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buddhism has teached me that everything is *mind* But can reality over power the mind????

edited June 2011 in Buddhism Basics
Lets say only us can make ourselves happy!!!

No one can hurt us!! HOWEVER, people can hurt us physically right??

Let's go back 100 years and a slave was getting hit, whipped and beaten. How could he live in the NOW how can he bring his mind to the present moment when the present moment is getting beaten and whipped. So my question is perhaps its not all just mind its also how others treat us aswell...

I know some of u are going to say its how he overcomes this bad time...but what about when its actually going on. Men beating wifes up. How can they live in the *now*

Any thoughts here ? Cheers x







Comments

  • Everything is not Mind according to Buddhism. Everything in your perception is your own minds creation according to Buddhism. Really, that platitude you mention in the title came from Western mistranslations. Even the Chittamatra (mind only) school of buddhism doesn't minimize everything to one great over mind. The teaching is much more nuanced than that.

    Everything is the elements and the play of the energy of sentient beings, all dependently originated, including the endless minds of sentient beings... all equally empty of inherent existence but interconnected with everything else.

    As far as your question goes on being whipped, one should act appropriately. Which arises dependent upon the circumstance and can not be judged from without concerning such extreme situations. Also, one cannot learn dharma during certain circumstances if you haven't already done so. Now if this person has already learned the dharma and is undergoing torture, he/she can apply the teaching in that moment in order to overcome attachment.

    Much like Garchen Rinpoche who was imprisoned by the Chinese for 20 years after they attacked Tibet, he underwent all sorts of hardships and torture. He practiced compassion towards his oppressors, and repeated various mantras and practices that he learned over his years previous to the Chinese invasion within the solitude of his own mind during those 20 years, deepening and deepening their inner meaning and resonance within the field of his own mind.

    When he was finally released from prison, he came to the West, he is very much an enlightened Siddha master now. He lives in Arizona.

    Anyway... Maybe this all gives you food for thought?
  • edited June 2011
    Federica knows the specifics of this, but it reminds me of her putting forth the example of a Tibetan monk that was held prisoner by the Chinese some 30 years or so and went through some pretty serious torture. Maybe someone else who reads this post will remember his name. He held up very well despite what happened to him. Then of course there's Thich Quang Duc who set himself on fire during the Vietnam War as a protest and apparently remained in meditation position until he died.

    Of course they were no doubt accomplished meditators- but even a little familiarity with these techniques might help the people in your scenario somewhat.

    You do present a rather difficult scenario. I would say mindfulness could help somewhat, but after all, we're only human.

    (Posted at the same time as VH. Garchen Rinpoche.)

  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    edited June 2011
    Lets say only us can make ourselves happy!!!

    No one can hurt us!! HOWEVER, people can hurt us physically right??

    Let's go back 100 years and a slave was getting hit, whipped and beaten. How could he live in the NOW how can he bring his mind to the present moment when the present moment is getting beaten and whipped. So my question is perhaps its not all just mind its also how others treat us aswell...

    I know some of u are going to say its how he overcomes this bad time...but what about when its actually going on. Men beating wifes up. How can they live in the *now*

    Any thoughts here ? Cheers x

    I'm not sure what you're asking. A man being whipped is very much living in the NOW at that moment, as is the man doing the whipping. Believe me, they are both very focused on what's happening in the moment. In a similar vein, a man beating his wife is very focused on the beating he's doing, also. And the person being beaten is very much focused on the NOW as she tries to block the fists that are pounding her.

    It's the mental conditions that lead up to and infect the mind like a disease during something like this that cause the suffering. Mindfulness is but a tool, not the same thing as enlightenment. Mindfulness is necessary to develop a clear mind. All the living in the NOW does without the clear mind is focus your desires or anger on your immediate actions. A junkie is very focused on the NOW as he cooks up his dope. But, it's a mind contaminated by craving.

    Being mindful is the first step to a clear mind. The next step is examining this current moment for defilements and begin rooting them out. Does this help?



  • Lets say only us can make ourselves happy!!!

    No one can hurt us!! HOWEVER, people can hurt us physically right??

    Let's go back 100 years and a slave was getting hit, whipped and beaten. How could he live in the NOW how can he bring his mind to the present moment when the present moment is getting beaten and whipped. So my question is perhaps its not all just mind its also how others treat us aswell...

