Hey, it's now 1945 EDT on 21 May 2011, and I'm still here! What's up with that?

Mountains

I think P.T. Barnum was off by at least an order of magnitude on how many suckers are born every minute...

[Mod Edit: Moved to General Banter]

person

Tornado sirens went off here at about 6pm. I nearly dropped to my knees in repentance. :rolleyes:

compassionate_warrior

I guess this must be one of the fringe benefits of not having a TV--I never heard of this thing. How did you guys hear about it? I haven't seen it in the newspapers...

Mountains

I don't watch TV either - how can you not have heard about this? It's been *everywhere* in the media. I've seen at least a half dozen vehicles driving around town where I live that are plastered with huge signs proclaiming May 21st.

Oh well. Glad they were wrong

DaltheJigsaw

I guess this must be one of the fringe benefits of not having a TV--I never heard of this thing. How did you guys hear about it? I haven't seen it in the newspapers...

Blogs/Online NewsPapers.

DaltheJigsaw

I don't watch TV either - how can you not have heard about this? It's been *everywhere* in the media. I've seen at least a half dozen vehicles driving around town where I live that are plastered with huge signs proclaiming May 21st.

Oh well. Glad they were wrong

DaltheJigsaw

Where

I don't watch TV either - how can you not have heard about this? It's been *everywhere* in the media. I've seen at least a half dozen vehicles driving around town where I live that are plastered with huge signs proclaiming May 21st.

Oh well. Glad they were wrong

Where do you live?
And of course the Harold Camping made 87 millions dollars from this.

Mountains

Virginia. I've actually met college educated people who bought into this nonsense. So-called "Christians".

Dakini

I'd never heard of it either, until it came up on this forum. In NM, we don't have fundamentalist Christians, we have Catholics (it's mainly a Hispanic state, and 10% Native American). The "Anglos" aren't particularly religious, AFAIK, except for the Buddhists, if you could call that "religious" (I don't). So there's been nothing about it in the local papers, no one's been talking about it. Not on the public radar at all.

zidangus

End of the world story made the news in the UK
Before May 22
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13468131

After May 22
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13489641

Mountains

Apparently it was a banner headline in the Melbourne, Australia daily paper (when it didn't happen). It's been *all* over NPR, CNN, and other news outlets for several weeks.

Cinorjer

I'm not sure how much of this was overhyped by the media. How many people actually bought into it hook line and sinker, to the point of messing their lives up? The reporters found a couple of families. Still, a couple are too many.

Mountains

I'm not sure how much of this was overhyped by the media. How many people actually bought into it hook line and sinker, to the point of messing their lives up? The reporters found a couple of families. Still, a couple are too many.

According to one NPR report, they estimated between 20,000 and 30,000 people were "avid followers" of the "preacher" who was espousing this nonsense. I know there were lots more who might not have sold everything to go on the road, but who believed it none the less. As I said, I personally have met seemingly intelligent people who did/do. It was undoubtedly over-hyped in the media (what isn't?), but it was real none the less.

kayte

I heard a woman on a call in radio show crying that her ex-husband was an avid devotee of this preacher and had taken off with their children. She had no idea where they were and was afraid of what he might do when this turns out to be a hoax. Other people expressed concerns about possible suicides. One man in NYC used all of his pension money to buy billboards for this folly. It's said that Camping has disappeared and they can't find him. He's probably hiding from his followers and possibly the law, but how many will be convinced that he was taken? A sad and strange event, for sure.

person

In that post 21st article it said Camping made alot of money from this, I hope he pays back the people who spent all that money on billboards.

Also, this is a very kind thought:

A group from the Calvary Bible Church in Milpitas, California, organised a Sunday morning service to comfort believers in Mr Camping's preaching, the New York Times reported.

"We are here because we care about these people," the newspaper quoted James Bynum, a church deacon, as saying. "It's easy to mock them. But you can go kick puppies, too. But why?"

kayte

In that post 21st article it said Camping made alot of money from this, I hope he pays back the people who spent all that money on billboards.

Also, this is a very kind thought:

A group from the Calvary Bible Church in Milpitas, California, organised a Sunday morning service to comfort believers in Mr Camping's preaching, the New York Times reported.

"We are here because we care about these people," the newspaper quoted James Bynum, a church deacon, as saying. "It's easy to mock them. But you can go kick puppies, too. But why?"

