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Struggle to drop ego - Your experiences?
CosmicGypsy
Veteran
As some of you may know, and most of you not, I'm pretty green to Buddhist concepts and practices. Although some of my life style choices and previous/current views -- Vegetarianism, Anarchism etc -- are pretty compatible with Buddhism. I also hold many Buddhist ideals in high regard.
However: I'm struggling to beat my ego and my desire to be right, or 'win' an issue, or appear right or correct on something. Particularly this seems to be an issue in the morning(or after I wake, more specifically) as I've never been a morning person. I've cut coffee out of my life and as a Rugby player(we can get to the issue of violence as a sport in a different thread lol) I'm pretty cautious and aware of what I consume.
What I'm finding is that once my brain kicks into gear as it is, I'm reasonably selfless and mature(in relative terms). BUT I'm really having a problem with waking up on the wrong side of the bed. I engage in and often incite petty arguments, and worse still once aware of this(Generally in the form of forum arguments, so this is much time after getting out of bed) my ego prevents me from reeling in and dropping something, dropping the issue, dropping the ego, apologising(because I feel I'm right).
I find myself doing things and behaving in a way that quite honestly I'm regretful of, if not embarrassed. This was never an issue before... I mean of course it was, but before I was ignorant or unaware! Now, I really should know better.
Most of these arguments involve issues that are close to my heart and that I believe to be hugely important. BUT I feel my commitments and passions(although well intended, I don't believe there's wrong-thought) are detrimental to my progress and being. My ego still remains and I'm still quite bitter about the world and what I perceive to be most peoples ignorance and lack of humanity.
I'm open to experience, understanding and criticism, constructive or otherwise. I'm really not sure what I'm looking for? Potentially reassurance that these thoughts and issues are prevalent or existent amongst people new or old to Buddhist ideals.
Sorry for typing alot. I often doubt my ability to articulate and type too much!
However: I'm struggling to beat my ego and my desire to be right, or 'win' an issue, or appear right or correct on something. Particularly this seems to be an issue in the morning(or after I wake, more specifically) as I've never been a morning person. I've cut coffee out of my life and as a Rugby player(we can get to the issue of violence as a sport in a different thread lol) I'm pretty cautious and aware of what I consume.
What I'm finding is that once my brain kicks into gear as it is, I'm reasonably selfless and mature(in relative terms). BUT I'm really having a problem with waking up on the wrong side of the bed. I engage in and often incite petty arguments, and worse still once aware of this(Generally in the form of forum arguments, so this is much time after getting out of bed) my ego prevents me from reeling in and dropping something, dropping the issue, dropping the ego, apologising(because I feel I'm right).
I find myself doing things and behaving in a way that quite honestly I'm regretful of, if not embarrassed. This was never an issue before... I mean of course it was, but before I was ignorant or unaware! Now, I really should know better.
Most of these arguments involve issues that are close to my heart and that I believe to be hugely important. BUT I feel my commitments and passions(although well intended, I don't believe there's wrong-thought) are detrimental to my progress and being. My ego still remains and I'm still quite bitter about the world and what I perceive to be most peoples ignorance and lack of humanity.
I'm open to experience, understanding and criticism, constructive or otherwise. I'm really not sure what I'm looking for? Potentially reassurance that these thoughts and issues are prevalent or existent amongst people new or old to Buddhist ideals.
Sorry for typing alot. I often doubt my ability to articulate and type too much!
0
Comments
But as far as letting go of ego: I'm working on that as well, so I can relate to you. After many years of experience, I finally realized that "being right" and "winning arguments" can often be Pyrrhic victories, because you alienate and sow seeds of resentment and ill-will. No one's mind changes, even if you "prove" them wrong.
The wisest people have learned this as well, and they have learned how to skillfully fashion their speech, so that rather than arguing, they're gently persuading, leading others to see the light, guiding the formation of right thoughts. Socrates and Buddha did this; Benjamin Franklin was very skilled at it too. Zen masters often practice it as well: asking questions that help others see the truth, rather than "telling" someone how it is.
