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Is premarital sex sexual misconduct?
footiam
Veteran
Is premarital sex permissible in Buddhism?
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I believe that sexual misconduct is not a categorical thing but that you'd know it if you saw it. So no to the thread's phrasing and yes to the first post in the thread. Am I conphewzed or am I connfused?
Sex, as an expression of well cultivated intimacy, can be enlightening. It often leaves one full, like a cup overflowing.
Sexual activity, alone or with one or more other humans, cannot be judged without context. Society, supported by organised religion, has attempted to regulate and control sexual activity by instituting marriage or its equivalent. Outwith the accepted forms of marriage has been deemed unacceptable by many societies over the generations. Because such extra-marital activity also appears to be far from unusual and because life-long marriage does not always cohere, systems of dealing with such events, including sanctions, have been devised.
The reasons that society regulates sexual activity include problems of property and power. Whilst these societal needs are important, we have learned that there deeper, psycho-emotional 'energies' at work. In the West, it took Freud and his cohorts to admit publicly that what they called "libido" was a primary human driver. Until then it had been artists, poets, musicians and, latterly, novelists who had attempted to understand and describe this drive.
We are the first generation to have been effective at changing the whole character of sex: the Pill and Viagra are both symbolic of the often unacknowledged obsession with sex. We have expended enormous intellectual and industrial energy to control fertility and extend virility. We may not be able to feed everyone or to cure cancer but we can shag without consequent pregnancy (D.v.) and go on doing it into grey old age.
Is sexual activity outside marriage (pre- or post-) misconduct? Is sexual desire misconduct?
Mu.
The answer for Buddhists is always, it depends. Any sex based on lies or coersion with only the thought of your own pleasure and no concern for the pardner(s) is misconduct. That includes taking advantage of someone drunk (and moves into another precept) or lying about birth control (right speach is yet another precept) or not being careful about spreading disease. In fact, in this one act it's possible to break every single precept. Or simply bring a little fun into someone's life.
Sex with your wife or husband can be misconduct just as easily as before or outside a marriage, to a Buddhist. It's one way we're different from the other religions.
Ahhhh Simon... we can always count on you for the most erudite answer.
:om:
But I'd say the same.
Plus hormones.
But your post does not mention "dukkha" or "suffering" once.
If anyone acknowledged "libido" it was the Buddha.
The Buddha understood this animal urge and understood if it is not "managed" skilfully it will result in suffering.
:-/
Addiction is gravely needing something but deriving limited pleasure from it because that pleasure has outlived in usefulness. In short, diminishing returns. The Buddha called this "hungry ghost"; struggling to find satisfaction.
The Pill is symbolic of the often unacknowledged dukkha of childbirth & ensuing responsibilities. As the Buddha said: "Birth is dukkha".
Viagra is symbolic of the sexual delusions that arise from the Pill, namely, not understanding the purpose of relationship.
:-/
BTW, Brit members, how does it work with the health service/public insurance where you are? In the US insurance companies don't pay for any form of birth control. But they all rushed to cover Viagra. What does this say: we have to keep men active at any cost, but it's ok to saddle women with unwanted pregnancies, and the State has no qualms about covering the cost of raising those children?? Pardon the digression.
Now sex without love or care, that's another issue. But marriage in itself, I believe, is laughable.
So an open minded or wise Buddhist understands it is highly likely people will engage in premarital/uncommitted sex but also understands, for the most part, premarital/uncommitted sex leads to suffering.
Most premarital/uncommitted sexual relationship do not work out & suffering and other relationship bonding issues are often the result of this.
Maybe Footiam would benefit from seeing your "Rogue Nun and sex therapist" video. It seemed aimed at young people.
I don't think I could ever see myself in a relationship with a person who supports the concept of marriage. Would really ring alarm bells in my head.
The health service in the UK has always provided free birth control for women. I've no idea what happens about Viagra - isn't it for old men ?
There are spheres of sexual activity that can enhance spiritual growth & those that can diminish it.
It upsets me that abortion and the like is celebrated and championed as a break-through and staple of woman's rights.
The pill is largely responsible for massive social decline.
That is why some of us have "dropped off the wheel".
A perfect world is an impossibility.
Personally, I do not believe there was ever a Shangrila.
Imo, the Pill mitigates certain sufferings but then creates other sufferings.
I'm not mad at the pill or abortion, I'm mad at the fact if I openly criticised or started a serious conversation on either, I'd be slammed as nothing more than a sexist bigot, some sort of neanderthal.
