A Monk Smoking a Cigarette 40 Min Away from the Temple in front of an Electronic Store???

DaltheJigsaw

That's right I saw two monks after work today. Both of them wearing robes and one of them, an older looking gentlemen was smoking a cigarette. I approached them and asked them if they were indeed monks. They said yes and then I went about trying to communicate with them and asked them which temple they belonged to. One of the monks said a name, but I could not understand him. I then pulled out my Smartphone and asked the monk to type it in into Google. And Bam! There it was:0 a Thai Temple 40 min away from where they were. By the way... The younger monk was hesitant to speak to me, as I think I was rude by approaching them and then continuously asking them if they were monks. However, the older monk was very nice. He kept smiling as the cigarette hanged from his mouth… Interesting! But a monk smoking? Hmmm. Thoughts?

being

oh my god!!! I think you should have called the Buddhist police!

aMatt

Monks are people, knock down the pedestal!

DaltheJigsaw

Monks are people, knock down the pedestal!

People indeed, but a monk smoking a cig? Lol.

DaltheJigsaw

oh my god!!! I think you should have called the Buddhist police!

I was going to, but they kind of ran away after I started walking to my car.

fedaalis

I remember seeing an old video on google (circa 1950's), part of a documentary on Zen Buddhism, where some Zen monks... I believe it was in china or japan, in what looked like a very serious monastery, taking a break and smoking cigarettes... listening to something on the radio. Kind of broke the illusion of the "Sagely" monk

DaltheJigsaw

I remember seeing an old video on google (circa 1950's), part of a documentary on Zen Buddhism, where some Zen monks... I believe it was in china or japan, in what looked like a very serious monastery, taking a break and smoking cigarettes... listening to something on the radio. Kind of broke the illusion of the "Sagely" monk

To be honest...I think it's beautiful and it really was an eye opener for me. What type of Sect do Thai Monks belong to? Is it Zen or Theravāda or could it be both?

vinlyn

I remember seeing an old video on google (circa 1950's), part of a documentary on Zen Buddhism, where some Zen monks... I believe it was in china or japan, in what looked like a very serious monastery, taking a break and smoking cigarettes... listening to something on the radio. Kind of broke the illusion of the "Sagely" monk

To be honest...I think it's beautiful and it really was an eye opener for me. What type of Sect do Thai Monks belong to? Is it Zen or Theravāda or could it be both?

Theravada, and I've seen a fair number of monks smoking in Thailand.

DaltheJigsaw

I remember seeing an old video on google (circa 1950's), part of a documentary on Zen Buddhism, where some Zen monks... I believe it was in china or japan, in what looked like a very serious monastery, taking a break and smoking cigarettes... listening to something on the radio. Kind of broke the illusion of the "Sagely" monk

To be honest...I think it's beautiful and it really was an eye opener for me. What type of Sect do Thai Monks belong to? Is it Zen or Theravāda or could it be both?

Theravada, and I've seen a fair number of monks smoking in Thailand.

Interesting.
Thanks!

SteadyBlue

I grew up by a Korean temple and the monks smoke a lot as far as I can recall. Hell, one of them drives a Jaguar!

DaltheJigsaw

I grew up by a Korean temple and the monks smoke a lot as far as I can recall. Hell, one of them drives a Jaguar!

Lol!
Wowssss....
Funny that they smoke...

cosmicyogisattva

:eek:

....:ninja:

surely agent provocateurs... that grin you noticed on that monks face was it like "yea i only wear these because im paid to" kind of grin?

just kiddin,, im sure the cigarette's are good for their breathing exercises.. oh wait, that's doesn't quite add up...

maybe you should investigate :coffee: infiltrations of religious communities more, it doesn't surprise me personally to hear about something like this, happens quite often.... would say more, but am currently researching something related and so will reply with another thread later... :eek2: ... :ninja: ...

nibbuti

Hi Leon. Please be aware that while there are 'meditation monks' in Theravada, e.g. in the Thai Forest lineage, it is a common practise for householders to ordain for a short period of time because it is expected of them, similar to the military service in some Western countries. It is only natural that these people do not really change their ways according to enlightened principles.

zidangus

I remember seeing an old video on google (circa 1950's), part of a documentary on Zen Buddhism, where some Zen monks... I believe it was in china or japan, in what looked like a very serious monastery, taking a break and smoking cigarettes... listening to something on the radio. Kind of broke the illusion of the "Sagely" monk

To be honest...I think it's beautiful and it really was an eye opener for me. What type of Sect do Thai Monks belong to? Is it Zen or Theravāda or could it be both?

