Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
EIGHT FOLD PATH.?!?!
Okay it's finally time in my practice to consider the eight fold path..
what is it? right speech, action, livelihood, concentration, uhhh conduct? uhhh I don't know the rest..
help me out here
what is it? right speech, action, livelihood, concentration, uhhh conduct? uhhh I don't know the rest..
help me out here
0
Comments
I could google everything , but somethings I like having told to me, and I like to discuss them..
it is divided in 3 areas:
Wisdom:
Correct Understanding
Correct Intention
Ethical conduct:
Correct Speech
Correct Action
Correct Livelihood
Meditation:
Correct Mindfulness
Correct Meditation
right view is seeing whats in front of you.
right effort? 'whats important to you?'
right action 'do the right thing'
right speach 'speak kindly and carefully'
right livelyhood 'keep your nose clean'
right concentration 'let go'
right mindfulness 'whats stopping me? What strand do I need to cut?'
right thinking 'thoughts self liberate. Muddy water let stand clears' 'I need not identify with my thoughts'
what do you think?
1st Division: Wholesome Moral Conduct has to do with doing good deeds and abandon bad ones. ( *proper livelihood, *words, *and action)
-For example, purity in words, thoughts, and action
- Generosity and metta
2nd Division: Developing Contentment and serenity
-Being fully in the moment in daily life or activities ( mindfulness practice)
-Meditation
3rd Division: Wisdom
-Dhamma study or just listen to dhamma talk
-The arising of direct insight from within
Hi. I would start with trying to get Right Understanding of the Three Marks of Existence as these are the starting point; they condition all changes.
Spiny
What longing is this which wishes for the 8fold path? Thats where I would start. The longing is more reliable than the 8fold path itself in my opinion. In fact the 8fold path is wisdom gleaned from the realisation of that longing. It has to be a living wisdom in order for it to be a living 8fold path. Thus the starting point is the living yearning. You can tell when something makes sense. But then it goes away and and 'life' keeps moving. You sort of go with things but you cannot predict where it is going it has its own energy of life. We have these very real responsibilities that are demanding. Problems and so forth. But we need only play with the energies. Who knows what will happen? Something could come out of nothing.
The way i see the 8 fold path is *Skillfull*
Skillful view
Skillful thinking
Skillful Speech
Skillful Action
Skillful effort
skillful Livelihood
skillful Mindfulness
skillful Meditation
Everything in life is about doing things Skillfully..Skillful action so you dont get into trouble. Skillful speech so you dont mix up your words and hurt someone by accident..etc etc..There isnt a *RIGHT* way to do things. Just an skillful or unskillful way.
Is it WRONG to smoke or drink??? I believe it isnt? But is it Unskillful? YES, because you can cause damage to yourself and others. But its not WRONG to drink. Just unskilful....etc etc
no... correct effort is missing.
IMO, it's not rocket science. Just read the directions and follow them as best you can. The 8FP is one of the simplest parts of the Buddha's teaching and it should stay that way.
this^^
we should want every degree on the compass to be there..
i have an idea, tell me ur own version of the path... maybe its only a 4 or 5 fold path... ?
mine would be : right intention, right action, right reaction, ?
its the super ultra noble trident path of nobleness and ultrasuperness
n
briefly and for convenience, these are the eight dimensions of the path (note that these are simplified somewhat and that part of right view includes the refinement of understanding these things)
1 right view includes:
- an understanding of the four noble knowledges (aka "truths", no simple task, btw)
- confidence that pursuing the path works (at least as a working hypothesis at first - confirmed faith requires experience of good results that will accrue)
- abandoning wrong views (such as theories about the self, denial of kamma (skt: karma), and others -> note the possiblity for more investigation here ..)
- also includes (important) non-attachment to _views_; this is the middle way - even the dhamma is one day to be transcended, but _not_ until one has reached the end of the path, so to speak. an aspect of this is that it should not become
a point of contention which would be a hindrance.