I've heard that churches were organizing efforts to help these folks through their emotional trauma. These people have been cruelly betrayed. We live in a society that capitalizes on people's pain and humiliation. I'm glad to see some people step to practice love and compassion instead.

genkaku

Received this after-the-rapture spoof today in email:

vinlyn

I've heard that churches were organizing efforts to help these folks through their emotional trauma. These people have been cruelly betrayed. We live in a society that capitalizes on people's pain and humiliation. I'm glad to see some people step to practice love and compassion instead.

I don't know. They brought on their own pain and humiliation. While I don't want bad things to happen to them, I also have trouble having too much sympathy for them. Consider:

* They are following a self-proclaimed preacher that is considered by the vast majority of Christians to be way off the map (not as far off the map as Jim Jones, but off).

* The preacher had made similar predictions before that were wrong.

* The preacher allowed them to spend their entire life's savings on billboards promoting the rapture...one man, for example, spending his whole savings -- $140,000. I don't even have $140,000.

* Not a single other significant preacher agreed with the prediction.

* The Bible itself says that no man will know the day or time of the rapture.

* And remember, you're not included in their rapture. You're not an exclusive follower of Jesus Christ, so you will be left behind writing in suffering for months. How about a little karma here?

Again, I don't want anything bad to happen to these people, but I'll reserve my compassion for the indigent, the ill, and others who have fallen on misfortune due to no fault of their own. At least, the way I see compassion -- which is actually doing something for someone, not simply "feeling their pain".

Mountains

Puppies don't ask to be kicked in the worldwide media either, do they?

vinlyn

Puppies are not intelligent adults.

Floating_Abu

I'm not sure how much of this was overhyped by the media. How many people actually bought into it hook line and sinker, to the point of messing their lives up? The reporters found a couple of families. Still, a couple are too many.

@Cinorjer

That's what I wondered. I cannot see any quotes of numbers of people in any of the newspapers. It looks more like a big news coverage than anything.

Still.

genkaku

It's probably easier to think about the end of the world than it is to address the hard times so many are suffering.

kayte

I don't know. They brought on their own pain and humiliation. While I don't want bad things to happen to them, I also have trouble having too much sympathy for them. Consider:

* They are following a self-proclaimed preacher that is considered by the vast majority of Christians to be way off the map (not as far off the map as Jim Jones, but off).

* The preacher had made similar predictions before that were wrong.

* The preacher allowed them to spend their entire life's savings on billboards promoting the rapture...one man, for example, spending his whole savings -- $140,000. I don't even have $140,000.

* Not a single other significant preacher agreed with the prediction.

* The Bible itself says that no man will know the day or time of the rapture.

* And remember, you're not included in their rapture. You're not an exclusive follower of Jesus Christ, so you will be left behind writing in suffering for months. How about a little karma here?

Again, I don't want anything bad to happen to these people, but I'll reserve my compassion for the indigent, the ill, and others who have fallen on misfortune due to no fault of their own. At least, the way I see compassion -- which is actually doing something for someone, not simply "feeling their pain".

You make very valid and excellent points here and I don't disagree. I don't advocate coddling these people, but they were probably in some emotional or mental trouble before this hoax. I'm all for holding these preachers responsible for the harm they do to their followers. What Camping did was sort of like yelling "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater. People panic and people get hurt or even killed. He convinced these folks that their troubles would all be over on the 21st. Who knows- maybe some welcomed the news because they were desperate to escape life's problems. Maybe some were alone and hoped to be accepted and welcome somewhere. Troubled people rarely listen when their minds are made up. Organized religion hasn't always taken care with their followers. People can be drawn into cult like organizations because of the techniques used to lure them in. I know, Caveat Emptor- Let the buyer beware! Cults single out people who are troubled or alienated from society. Some folks with ego issues want to be a member of an elite, special group. Who can say. There are many jokes, videos,and pictures dedicated to this last exercise in theistic tomfoolery. Hey, I laughed and I do wish that people had used better judgment before taking things this far. I was surprised to hear a few people express concern about the possibility of it being true. We can hope that this will teach people to employ more critical thinking in the future.

Bodha8

You can light many candles from one candle without reducing the one candle's power. Compassion is infinite, one cannot waste it on the poor unfortunates who fell prey to this scheme.