Theravada, and I've seen a fair number of monks smoking in Thailand.

Were they real monks ? there are a lot of fake monks in Thailand, looking for an easy life.

With Metta

being

I hope no-one's making wrong conclusions from this thread... That it would be somehow okay to smoke while following the Buddhist path. Of course it's okay in the sense that everyone's free to do as they wish, but it's clearly only a hindrance on the path (as every other allowance of an addiction).

vinlyn

I remember seeing an old video on google (circa 1950's), part of a documentary on Zen Buddhism, where some Zen monks... I believe it was in china or japan, in what looked like a very serious monastery, taking a break and smoking cigarettes... listening to something on the radio. Kind of broke the illusion of the "Sagely" monk

To be honest...I think it's beautiful and it really was an eye opener for me. What type of Sect do Thai Monks belong to? Is it Zen or Theravāda or could it be both?

Theravada, and I've seen a fair number of monks smoking in Thailand.

Were they real monks ? there are a lot of fake monks in Thailand, looking for an easy life.

With Metta

A LOT of fake monks in Thailand?

Looking for an EASY LIFE?

genkaku

My (Zen) teacher was once upbraided for smoking a cigarette. "Roshi," the observer complained, "cigarettes will kill you." To which my teacher replied, "Yes, but not this one."

PS. If I had to put money on it, I bet that he would have been the first to admit he was a "fake" monk.

zidangus

I remember seeing an old video on google (circa 1950's), part of a documentary on Zen Buddhism, where some Zen monks... I believe it was in china or japan, in what looked like a very serious monastery, taking a break and smoking cigarettes... listening to something on the radio. Kind of broke the illusion of the "Sagely" monk

To be honest...I think it's beautiful and it really was an eye opener for me. What type of Sect do Thai Monks belong to? Is it Zen or Theravāda or could it be both?

Theravada, and I've seen a fair number of monks smoking in Thailand.

Were they real monks ? there are a lot of fake monks in Thailand, looking for an easy life.

With Metta

A LOT of fake monks in Thailand?

Looking for an EASY LIFE?

Yes there are, read this interview with Phra Peter Pannapadipo

http://www.thaibuddhist.com/thai-buddhism/an-interview-with-phra-farang.html


"Q. I have seen some monks go out on their alms round on the back of a motorcycle taxi or standing outside a 7-Eleven convenience store. I have also seen some defending their "turf" from rival temples. Are there many Thai monks out there who are just there for an "easy life" or for the money that they collect?

Sometimes the monks you see standing around at 7-Elevens or wherever and asking for food or money are not actually monks at all. They are ‘false monks’ and the Sangha is very aware of the problem. It has its own investigator monks who go out with police looking for them and the police immediately arrest them, though they are not too harsh on them.

It is true that there are men who ordain just for an easy life, for free food and accommodation, and to make a little money by chanting blessings, but there are lazy people to be found in every walk of life."

I know a lot of Thai people and they know people who became monks and are still married and send cash back to their family.


With Metta

DaltheJigsaw

:eek:

....:ninja:

surely agent provocateurs... that grin you noticed on that monks face was it like "yea i only wear these because im paid to" kind of grin?

just kiddin,, im sure the cigarette's are good for their breathing exercises.. oh wait, that's doesn't quite add up...

maybe you should investigate :coffee: infiltrations of religious communities more, it doesn't surprise me personally to hear about something like this, happens quite often.... would say more, but am currently researching something related and so will reply with another thread later... :eek2: ... :ninja: ...

