Sanghas, groups, centres and other necessary (or unnecessary) evils...

budding_flower

After reading many threads in the NewBuddhist community, I came across many posts about 'this sangha has done this', 'that group has done that', 'this centre has these flaws avoid it' and blah, blah, blah. So, joining a group, a sangha, a community can be very beneficial for some or bothersome for others. So, what is motivating us to join a sangha, group, community as Buddhists? How can we separate the human err from the wisdom and experience that we gain in a sangha? Are we open and forgiving to teacher’s mistakes or hurry to burry them under a pile of accusations and also hurry to turn are backs away, preaching others to follow our example? Who are we to judge anyone and when does healthy discernment stop to give its place to prejudice and false expectations?

BuckyG

evil is never necessary

Julia

I think sanghas can be very beneficial. But I have also experienced sanghas where it is like a competion "who is the most compassionate being". It feels that you can´t relax in that environment and be yourself in the moment. I have also experienced that some people pointing finger at others complaining that they are not ethical enough.
I think a sangha shall be open and relaxed and a forum to be who you are without ethical polices and competition.

caz

Everything comes from the side of your own mind, whether someone is nice or nasty depends upon the person viewing it and as always with karma whatever you experience is down to the karma you've created in the past, so when shit happens we can either break down and blame the world around us as the cause of our problems ( certainly deafeats the point of mind training ) or use difficult circumstances as an oppertunity to transform the mind into something more positive.

Julia

I agree, it depends on our own mind. I just expected more from a buddhist sangha. My fault I guess. I thought a sangha would be a support to your practice and to find spiritual friends.
The world outside sangha can be a big challenge sometimes so I guess sanghas is just one of them.

:rant:

genkaku

A popular sangha metaphor in Zen is the one about the farmer who harvests his potatoes, puts them in a burlap bag and tosses them into a flowing stream. The potatoes rub against each other and they all become clean.

So ... we can call sangha a necessary evil or a necessary good. We can call it whatever we like ... the point is to clean up our act.

caz

Sangha can be just as challanging as the world outside dont forget they are people to we cannot tell whom is suffering with delusions or not but they are certainly a worth while support and if one is serious about training the mind then it is good to have people who are seeking to do the same, even if one does think they have faults focusing on these is just going to defeat the point of moving your mind away from negative thoughts, Transforming daily experience into Dharma is what its all about !

compassionate_warrior

Are we open and forgiving to teacher’s mistakes or hurry to burry them under a pile of accusations and also hurry to turn are backs away, preaching others to follow our example? Who are we to judge anyone and when does healthy discernment stop to give its place to prejudice and false expectations?

I think this is the crux of the matter and a good topic for its own thread. We must be discerning of both the teacher (does he/she walk his/her talk?) and the sangha as a whole. I wouldn't be comfortable in a sangha that felt like it had a cult-like devotion to the teacher, for example, and that's how problems develop.

To some extent, it depends on why we have come to the sangha, what we want from the experience. If we're there to receive certain teachings, not too much discernment is needed, and minor mistakes by the teacher can be corrected and forgiven. If we're there for long-term study, HHDL and others recommend several years of checking out the teacher first. If we're looking for a guru-student relationship, a one-on-one relationship for advanced teachings and Higher Yoga Tantra, 12 years of researching the teacher before committing one's "body, speech, and mind" are recommended, and it's fair to hold the teacher to the highest standard.

federica

When it feels good, do it.
If in doubt, don't.