2 right intention/resolve is primarily the sincere resolve to follow the path. this also has the aspect of intending and endeavoring to develop beneficial and skillful mental habits and to abandon harmful and unskillful habits (note: this implies learning what each of those would be ..basically avoiding anything that leads to ill-will, greed, or delusion and cultivating the opposites. _how_ one does this is the essence of dhamma )
3 right speech is speech that is not divisive, not deliberately confrontational, true (ie, abandoning lying) and not unnecessary (eg, idle chatter and gossip)
4. right action is non-violence, not stealing, not engaging in promiscuous or forced sex, refraining from intoxicants which cloud the mind and judgment ...
5. right livelihood - this varies according to position (lay person or monk) and tradition. basically any form of work that does not support or make possible the factors in right action are generally the rule - eg, not dealing in alcohol or drugs or weapons .. opinions differ; i recommend using the other factors
to inform this one with honest common sense.
6. right effort is the effort to guard against unskillfull habits, abandon those that have arisen, cultivate skillful habits and maintain, nourish and strenghten those that exist. (implies learning what is "skillful"). on another level this means tuning the effort to progress to be not to much and not to little ..
7. right concentration - this refers to "samadhi" or single minded focus of attention
8. right mindfulness - this refers to a broader ongoing attention and remembrance of the task at hand in contemplative practice, in more general terms remembering the aspects of the path (esp. sila) in daily life as guidelines and attending to the facts of experience and the effects of actions, etc.
eh ... very simplified, might be errors - i recommend checking.
i hope this helps you to move towards release and peace of heart.
I have faith or...rather 'confidence', in the teachings (and also in my own understanding of my own learnings)
but im still stuck in this realm of craving + attachment = suffering...
it's like i'm a butterfly stuck in a tar pit..
it's a type of heavy slavery i'm stuck in..probably the HEAVIEST type..
how can i overthrow such a powerful government? it's self-slavery! does that make sense?
I can see it as clear as day, but IT defends itself against me!
maybe that's why sangha is important.. i can't defeat this enemy on my own, its tougher than me and smarter, I will look to join a buddhist community near me, so that i can have powerful allies to help me (teachers, and classmates) hmmm what u think?
He who conquers others is strong; He who conquers himself is mighty.
Lao Tzu
For a man to conquer himself is the first and noblest of all victories.
Plato
Rule your mind or it will rule you
Horace
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self.
Aristotle
He conquers who conquers himself.
Latin proverb
Who is a hero? He who conquers his urges
The Talmud
Free your mind and your ass will follow
George Clinton
Keep on fighting, it's all we can do.
"It is through the influence of a good friend that a disciple is led along the Noble Eightfold Path to release from all suffering." (SN 45:2)
in the company of like minded and hopefully more experienced practitioners dhamma will be an acceptable topic and therefor the subject of attention more frequently.
there is also a degree of social approval and support - this is fine, it leverages a hindrance in service of the task. in fact, dhamma in general terms amounts to just this - how to use the dynamics of mind we seek liberation from to achieve that liberation. thus, a social context which allows some self-esteem in the work of practice will be helpful - its a difficult task, use the factors skillfully to benefit the progress.
another observation; i have noted success with this approach to craving (tanha) - i choose a habitual desire (say, looking at the opposite sex, sort of "fishing" ..) and focus on trying to catch when the impulse arises and then simply not following the impulse. then (important), i notice and take pleasure in the release of energy that is released that would have been used in the action - after a time this becomes more pleasing and fulfilling than giving in to the habitual desire and satisfying it.
continue - the mere fact that you notice and consider these things is progress. in fact this (noting and analysis of internal dynamics) is an essential factor: dhamma-vicaya. remain sensitive to the pleasing results of the efforts and this will help to build the momentum.
That is no good. The lovingkindness practice aims to love yourself through whatever indulgence or repression. It reverses the negativity and that allows you to see more clearly. Its the clarity you need to break free. The courage to feel the bright pain (craving) of that clarity. The lovingkindness is your shield in that battle.
I think its a lot like a letting go. There is a kind of diffusing and letting go and a coming to life. In a rhythm. When you are very caught up in a mental battle with yourself... Its very dry like a struggle or like walking on and on.
So you have a craving and it hits you like whoa you get a rush of how you can feel with that thing. Whoa! The practice is to have kindness for yourself through all the mentatation. Your going to have thoughts. Your bound to.