Interesting!
Would love to hear more!

DaltheJigsaw

I remember seeing an old video on google (circa 1950's), part of a documentary on Zen Buddhism, where some Zen monks... I believe it was in china or japan, in what looked like a very serious monastery, taking a break and smoking cigarettes... listening to something on the radio. Kind of broke the illusion of the "Sagely" monk

To be honest...I think it's beautiful and it really was an eye opener for me. What type of Sect do Thai Monks belong to? Is it Zen or Theravāda or could it be both?

Theravada, and I've seen a fair number of monks smoking in Thailand.

Were they real monks ? there are a lot of fake monks in Thailand, looking for an easy life.

With Metta

I believe they were real monks.
The Temple is real and very popular around here.
But I didn't know that many Thai monks had to do some kind of service like they would here in the Military.

vinlyn

A LOT of fake monks in Thailand?

Looking for an EASY LIFE?



Yes there are, read this interview with Phra Peter Pannapadipo

http://www.thaibuddhist.com/thai-buddhism/an-interview-with-phra-farang.html


"Q. I have seen some monks go out on their alms round on the back of a motorcycle taxi or standing outside a 7-Eleven convenience store. I have also seen some defending their "turf" from rival temples. Are there many Thai monks out there who are just there for an "easy life" or for the money that they collect?

Sometimes the monks you see standing around at 7-Elevens or wherever and asking for food or money are not actually monks at all. They are ‘false monks’ and the Sangha is very aware of the problem. It has its own investigator monks who go out with police looking for them and the police immediately arrest them, though they are not too harsh on them.

It is true that there are men who ordain just for an easy life, for free food and accommodation, and to make a little money by chanting blessings, but there are lazy people to be found in every walk of life."

I know a lot of Thai people and they know people who became monks and are still married and send cash back to their family.


With Metta


Maybe it's the way you're defining it.

Are there fake monks in Thailand. Yes. Lived there, seen that. But are there "lots" of fake monks. No.

In terms of it being an easy life...ever visited many Thai temples? I've visited over a thousand Thai temples, and I would not describe what I see as an "easy life". Ever watched the monks walk barefoot or maybe with sandals on the pavement of the city or the dirt country roads as they accept alms? Not an "easy" life. Ever see what food they end up with? Not an "easy" life. Ever been in a Thai monk's kuti? Not an "easy" life.

tess

I remember seeing an old video on google (circa 1950's), part of a documentary on Zen Buddhism, where some Zen monks... I believe it was in china or japan, in what looked like a very serious monastery, taking a break and smoking cigarettes... listening to something on the radio. Kind of broke the illusion of the "Sagely" monk

To be honest...I think it's beautiful and it really was an eye opener for me. What type of Sect do Thai Monks belong to? Is it Zen or Theravāda or could it be both?

As to illusions: If you thrive for them go for it. Condemn them.

As to naming the sect! Would it make you feel better to know?


All of it is just the labels and an example of human beings with all the weaknesses.

Humans are not perfect. Having a desire to be better it is what is left to us..


Concentrate on your own karma and stop looking for ‘’excuses’’, examples or condemnation around you.

zidangus

Maybe it's the way you're defining it.

Are there fake monks in Thailand. Yes. Lived there, seen that. But are there "lots" of fake monks. No.

In terms of it being an easy life...ever visited many Thai temples? I've visited over a thousand Thai temples, and I would not describe what I see as an "easy life". Ever watched the monks walk barefoot or maybe with sandals on the pavement of the city or the dirt country roads as they accept alms? Not an "easy" life. Ever see what food they end up with? Not an "easy" life. Ever been in a Thai monk's kuti? Not an "easy" life.

It depends what you think the quantity of lots is. My information comes from my Thai friends who say there are many like this not saying they are in the majority, but there are many, anyway my Thai friends, I presume know more than me or you about their own country and culture.


With Metta

vinlyn

It depends what you think the quantity of lots is. My information comes from my Thai friends who say there are many like this not saying they are in the majority, but there are many, anyway my Thai friends, I presume know more than me or you about their own country and culture.