Sentiment like "taking charge of their sexuality", I really do not like that. I wonder when females will take charge of their responsibility and unborn babies?
The sexual revolution actually began before the Pill, with the Counter-culture that rejected Puritan mores. The early generations of oral contraceptives were viewed as risky; the dosage of hormones was so high, they were eventually proven to be carcinogenic. Many women were wary from the start. Women always controlled their sexuality by providing condoms for their partners.
Many articles have appeared the last few months saying the Pill causes loss of libido in women.
My views and post I'm sure will still annoy you, but there was no personal insult or attack intended.
As for Dazzle Bling Boop, no need to be overly merciful with that cranky dominatrix.
She gives as good as she gets. Its karma!
Increasing libido? Increasing sexual activity? Reducing it? Managing it?
You seem to be quite "feminist" in your views, as in, all that matters is women should be able to do whatever they want.
Often I struggle to see you imparting responsibility upon women.
I get the impression you just criticise men.
:wave:
Down, boy. Everything's ok. :rolleyes:
It should be okay if it is consensual and non-abusive, shouldn’t it? – unless of course there is a specific reason.
Dear Nirvana,
The two questions are about premarital sex. I didn’t know if there is any rule that you can just ask one question in one thread.I believe there is no rule too to say that the two questions has to be answered. If you read on, you may get both conphewzed and connfused, too. Replies could be offtangent too.
Dear NOTaGangsta,
What if it is non-consensual and abusive?
Dear aMatt,
So is the unending cup or the overflowing cup permissible?
Dear Simonthepilgrim,
Is there anything about Buddhism or life in general that has never been discussed before?
Dear Cinorjer,
Yes, come to think about it, why must sex between married couple not a misconduct?
Dear Dhamma Dhatu ,
A person’s interest in the post indicates a person’s mind too.
In any case, like Dakini said: it is not just premarital sex that can bring suffering. I do wonder though how sex can enhance spiritual growth.
Dear CosmicGypsy,
You don’t think premarital sex is misconduct then? It is just another sham?
Dear Dakini,
What is this "Rogue Nun and sex therapist" about?
Dear CosmicGypsy,
I wouldn’t be surprised if many people support the idea of marriage. Many people do get married, don’t they?
Dear Dazzle,
Maybe the question here should be: Is Viagra permissible in Buddhism?
As for Daozen, little to do with Buddhism. Buddhism is not that superficial.
The laws of society do not allow non-consensual and abusive sex.
Are the laws of courts something spiritual?
I was referring to compassion & genuine care rather than theories about kundalini
Regards
There isn't an authority to "permit" or "deny" the rightness of sex, or any other action for that matter. Some actions lead toward open-mindedness and compassion and invigoration. Some actions lead to regret and disconnection and deflation.
In my experience, actions that cultivate genuine intimacy (such as mutually compassionate sex, open communication, gardening) invigorate us, and our minds are naturally generous and alert. It is that attention and generocity that enhances spritual growth, because it is a practice of remaining patient and in the moment, rather than chasing a future goal.
In my opinion, sex isn't really that much different than any other action, it just appears as more vibrant because there is such a potent level of visceral energy, connectedness, vulnerability and expectation.
If you are considering sex, make sure you are able to have an open, responsible conversation with your partner about each others needs, expectations and level of comfort.
With warmth,
Matt
What actually is compassionate relationship? Do you think it can involve sex?
Dear compassionate_warrior,
Don’t know much about kundalini. Don’t understand it.
Dear aMatt,
I was just asking Dhamma Dhatu if there is sex in a compassionate relationship. If there is, it ought to come from both side, don’t you think?
Thanks Dakini. Will check that out.
Dear Malachy12,
I would like to think that everything is based on context. It makes one think.
Dear Daozen,
Marriage, pill, abortion and all – responsibility should be there. Otherwise, as you say, there is social decline.
Dear vinlyn,
For me, marriage and friendship is just as important. It would be nice if there is friendship in a marriage.
:bowdown: Well said vinlyn. CG it puzzles me you can be so anti marriage yet anti pill and claim feminism. Are you a feminist or just carrying a grudge against anything you see to be instituted and/or created by men?
In metta,
Raven
In metta,
Raven
Would you suppose people can be anti- premarital sex too?
Dear vinlyn,
We have different sensitivities, don’t we?
Spiny
'Buddha is not too concerned with birth control.
He is more concerned with rebirth control' lol.