Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Graffiti and Vandalism, what can be done?
Mr_Serenity
Veteran
There is a nice older Hispanic man who is my next door neighbor, he drives a yellow food truck for his business. He helps import all types of fruits and vegetables to several markets. Several tropical varieties from around the globe. He has given my dad free produce before, so he is a very friendly man just trying to make a humble living. In the past his truck has been vandalized by wannabe gangsters writing all over it just for fun. They tend to be mostly kids without any respect. Usually from the ages of 14-19. Those are actually the worse. Because they tend to shoot first and talk later. Or in this case the mans truck they vandalized was just an object of entertainment to them. They have no conscious due to lack of parenting and no humility being taught on to them.
The signature of L.A.s bad parenting, bad schooling, and lack of jobs is all around. Graffiti on almost every block of the city, except Santa Monica, and Beverly Hills due to the class division they clean up quicker and have better education in those nicer parts. My dad is a security guard so he tried to check/watch over this guys truck occasionally to stop it from being sprayed again. But my dad nor I can't watch over it all the time. They got to it again. This time they sprayed it on all sides with red graffiti. I can tell they had fun with it and they considered it entertainment, by the way the writing looks. It actually didn't look as bad as I thought it would, but it's still terrible.
I feel bad for the guy with his truck, and so does my dad. He told me the story and for me not to get involved. But it's times like this where I start to think about street justice. Where I start to think we need someone to put on a mask and deliver some ass whoopins Batman style lol. 5 minutes with a good beating to these kids and some hard words to season it all up and they would never pick up a spray bottle again. I would do it if I could get away with it, but it probably wouldn't be worth it.
So what can actually be done? This has happened several times now. I'm considering writing, or typing up several posters to put around my community about why graffiti is wrong and how all it does is show how low class they're by destroying the image of their own neighborhood. But I would need to word it in a way that actually gets into their heads rather than gets them angry. Because if it only gets them angry and doesn't make them think, it won't work. But that's what I'm considering right now, to put up a bunch of fliers about why they should not vandalize their own neighborhood and neighbors.
Any other suggestions on what can be done about this and ways for me to possibly word the flier are welcome thanks.
The signature of L.A.s bad parenting, bad schooling, and lack of jobs is all around. Graffiti on almost every block of the city, except Santa Monica, and Beverly Hills due to the class division they clean up quicker and have better education in those nicer parts. My dad is a security guard so he tried to check/watch over this guys truck occasionally to stop it from being sprayed again. But my dad nor I can't watch over it all the time. They got to it again. This time they sprayed it on all sides with red graffiti. I can tell they had fun with it and they considered it entertainment, by the way the writing looks. It actually didn't look as bad as I thought it would, but it's still terrible.
I feel bad for the guy with his truck, and so does my dad. He told me the story and for me not to get involved. But it's times like this where I start to think about street justice. Where I start to think we need someone to put on a mask and deliver some ass whoopins Batman style lol. 5 minutes with a good beating to these kids and some hard words to season it all up and they would never pick up a spray bottle again. I would do it if I could get away with it, but it probably wouldn't be worth it.
So what can actually be done? This has happened several times now. I'm considering writing, or typing up several posters to put around my community about why graffiti is wrong and how all it does is show how low class they're by destroying the image of their own neighborhood. But I would need to word it in a way that actually gets into their heads rather than gets them angry. Because if it only gets them angry and doesn't make them think, it won't work. But that's what I'm considering right now, to put up a bunch of fliers about why they should not vandalize their own neighborhood and neighbors.
Any other suggestions on what can be done about this and ways for me to possibly word the flier are welcome thanks.
0
Comments
investigate the possibility of opening a school for graffiti artists who could turn their skills to inner city design, like Banksy does. Or become graphic artists, or tattoo experts.
Give them a point to their expression.
They're bored, and want to make a mark on this world.
Instead of 'Whoopins batman style' think of working with them. Not against them.
.
I don't want to be a door mat. I want to make a positive change, so that this can be stopped. Something that can be done within a few weeks or less even.
When I suggested the cleaning, I didn't realize that they would redo the attack. Is this gang related for territory?
there's a difference between that and vandalism (damage of property).
weapons are tools... use with care.
Edit: Even the senseless destruction of something can be considered art, doesn't make it any less vandalism.
what if it is public space?