Having lived there, one thing I found out was that Thai people know remarkably little about their own country or the world. They're not always discerning about what they hear. The only number I've ever seen referenced is "a few hundred" out of 200,000 ordained monks. That would be 4 one-hundredths of 1%.

Fenrir

When I visited Thailand I saw monks smoking. I believe that it is not uncommon as is outlined in the link below, but it is surely not encouraged. People are people after all

http://www.fsnewsletter.amaravati.org/html/19/jun2.htm

zidangus

Having lived there, one thing I found out was that Thai people know remarkably little about their own country or the world. They're not always discerning about what they hear. The only number I've ever seen referenced is "a few hundred" out of 200,000 ordained monks. That would be 4 one-hundredths of 1%.

I think that its a very generalized statement you make about Thai people, I know from my friends that this is not true. Maybe for some Thai people but clearly not for all.
By monks standards I would say that a few hundred is a lot of fake monks. Anyway that's my opinion, I respect yours also


With Metta

Dakini

I grew up by a Korean temple and the monks smoke a lot as far as I can recall. Hell, one of them drives a Jaguar!

I can't help but notice how much more seriously Westerners take the precepts, non-attachment, and other teachings, compared to a lot of Asian practitioners. We hand-wring over these details, search our conscience, struggle, submit to endless self-examination, and mindfulness. And that's as it should be, right? That's what practice is all about. But so many Asians just blithely live their lives without all that. They'll observe superstitions and ritual, but it's rare for them to spend time taking the teachings seriously, on a personal, day-to-day level. But maybe that depends on the nationality. Thais are probably different from Tibetans or Chinese or Mongols or Vietnamese.

compassionate_warrior

I think we tend to idealize practitioners from what we might consider to be "exotic" cultures, unless or until we've lived among them. Leon just got a surprise awakening.

vinlyn

I can't help but notice how much more seriously Westerners take the precepts, non-attachment, and other teachings, compared to a lot of Asian practitioners. We hand-wring over these details, search our conscience, struggle, submit to endless self-examination, and mindfulness. And that's as it should be, right? That's what practice is all about. But so many Asians just blithely live their lives without all that. They'll observe superstitions and ritual, but it's rare for them to spend time taking the teachings seriously, on a personal, day-to-day level. But maybe that depends on the nationality. Thais are probably different from Tibetans or Chinese or Mongols or Vietnamese.

I think it's a very human trait that those things that we grow up with, we give lots less attention to, than those things that come to us later, particularly if by our own searching.

A very simple example of this is the town where I grew up...Palmyra, NY...birthplace of Mormonism. Each year they present the spectacle of The Mormon Pagent...yet few native Palmyrans ever go to it...taken for granted.

When I became a Catholic, after being raised as a Methodist, people said there are no more serious Catholic than converts...and I found that to be true for quite a long while.

After a while, things just become ingrained, rather than being something we actually think about.

bravehawk

There was a psychological study of a group who were supposed to pretend to be guards for a week, and a another group was supposed to be the prisoners. After a couple days, it had to be stopped because of what the "guards" thought they were supposed to do.
I think in a sense, this is what is happening here. Don't be so quick to judge, perhaps the monk was seeing what a cig tasted like? or maybe that's what brings him some sort of piece of mind. Not everything we ingest is good for us, but that doesnt mean we cannot control and linit what comes into our bodies. Maybe thats his one and only vice compared to all his other good qualities, such as giving sound advice to people helping their state of minds, or working with charities and helping children,etc,etc. IF smoking is his only vice, let it be then. At least he isnt like the other so called false monks who spend money on selfish things and rob their patrons blind. After all we are alll human, first and foremost....let him be that if he chooses.

Epicurus

Don't you come talking about attachment to me smoking monk!

Lol, actually the first time I went to buddhist group, the teacher also smoked and I also found it funnily ironic.

shanyin

I met a Canadian monk from the Ajahn Muhn/Chah forest tradition and he was rolling a ciggarette. (I think it was for someone else)

Meh...