The way to become wise like that, IMHO, is to "take refuge in the Triple Gem," i.e. immerse yourself in the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha. Continual diligent practice of the Noble Eightfold Path is the way to become free of the ego's hold on you.
Check out the Dhammapada, the sayings of the Buddha. He talks about letting go of ego, as does the ultra-wise Tao te Jing.
Your response is much appreciated, the problem I'm having is that I'm not unfamiliar with this! That's what really annoys me! I know I'm not winning, but I'm struggling to bite my tongue. I look back at arguments and the like, and though I believe myself to be right, I think to myself "Jeeze I'm a d/ckhead". Maybe I just need to reflect more and restraint or understanding will come naturally, or I'll have an epiphany of sorts.
On the latter part of your post I believe you may be right. I feel my financial obligations and needs(put that in italics) are getting in the way of my progression.
Cheers again Zendo
With metta,
Sabre
What helps to clear the dusty atmosphere a bit is a meditation practice. It's OK to believe one thing or another about Buddhism for a while, but at some point, if you don't put your money where your mouth is, all you end up with is another limping belief system, something that works on Tuesdays and falls apart by Thursday, something you can eulogize and sing about, but can't make use of.
Meditation, of whatever sort you choose, requires patience and courage and doubt. It requires discipline -- which basically means doing what you don't want to do. Pick a time during the day to sit down, erect your spine, shut up and focus your mind. Don't expect anything, least of all an overnight reversal of old habits. Bit by bit, day by day, week by week, year by year, the experience that meditation offers takes hold. Worship and praise and belief dwindle because now you have experience. And what experience teaches is that "ego" is not exactly what you may think. It is not precisely me-mine-I, but rather a set of circumstances configured in a particular way. The question then becomes, not so much how you are configured, but who is the one doing the configuring.
Take your time. Use your courage.
Buddhism works pretty well.
Buddha was concerned with what was "right". But for him, "right" meant that which leads to peace, to well-being, to harmlessness, to benefit, etc.
Is your need to be "right" connected with ego gratification or connected with what is "right", in the Buddhist sense?
If your arguements are "petty" then, yes, your mind may be just cranky, frustrated or dissatisfied.
But in Buddhism, if we are AWARE of such things, this is considered good.
For example, the Buddha taught the superior person is one that is AWARE of a blemish (rather than unaware of it).
To be a seeker of "truth" or "rightness" is better than being a sleepy sheep.
For example, your posts on this forum have certainly been interesting.
Regards
most people live in the what ifs. or that which should be. focus on that which is.
you don't drop the ego. you drop the function of ego. you drop the grasping onto ego.
it's the grasping which causes problems. good luck though.
I haven't done it myself yet
Welcome to the forum! I hear your ruminating around this pattern of yours, and a few things came to mind as I regarded your words. From this and other posts of yours I have read, you seem to have very solid views. Said differently, your mind seems rigidly set in "your way" of seeing and thinking.
Quite often we project our own views into the world around us... thinking everyone is like us, with the same conditions and feelings, the same mental capability, the same views. As though there is a single ethic handbook that works for everyone, a single path all people should be walking if they weren't idiots and jerks.
This is not a strength, because when you are right, and someone is acting unskillfully, you most likely habitually wield your views like a weapon...trying to beat the ignorance out of humankind, rather than helping anyone. The judge, with a stick, beating sense into the idiots. When you are wrong, you cling to your notions as though they are right, then use your stick to beat up yourself, calling yourself a dickhead and feeling ashamed.
What can happen in this type of mind is great agitation. Like a wild horse, with walls closing in, your mind might buck and kick when you are surrounded by how right and just and correct you are, or by how terrible and wrong and cruel you are.
If you can see the merit of letting go of this attachment to views then meditation might be all it takes to work through this affliction. Do you meditate? Do you simply recognize Buddhist philosophies?
