of awakening along the way. Other monks and laity are not part of the “traditional” refuge.

We go for refuge to the Triple Gem with unwavering faith born out of self-confidence. We surrender our ego, our claim to self-sufficiency, and confidently reach out to the Triple Gem to guide us on our journey to peace and eternal Truth.

It is equally important for the Triple Gem to be meaningful to us. As an example, we can look at the Triple Gem thus: The Buddha and the Monastic Sangha are perfect examples to follow, and, the Dhamma is the perfect Path to follow. The Dhamma is the ultimate refuge, but it is not separate from the Buddha as the peerless Teacher, and, the Monastic Sangha as the custodian of the Teachings.

If we are fortunate enough to have access to a Monastic Sangha, then it would also serve us as our personal Teacher. And if we don't have access to a Monastic Sangha, we should still be grateful to it for preserving and propagating the Teachings.

sukhita

Here's a link to Ajahn Brahm's The Meaning of Sangha.

BuckyG

Well, sukhita's addition of Aj. Brahm's link (above) certainly does muddy the waters even more, doesn't it? Who knew refuge could be so complex?

Simonthepilgrim

Well, sukhita's addition of Aj. Brahm's link (above) certainly does muddy the waters even more, doesn't it? Who knew refuge could be so complex?

Complex? Just think how difficult it is for a political or economic refugee to fathom our protectionist anti-immigration laws. I'm glad that there is no bar to anyone taking refuge in the Triple Jewel but, as I do so each day, I do find myself thinking of and wishing well to all refugees, wherever they are, that they may reach a safe haven.

BuckyG

Well, sukhita's addition of Aj. Brahm's link (above) certainly does muddy the waters even more, doesn't it? Who knew refuge could be so complex?

Complex? Just think how difficult it is for a political or economic refugee to fathom our protectionist anti-immigration laws. I'm glad that there is no bar to anyone taking refuge in the Triple Jewel but, as I do so each day, I do find myself thinking of and wishing well to all refugees, wherever they are, that they may reach a safe haven.

I was TRYING to come off rhetorical (and clearly failed, sorry). It was thinking of the difficulties you mention that initially created aversion within me to Buddhist refuge because I focused on the fleeing, not the shelter. When I started experiencing refuge, I began discovering how much more secure our refuge is, and how much my doubts were founded in fear, greed, hate & delusion.
may you all find the causes of true happiness within

NOTaGangsta

When parents tell their kids to stop hanging with bad kids in their school and hang with all the goody two shoes instead, they are pretty much telling you to join a Sangha. People can only become better when they are influened by people with better morality.

Simonthepilgrim

Of course, the Jewel of Refuge is both a movement and a state, a movement towards and a state of abiding, a particle and a wave, at one and the same time. We can speak about it but words fail, in the end, until we experience it.