    I know some of u are going to say its how he overcomes this bad time...but what about when its actually going on. Men beating wifes up. How can they live in the *now*

    Any thoughts here ? Cheers x

    I'm not sure what you're asking. A man being whipped is very much living in the NOW at that moment, as is the man doing the whipping. Believe me, they are both very focused on what's happening in the moment. In a similar vein, a man beating his wife is very focused on the beating he's doing, also. And the person being beaten is very much focused on the NOW as she tries to block the fists that are pounding her.

    It's the mental conditions that lead up to and infect the mind like a disease during something like this that cause the suffering. Mindfulness is but a tool, not the same thing as enlightenment. Mindfulness is necessary to develop a clear mind. All the living in the NOW does without the clear mind is focus your desires or anger on your immediate actions. A junkie is very focused on the NOW as he cooks up his dope. But, it's a mind contaminated by craving.

    Being mindful is the first step to a clear mind. The next step is examining this current moment for defilements and begin rooting them out. Does this help?



    Uv misunderstood me then. It is said that if u bring your attention to the very present then its impossible to be unhappy.

    So if one is going through hell in the *present moment* how does he be happy in this moment?







  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran


    So if one is going through hell in the *present moment* how does he be happy in this moment?

    By not craving for something else.

  • It's not about being happy all the time. It's about being completely what the situation calls for you to be. Clear mind, clear situation, clear response. You can't do that unless the focus of your attention is on the immediate situation.

    If you insist on wanting to be happy when the situation calls for sadness, then you're not looking at the world with a clear mind.


  • edited June 2011
    Cinorjer is right. If you are always wanting to be happy and seeking pleasure - especially when experiencing hell in the present moment, then you are not seeing things clearly. I also think the Sallatha Sutta pretty much answers some of your questions...
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    I think Vajraheart explained the details well. I think it maybe better to think of it like 10% is what happens to us and 90% is our reaction to it instead of 100% mind.
  • Uv misunderstood me then. It is said that if u bring your attention to the very present then its impossible to be unhappy.

    So if one is going through hell in the *present moment* how does he be happy in this moment?
    By understanding impermanence. Just think about it: If you feel hurt now does it mean you will feel the exact same hurt every single time? If someone slaps you hard does it mean you will feel the stinging pain forever? The pain will pass, so will the shock. So will the anger.

    So whenever something bad happens to you physically, emotionally, mentally, etc., think "This will pass. It's not going to be permanent. The pain will be gone soon." It does wonders to your mind. For one you won't get depressed easily.

    I also find it helpful to think "If I'm suffering now, I'm sure the other party is suffering as well." Sometimes the other party may be forced to hurt you by another person. Sometimes it's the law. Sometimes it's not on purpose. Sometimes there are underlying reasons which we cannot see that compels the other person to act the way he did. Have compassion for him/her. Have compassion for yourself.
  • I thought about this subject earlier this morning. How is Buddhism helpful to someone who is experiencing the most extreme suffering? To ease their suffering somehow they need to come to a realization that their mind can experience things separately from their "self", and that they should only create good karma from now on. This is just my opinion.
  • The opposite of happiness is sadness. Joy has no opposite.
    Charlotte Joko Beck
  • @Buddhacoe I don't think the purpose of life is too be happy 100% of the time. There are appropriate moments to be unhappy, and there are ways to resolve issues that develop from suffering, and ways to survive suffering. You should realize now that blanket truths have faults, like "accepting the present will always bring happiness". I see this pertaining better to situations where the suffering occurs because of the mind dwelling on past problems or future worries (or maybe when you are having a headache with no aspirin nearby... accepting the pain and not fighting it will help reduce the suffering). But accepting the now does not apply to all contexts. For instance, when I witnessed abuse on my siblings as a child my mind would race with fear and my thoughts were "Run and hide, or yell fight and save her, or distract him!" Accepting my "present moment" was not going to bring me, my sister or father happiness. When I was younger I hid, as I got older I confronted him and blocked her behind me, and attempted to calm him or play mediator. This was an appropriate response in the given context, not a blanket truth. Focusing on the present moment brought me happiness as an adult whenever I found myself dwelling on painful memories of these times. I had to remind myself that in my present moment, my sister is a safe and well adjusted person, and my father is a kind and remorseful person, and I am a happy person who is safe and well. You'll have to decide for yourself if advice you have learned is appropriate in a given context. That's exactly why I like Buddhism... it always allows for discrepancy and free thought. You should always be your own master.
  • Here is my favorite account from a book about life in a WW2 death camp.