A simple excercise that might help is to intentionally stop being so preoccupied with yourself. Try to really look at other people to see what they are saying, what they are meaning, what is present with them in the moment, why they have the views they have. Get off your soap box (or your cross) and ask people about how they see their world, what makes them tick, see if you can learn some of the colors, the shades of human nature.
Unclench your fist from the notion of a single, correct view or path, and learn about why people are suffering. There is not a jerk to be found, only brothers and sisters who are spinning, hoping, feeling.
Good luck on the journey, and I hope you find some peaceful cultivation.
With warmth,
Matt
You have had lot's of top-down suggestions(kindness, compassion, happiness cultivation) to help with your Self-Cherishing-Mind/ego issues. All are essential.
My suggestion to add to these would be to attack ego from the bottom. A simple, mundane but clear and intuitive understanding of the emptiness and interconnectivity of all points is a sharp and underused blade in this battle.
This to me is the essence of Right Understanding(View) and it doesn't need decades to realise but can be realised in seconds once you make the philosophical commitment to the understanding.
Good luck with your issue, and remember, your issue isn't that important, apart from to your SCM:)
Sometimes you don't need to go that far. If I believe there is a dollar bill on my pocket and I want to make sure, all I need to do is check my pocket. I don't have to reflect on the selflessness of a dollar bill.
If I have a belief that is supporting bad behavior, all I need to do is challenge it. Sometimes people try to apply the emptiness approach here.
If I believe that sugar makes me happy and that makes me eat tons of sugar, I can simply challenge the notion that sugar will always make me happy, or that I need to make myself happy by specifically eating sugar or that I need specifically a large amount of it to be happy instead of just a little.
What happens is that sometimes people go like " I desire sugar, but who is really this I?" And then they try to negate their desire for sugar by saying that is nobody able to desire.
Problem is, Emptiness is like seeing, Conventional truth is like hearing: You cannot deny the existence of a sound because you can't SEE it.
The problem with desiring sugar operates in a conventional level - the conditions for desire to arise are there, hence desire arises. Desire is selfless in the sense that is doesn't arise independent of causes and conditions, parts, or a consciousness. But you bet your selfless ass that it WILL arise if the conditions are there.
What conditions my desire of sugar is a belief, a conventional belief, that is refuted by reason on a conventional level BECAUSE MY BELIEF IS FALSE ON A CONVENTIONAL LEVEL. Trying to say that the desire doesn't exist because it is empty is negating too much (you are using one truth to deny the existence of the other, while in fact they are non-exclusive).
This is one of the more important things that I've come to understand. Nowhere in the aggregates is "ego" or "self" found. Nowhere in experience, apart from conditioned thought and conditioned perspective, is either found.
The key to truly being free of the ego - even for a brief moment - is simply to be aware of its existence. If you find yourself trying to win an argument, and you notice that you're doing it, your ego has just been deflated a little. Whether you go on to act on it or not (ie: whether you let the argument go or you go on to try an win it), you've noticed what you're doing. You're *aware* of the moment. For even a brief second, you're free of the ego, even if it comes back with a fury. Eventually those little moments will grow, and you'll be able to "head it off at the pass" - to allow things to be without the need to even begin to be right, or to win.
I doubt anyone reading this avoids ego entirely. In fact, unless there's some totally enlightened being reading this (unlikely), then I *guarantee* everyone reading it has bouts of the ego arising and trying to win - to feed itself. It's the nature of the beast.
My recommendation is stop trying so hard. Just breathe, be aware, and just be. It will start to melt away on its own. But the harder you try, the more the ego is fighting for its existence, and the less you'll accomplish.
I'll take everything on board and will look to increase my mediation, or atleast pen something down that resembles routine or schedule.
Cheers again guys
Best wishes,
Abu
Yes, it can be quite uncomfortable really seeing how the mind works, and all those irritating habitual patterns that we have. But stay with it, it's all just stuff which comes and goes, and we don't have to take it all quite so seriously. It sounds to me like you're on the right track.
Spiny