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Gods and Idols
Howdy,
I'm new to Buddhism and have been (trying to anyways) educating myself on my off-time when work and other activities don't eat up my spare time. After having a discussion with a couple of people from my philosophy class, the question came up if Buddhist believe in a God?
Correct me if I'm wrong but do Buddhist believe in a God or Gods? From my reading, I know that Buddhist believe that one can be born into a realm where Gods dwell (as judged by karma collected from the past) but how do Buddhist view these "Gods"? Are they powerful beings? Do they simply exist on a different plane of existence, or "realm," where they are not subject by the same rules as us?
Another question from my friends -- who know even less than I do about Buddhism -- was concerning idols (our philosophy class is on the Old Testament, so the subject naturally revolved around this and God). My friends were confused when I said that Buddhist don't worship idols (again, correct me if I'm wrong); but this also confuses me because from my reading, it was said that the Buddha didn't want an idol to be made of him as it would distract people from the path -- yet there are statues and many artworks done around the Buddha, which I've always assumed was just to pay respect to Buddha.
I'm new to Buddhism and have been (trying to anyways) educating myself on my off-time when work and other activities don't eat up my spare time. After having a discussion with a couple of people from my philosophy class, the question came up if Buddhist believe in a God?
Correct me if I'm wrong but do Buddhist believe in a God or Gods? From my reading, I know that Buddhist believe that one can be born into a realm where Gods dwell (as judged by karma collected from the past) but how do Buddhist view these "Gods"? Are they powerful beings? Do they simply exist on a different plane of existence, or "realm," where they are not subject by the same rules as us?
Another question from my friends -- who know even less than I do about Buddhism -- was concerning idols (our philosophy class is on the Old Testament, so the subject naturally revolved around this and God). My friends were confused when I said that Buddhist don't worship idols (again, correct me if I'm wrong); but this also confuses me because from my reading, it was said that the Buddha didn't want an idol to be made of him as it would distract people from the path -- yet there are statues and many artworks done around the Buddha, which I've always assumed was just to pay respect to Buddha.
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Comments
These realms are allegorical, and represent Mind-states.
so many eminent scholars agree, anyway. I agree too.....
they are not real, physical, tangible realms, but mental conditions we all visit at one time or another.
the question is - which one will you be "living in" at the time you die?
Statues are man-made, not Buddha made.
The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist. He wasn't anything. Other humans elevated him to different states, but he was just a man, like you and me.
Statues do not a god make.
we create statues of people out of reverence, respect and recognition.
But that doesn't make them any better - or worse - than anybody else.
But one thing was certain. Buddha did not teach about a creator god, which meant that it was useless to our own enlightenment. Buddha taught about life: that life is dukkha, that the source of the dukkha is our own delusions and grasping, there is a remedy for dukkha, and then Buddha taught the methods to remove dukkha.
Some traditions of Buddhism teach that Buddha taught the 6 realms of existence (Gods, Titans, Humans, Animals, Hungry Ghosts, Hell realms) are literal realms. This interpretation would place the conventional understanding of gods in a realm of existence where they would still be ruled by the laws of Karma. They would still experience dukkha, and go through, birth, old age, sickness and death, just like all the other beings in the other realms.
Some traditions teach that Buddha taught the 6 realms of existence are metaphorical realms, and they best describe the different state of minds we experience. For example, we sometimes feel we are in hell when we are so angry we don't know what to do with that anger. Or we sometimes feel like gods when everything goes so well with our lives we feel we can do anything.
Concerning the statues of BUddha and Buddhist deities, the main idea of these statues is to remind us of our own potential to be just like them. They too were once human, and had to go through the regular hardships we all as humans endure. But they persevered and managed to achieve what the Buddha achieved, and it's a reminder that we, too, can be just like them if we put in the effort.
Now, in regard to believing in god (or God), there are also many variations of belief among people who consider themselves Buddhist. I believe in God. To not believe in God seems to me to be illogical. I know other Buddhists here in the States who believe in God, and when I visited and lived in Thailand I knew quite a few Thai Buddhists who believed in God. Yet, I also know that is not mainstream Buddhist thinking...although in conversations I had with a couple of Buddhist monks, their belief was that since the existence of God/a god was not provable, Buddhists didn't concern themselves with it (which is a lot different than saying there is no God).
Then there's the stance that Frederica took -- about the gods in Buddhist scriptures. And of course there are multiple heavens and hells, etc. Okay, that's fine. Show me a little evidence. But Buddhists who believe that...fine...they have that freedom to do so.
And then there are the Buddhists who see Buddhism as a philosophy and not a religion, who don't think much about the god/God, heaven/heavens and hell/hells issue.
So here's my point. You have decide what you believe, realizing that no matter what you believe in, no one here is going to excommunicate you!
But generally, Buddhists can believe whatever they want. Buddhist is relatively non-dogmatic.
As for the other questions, yes some Buddhists believe in Gods and Demons and such, some don't. Some Christians believe in ghosts and demons and angels, which are only minor gods or heavenly beings as Buddhists would define them. Some don't. That says more about the universal way people approach their beliefs and religion than Buddhism in particular.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deva_(Buddhism)
"A deva (देव Sanskrit and Pāli) in Buddhism is one of many different types of non-human beings who share the characteristics of being more powerful, longer-lived, and, in general, living more contentedly than the average human being."
A wealthy person living in comfort would be more like a deva than other humans. [Jeffrey thought]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desire_realm#God_Realm_.28Blissful_State.29
God Realm (Blissful State)
Main article: Deva (Buddhism)
"The Deva realm is the realm of bliss. The disadvantage of this realm is that things are so very comfortable there, that these beings completely neglect to work towards enlightenment. Instead they gradually use up the good karma they had previously accumulated, and so they subsequently fall to a lower rebirth.
The Deva realm is sometimes also referred to as the gods' realm, because its inhabitants are so powerful within their own realm, that compared to humans, they resemble the gods of Greek or Roman mythology. However, while the Devas may be referred to as gods, they are not immortal, omniscient, nor omnipotent, and they do not act as creators or judges at death, so they are notably very distinct from the monotheistic Western concept of God."
Thank you -- I've found these forums very helpful.
But the OP seems hitherto satisfied with the responses.
I would however, personally caution him on using said information as an anti-Christian hitting-stick, though.
Arguing with Christians - as many of us know - is a ball-game best avoided.
So, a person switches between the realms -- which I've read briefly about before -- based on Karma. I suppose this is attributed to different schools of thought for Buddhism or just simply personal thoughts but there are articles I've read where there's no such thing as "bad" karma, and others which says there is.
From the way that it sounds, it's almost as if Karma was a sort of currency/thing of possession to either ascend to the higher realms for the Demi-Deva's and the Deva to the "lower" realm of animals, ghosts, and hell-beings. What I understand so far is that Karma is some sort of cosmic force design to keep one in check based on actions performed in this life or in past lives; so by merely collecting "good" karma one can ascend to become a Deva? A "god"?
Does that help at all?