One should not turn his back on those that are suffering just because they did not include him in their "RAPTURE". Is not having compassion for these poor suffering individuals, who have squandered their life's savings, supposed to be a form of punishment for them. Are they not worthy of our compassion? I am sorry, for me I cannot say that this is Right Thought.

We do not know what life decisions led these poor souls down this path, and frankly, there but for fortune go you or I. If others feel compelled to judge them in an effort to satisfy their ego, I for one have compassion for them as well.

Namaste

person

A brief commando style interview with Camping on May 22, the guy looks genuinly bewildered to me. I don't think he was misleading people deliberatly out of self promotion, just genuinely misguided.

vinlyn

You can light many candles from one candle without reducing the one candle's power. Compassion is infinite, one cannot waste it on the poor unfortunates who fell prey to this scheme.

One should not turn his back on those that are suffering just because they did not include him in their "RAPTURE". Is not having compassion for these poor suffering individuals, who have squandered their life's savings, supposed to be a form of punishment for them. Are they not worthy of our compassion? I am sorry, for me I cannot say that this is Right Thought.

We do not know what life decisions led these poor souls down this path, and frankly, there but for fortune go you or I. If others feel compelled to judge them in an effort to satisfy their ego, I for one have compassion for them as well.

Namaste

Perhaps it's how you and I are defining compassion.

Do I feel sorry for them? Yes. But I personally don't definite that as compassion.

Some of the volunteer work I've done or facilitated...that to me is compassion. When my 76 year-old neighbor works at the soup kitchen...that to me is compassion. When I sent a substantial check for one of the charities that was helping at the Japanese tsunami...that to me was compassion.

Compassion to me indicates an action, not just having sympathy.

Mountains

I'm very conflicted about this whole thing. On the one hand, I feel compassion for them, but on the other hand, it's hard to feel compassionate about people who are willing to abandon their families and give someone like this money when it's clearly a sham. I just can't figure out why one would want to give money to a man who is predicting the end of the world. It makes no sense to me any way I look at it... Except that he's a flim-flam artist masquerading as a preacher who suckered them into it for his own gain. Looks like a very nice house in Alameda to me.

Cloud

I feel compassion for these people, regardless of how people judge them. The choices we make in this life depend upon the experiences of our lives, and their experiences led their minds to believing in such claims whole-heartedly. They're not bad people, they're not stupid, they're just poorly conditioned (in relation to reality) and were taken advantage of, and my heart goes out to them. There is no difference here than with any other difference-of-beliefs between humans; we are all where we are today, who we are today, because of our experiences.

For that matter I doubt the radio-preacher did it on purpose, he was probably as misguided as the rest of them. Before we start to judge people, we should imagine the full course of their lives. It couldn't have been any other way for them. They may change after this, but all of their prior change brought them exactly to this point. This is exactly the same for every human being still bound by conditioning/samsara.

Bodha8

Before we start to judge people, we should imagine the full course of their lives. It couldn't have been any other way for them.

Very well said Cloud

vinlyn

So now the pastor is saying -- oops, miscalculation. The rapture is in October instead.

Cinorjer

So now the pastor is saying -- oops, miscalculation. The rapture is in October instead.

Yes, the poor man is no different from the stereotypical doomsayer madman standing on a sidewalk wearing a "world is coming to an end" sign and shouting about hidden voices, it seems.

The hallmark of delusion--what distinguises it from normal beliefs--is that reality doesn't effect it. When a delusion comes up against reality, delusion always wins. The man's delusion is not that he thinks the world is going to end this year; his delusion is that he, and only he, is capable of figuring this out, down to the exact date, with certainty. If it doesn't happen, then he only made a mistake in math. We all make silly little mistakes at times. His delusion of having the ability to determine the date remains unshaken.

It's simple to tell the difference between the true believers and those just milking the "end times are near" teat for money. Only the really deluded put a date on it, because they're the only ones who really believe what they're saying. The closest the smart doomsayer will say is, "Gonna happen soon. In our generation. Here's a list of ancient prophesies and why they've come true recently...so give money. Spreading the word isn't cheap." For evangelical Christians, the "end time" has been preached ever since the Apostle Paul walked around telling everyone not to bother getting married, they wouldn't be around long enough to worry about future generations.

What's really sad is, people desperate for a prophet in scary times reinforce his delusion.

Floating_Abu

There's a linkage in harm, that's for sure. I guess that's why Buddhism has a potential to help some I guess.