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Isn't the initiating desire of the ego-mind that leads us to enlightenment?

edited June 2011 in Philosophy
After studying Buddhism for quite a while, I realized this. Who is it but the ego-mind that first shows interest in Buddhism, in order to cease suffering in a person’s life and the life of others? So, the person begins to study Buddhism and begins to practice and meditate. Then the person realizes the nature of the ego-mind that is full of desires and tries to discard it in a 'noble' way following the eightfold path. But isn't it the ego mind that first lead the person to the study of the Dharma? Wouldn't it be wiser to befriend the ego-mind in the course of the transformation of the person and make peace with it rather than engage a war against it? What is your opinion on that subject?

Comments

  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    no war. just seeing it for what it is. empty of inherent existence.

    buddhism in short is about total acceptance of all things and the wisdom from seeing reality as it is rather than seeing it from our subjective filters.

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Hyper-analysis causes paralysis.

    The moment you start thinking, 'who is it but the ego mind'... then indeed, 'it is who but the ego mind'....
  • Hyper-analysis causes paralysis.

    The moment you start thinking, 'who is it but the ego mind'... then indeed, 'it is who but the ego mind'....
    indeed. Vipassianya or shikantaza meditation is the first step in seeing into the nature of your mind workings.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    My Zen teacher once remarked, "Without ego, nothing gets done." You can't talk a conundrum like that into submission, but you can keep it in mind as you practice.
  • Dear @federica, I once had that opinion not to analyze things too much, but I realize now that a healthy investigation of once path is a good addition against blind faith. That is why I am philosophising (not analyzing), but still meditating in order not to get caught up to over-philosophizin things.... :p
    And @genkaku, I agree with that teacher.... ;)

    Cheers....
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    And @genkaku, I agree with that teacher.... ;)
    ________________

    Yes, agreement is easy. It's the actualization part that can twist your knickers.
  • no war. just seeing it for what it is. empty of inherent existence.

    buddhism in short is about total acceptance of all things and the wisdom from seeing reality as it is rather than seeing it from our subjective filters.

    Nice definition. In that total acceptance is invicibility?
  • -Yes, agreement is easy. It's the actualization part that can twist your knickers.-

    There is no spiritual path that will not twist your knickers if you take it seriously. My agreement with that teachers comes from my experience and realizations of my own spiritual path... ;)
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    edited June 2011
    The path leading to liberation is considered to be illusiory as well. So yes indeed we use the ego to ultimatly liberate it.

    ---

    "Monks, I will teach you the Dhamma compared to a raft, for the purpose of crossing over, not for the purpose of holding onto. Listen and pay close attention. I will speak."

    "As you say, lord," the monks responded to the Blessed One.

    The Blessed One said: "Suppose a man were traveling along a path. He would see a great expanse of water, with the near shore dubious and risky, the further shore secure and free from risk, but with neither a ferryboat nor a bridge going from this shore to the other. The thought would occur to him, 'Here is this great expanse of water, with the near shore dubious and risky, the further shore secure and free from risk, but with neither a ferryboat nor a bridge going from this shore to the other. What if I were to gather grass, twigs, branches, and leaves and, having bound them together to make a raft, were to cross over to safety on the other shore in dependence on the raft, making an effort with my hands and feet?' Then the man, having gathered grass, twigs, branches, and leaves, having bound them together to make a raft, would cross over to safety on the other shore in dependence on the raft, making an effort with his hands and feet. Having crossed over to the further shore, he might think, 'How useful this raft has been to me! For it was in dependence on this raft that, making an effort with my hands and feet, I have crossed over to safety on the further shore. Why don't I, having hoisted it on my head or carrying on my back, go wherever I like?' What do you think, monks: Would the man, in doing that, be doing what should be done with the raft?"

    "No, lord."

    "And what should the man do in order to be doing what should be done with the raft? There is the case where the man, having crossed over, would think, 'How useful this raft has been to me! For it was in dependence on this raft that, making an effort with my hands and feet, I have crossed over to safety on the further shore. Why don't I, having dragged it on dry land or sinking it in the water, go wherever I like?' In doing this, he would be doing what should be done with the raft. In the same way, monks, I have taught the Dhamma compared to a raft, for the purpose of crossing over, not for the purpose of holding onto. Understanding the Dhamma as taught compared to a raft, you should let go even of Dhammas, to say nothing of non-Dhammas."

    ---

    So the raft can be cimpared to our ego. It's needed to cross over the river but once there its to be abandoned
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    @StoicBuddhistAlex who knows for sure. try it out, tell me how it goes.
  • There are skillful (kusala) and unskillful (akusala) desires. These are skillful desires:

    There is the case where a monk generates desire, endeavors, arouses persistence, upholds & exerts his intent:

    * for the sake of the non-arising of evil, unskillful qualities that have not yet arisen...
    * for the sake of the abandoning of evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen...
    * for the sake of the arising of skillful qualities that have not yet arisen...(and)
    * for the maintenance, non-confusion, increase, plenitude, development, & culmination of skillful qualities that have arisen.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-vayamo/
  • cazcaz Veteran United Kingdom Veteran
    After studying Buddhism for quite a while, I realized this. Who is it but the ego-mind that first shows interest in Buddhism, in order to cease suffering in a person’s life and the life of others? So, the person begins to study Buddhism and begins to practice and meditate. Then the person realizes the nature of the ego-mind that is full of desires and tries to discard it in a 'noble' way following the eightfold path. But isn't it the ego mind that first lead the person to the study of the Dharma? Wouldn't it be wiser to befriend the ego-mind in the course of the transformation of the person and make peace with it rather than engage a war against it? What is your opinion on that subject?
    No it is not wise to befriend or cherish the ego-mind or deluded mind. These have been the minds that since beginingless time have lead us deeper and deeper into samsara their very nature is deception, We are lead to Buddhadharma via our previous imprints there is an indestructible potential in the minds of all sentient beings to become enlightened, The self cherishing mind always shows an interest in its own happiness however it is important to take note that it is the wisdom mind that recognises the usefullness of Dharma practise where as the self cherishing mind possess no qualities of wisdom.
    The Kadampa Geshe's have a saying that their primary job is to Harm delusions as much as possible and benefit others as much as possible we should follow their advise and never develop patience toward self-cherishing and its stemming minds as being patient with these minds will causes us to prolong our suffering. We need to be motivated to destroy these minds I cannot stress this enough they are the only enemy we have and their only function is to harm us.
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    The only enemy is yourself. That which wants to destroy the ego is merely the ego itself.

    Acceptance is the only freedom because acceptance is unconditional. The false will go away on its own. When you reject or ignore the power of clinging to yourself grows. Accept and where can it hide?
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    ego is just thinking. ego tries to take over anything as its own, but it is just habitual thinking in that there is no agent, 'ego'. ego is just clouding us and all we have to do is notice the thinking as thinking. it is ok to have plenty of ego. it gives you a strong oportunity to notice it as ego. the course layers are first dealt with. the subtle layers are very difficult because we don't notice them. and we are affected by this subtle thinking clouding us with confusion and malice.
  • upekkaupekka Veteran
    Hyper-analysis causes paralysis.


    you make me laugh federica

    :)
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