Its pretty much a given that 9/10 times your going to give in and indulge to the craving. So you might as well be kind. You sort of let go all the thinking. It gives you a power of clarity and you can feel wincing almost energy/feeling as you release from the on and on mentations and instead just watch your thoughts with lighthearted warmth.
So then you indulge and you stay compassionate. You try to enjoy it more! More mindful.
Through the whole thing. There is no in fact program to change. You just are more kind to yourself. It is different from dulling out and indulging. Thats not what I am talking of. I talk of coming more ALIVE.
There will come a point when feelings are just feelings and thoughts are just thoughts. With some clarity rather than debate comes about what you want in reference to cravings. A light easy clarity.
There is still the cravings but they are just feelings. You experiment with the kindness. You experiment waiting to have the craving and you one step at a time break the link to the craving. You are not afraid to feel the sensitivity of the craving. It is just energy and you are bright and kind towards yourself. You welcome the sin and the renunciation. Both are purified.
Part of it is patience in the dulldroms. With no wind. Part of it is rekindling the feeling of alive. Always easing up and letting yourself have space.
in any case, thanks for the thoughts - i think it helps to learn something of how others experience and conceive of practices.
with all possible respect and in hopes that learning, progress, a continuum of good things and benefit will accrue, i have a couple of thoughts:
reading your post i got more of a description of the development of equanimity (uppekha). interesting that you understand it the way you have described.
i have found it very beneficial to refine distinctions in states of being - this is one of the truly magical aspects of dhamma in my experience; it provides a detailed phenomenological guide to developing a more skillful understanding of the dynamics of subjective experience and action. simplified: a map of how the mind works, a manual for effective use.
metta (aka. lovingkindness, goodwill or (super) friendliness) is one of four states that can be identified, developed and strengthened - the bramha viharas or "heavenly states". they are, as suggested, very good as antidotes for certain kinds of problems and also generally very beneficial.
as this is a thread started by one (apparently) new to the path and dhamma i was thinking that a specific exercise might help and generating metta is a great place to begin - it is one of the easiest and most powerful practices. for people just starting simple specifics are frequently key. here is and example of a simple traditional exercise for cultivating metta:
two phrases are used, internally a bit like a prayer and a bit like a mantra:
may i be happy.
may i be peaceful.
it is ok to change the wording a little to make it meaningful - it is the sense, intention and feeling that are important. the practice is to simply repeat them inside (its ok to say them aloud but not necessary). simple. the intent is to begin to establish a habit of mind so that the thought and intention will eventually arise by itself, the repetition helps create a habit. a warm feeling of kindness may arise or not - it isn't important; this is a future directed intention so even if one is not happy now its ok. eventually the emotions will begin to follow. when that happens, believe me you will know so i won't try to describe it here.
this can be done formally - say 10 or 15 minutes in the morning or randomly throughout the day as one thinks of it. in some retreats this is the whole practice for a retreat. i like to do it when i am walking on the street ..
the next - and i want to stress, _very important_ step is this: once one has a little feeling of metta for oneself, begin to think of another person and "send" or wish the same for them. at first this is easiest using a good friend as the recipient (but not a romantic partner - reasons for this are too much to include here)
may soandso be happy
may soandso be peaceful
this begins to integrate the motion of mind with the world of experience and increase its ability to dissolve the hindrance of ill will. effectively it is training the mind to a habit of goodwill towards living beings (including oneself).
from there the next step, once one is fairly good at wishing well for a friend, is to think of a neutral person - this part is fascinating. it is common to find that in fact one rather likes someone that was previously just another person ..
the final and most challenging and powerful step is to do the same with a person that ... one doesn't like. or someone that is a problem, irritating, an enemy. this may require using the imagination, for imagining the person behind bars or something to make it possible to wish them well. here is where there is real work to do that is very powerful; persisting and working through the old habitual resistances will be very obvious with difficult people - steady application of intent will gradually dissolve these (kilesa) and clean the mind leaving a bright, clear, unattached and sincere affection that rises naturally and spontaneously without regard for return. speaking from experience - its magical beyond description.
a brief synopsis - i hope it is helpful and brings .. happiness and peace