    Perhaps there came a day for some of us when we saw the
    same film again, or a similar one. But by then other pic­
    tures may have simultaneously unrolled before one's inner
    eye; pictures of people who attained much more in their
    lives than a sentimental film could show. Some details of a
    particular man's inner greatness may have come to one's
    mind, like the story of the young woman whose death I
    witnessed in a concentration camp. It is a simple story.
    There is little to tell and it may sound as if I had invented
    it; but to me it seems like a poem.

    This young woman knew that she would die in the next
    few days. But when I talked to her she was cheerful in spite
    of this knowledge. "I am grateful that fate has hit me so
    hard," she told me. "In my former life I was spoiled and
    did not take spiritual accomplishments seriously." Pointing
    through the window of the hut, she said, "This tree here is
    the only friend I have in my loneliness." Through that
    window she could see just one branch of a chestnut tree,
    and on the branch were two blossoms. "I often talk to this
    tree," she said to me. I was startled and didn't quite know
    how to take her words. Was she delirious? Did she have
    occasional hallucinations? Anxiously I asked her if the tree
    replied. "Yes." What did it say to her? She answered, "It
    said to me, 'I am here—I am here—I am life, eternal life.' "

    Man's Search for Meaning
    Viktor E. Frankl

    Unlike the young woman, we have been shown the the way to the transcendent.

    Bhikkhus, I will teach you the far shore and the path leading to the far shore.
    Bhikkhus, I will teach you the unaging and the path leading to the unaging.
    Bhikkhus, I will teach you the deathless and the path leading to the deathless.

  • I thought about this subject earlier this morning. How is Buddhism helpful to someone who is experiencing the most extreme suffering? To ease their suffering somehow they need to come to a realization that their mind can experience things separately from their "self", and that they should only create good karma from now on. This is just my opinion.
    @santhisouk

    The Story of "San Juan De La Cruz" or Saint John of the Cross is very good for this. It's a very moving story, his "Dark Night of the Soul."

    It's very inspiring for anyone interested in spirituality.
  • VajraheartVajraheart Veteran
    edited July 2011
    @Buddhacoe I don't think the purpose of life is too be happy 100% of the time. There are appropriate moments to be unhappy, and there are ways to resolve issues that develop from suffering, and ways to survive suffering. You should realize now that blanket truths have faults, like "accepting the present will always bring happiness".
    @Malachy12

    You are right, to a degree. I have also had a harsh reality in my past. The teaching is about infusing everything with a transcendent bliss. You are talking about a conditional joy, born of circumstance. As you go deeper in meditation, you will realize the happiness switch, and this switch is far above anything that is body made. You will cry out of sadness for loved ones who pass on, and you will be angered by situations that are unjust, but you will always be infused with this energy of bliss, a transcendent joy that has nothing to do with the body/brain complex and it's situations. This has to be discovered first hand. Only then, out of this sense of bliss of neither attachment, nor detachment, as these are dualistic notions, you will be more appropriate in situations, even if others don't act appropriately around it. You will have total presence.

    This is very subtle, the joy that a Buddha talks about is not that which is based upon external conditions.
  • "Let's go back 100 years and a slave was getting hit, whipped and beaten. How could he live in the NOW how can he bring his mind to the present moment when the present moment is getting beaten and whipped. So my question is perhaps its not all just mind its also how others treat us aswell..."

    I guarantee you that if a slave who was getting beaten and whipped brought himself fully into the moment he would realize the necessity of escape. He would also realize the necessity of doing so via non-violent means. He would realize that he is the master of his own destiny and that he can not be whipped or beaten unless he first allows himself to be powerless. He would also see that it is his attachments that keep him imprisoned in the situation he is in-his desire for a family, food, a bed, the comfort of not being beaten or the comfort of not being in danger of being killed for trying to escape-all the things that the slave masters are lording over him in order to keep him stuck in his predicament. It is not the way he is being treated that keeps him stuck, it is his willful surrender to it and the resulting self disempowerment. However, once one fully accepts the total nature of being, suffering and all, he might also see that he can allow himself to be beaten without suffering the aversion to the pain. However if he Loves himself, which all beings do in their natural state of being, he must not allow the abuse to continue indefinitely, and thus he enters into the necessity of escape.
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