This is why I suggested they might actually need a whoopin batman style to put them in line. I don't know if the police is actually enough. They never come in time.
@Vincezni Public spaces are hard issues, because technically they are owned and operated for the enjoyment of the public. I think the proper channels would be through whomever administers the public space. Don't get me wrong, I really like graffiti (good art, not garbage). We have some great walls here in santa fe, nm that have huge murals, all done with consent.
Some homeboy said something like this, I can't remember da exact words know wat im sayin? :
"It's much easier to conquer the world than to conquer yourself."
delete this one please! Double post!!!
It's possible to help yourself and other people at the same time. Nobody ever has their shit all sorted out. We just do the best we can.
Not really threaten openly but just tough. Let them know that theres more problems to it possibly for them.
At least give them a chance before beating someone up. And keep in mind that you don't want to lose your life over a van. I know I have seen a lot of movies but I have no doubt that a kid could kill you if they had a firearm. Or possibly a knife with surprise and luck. Don't get killed over a van. Can this guy park his van somewhere theres more police etc? At least temporarily? A walk is better than a painted van and better than getting killed.
Install grill-protected motion activated flood lights where the truck is parked. Rig up videorecording and/or sound equipment and figure out who/what you're dealing with. It's not rocket science. Even a basic sound-activated digital student voice recorder can surprisingly pick up a heck of a lot... like names. Learn some serious security technology and you'll have yourself an excellent career future.
Forget about "ass whoopin." Those kids have known that since the day they were born. All of them carry buckknives, and most of them carry guns because they have been drug runners (often for their parents) since grammar school and that is their protection, along with their homeboys watching their backs. They also know where your parents live and you don't know where they live. Don't ever forget that. The secret to survival in the jungle is ya gotta know far more about them than they ever know about you, and they are far more than one up on you, so for gosh sakes your parents live next door, don't be stupid.
It's not about art or self expression, it's all about power and flaunting power.
It's about lookin' bigger than somebody else.
How you beat it is by making the "lookin' bigger" routine land them in a position where they look smaller.... that way there's no payoff.
How do you make someone look smaller?
The only flier that would be effective would be a flier with a photo on it of them spray painting the van with the message "Can you identify any of these people? Please phone the L.A.P.D. crime investigation unit at..."
Facing a judge on multiple counts of vandalism, with everybody on the block suing them and/or their parents/guardians for property damage and presenting an accumulated truckload of evidence to prove it would definitely make them look smaller.
Some are purely in it for the thrill of vandalism or to mark their territory (as in most gang graffiti). For example, in the Washington, D.C. area for quite a few years there was a graffitist who struck public buildings, particularly schools. People said the same thing some of you are saying -- he's just a frustrated artist, la da da da da. I disagreed from the beginning, because his graffiti was lacking artistic merit of any degree. Of course, once he switched from doing primarily graffiti on schools to throwing Molotov cocktails into school buildings on weekend nights (including a science lab in the school where I was principal), people suddenly changed their tune. Clearly not an artist. And BTW, they eventually caught him and he confessed to both the graffiti and the Molotov cocktails...so it was the same guy.
The whole thing is controlled by various inhabitants of various posh palaces up the hill on the wealthy side of town. There's a lot of money in the street drug trade. There is enough money in it to buy and sell police and public officials too, beware. There is also a lot of money in financing gangs to deliberately destroy neighborhoods so that land developers can buy the land up cheap and build condominiums and make gargantuan money in the process. It's called "investing in a slum."
Photographically document and analyze the insignias.
Photographically document and analyze those same insignias all over the neighborhood and note the boundaries of their territory where they get over sprayed with competing colors and competing insignias.
The truck probably does business in a rival territory and by spray painting it they are flaunting their flag in that territory without putting themselves at personal risk, although they may well be putting the truck driver at significant personal risk, particularly at night among the young stupid unprofessional ranks of wannabe hangers on of rival gangs.
Boundaries change all the time and at the boundaries where rival insignias suddenly start overspraying each other, watch out for the crossfire because it kills innocent people all the time, often young children playing in the street because playing in the street is safer than anywhere else in spite of the cars.
As for authentic "graffiti art"... those people hang out by the tracks hoping for a long-parked choice clean blank freight train car to decorate. Some of them have genuine talent that may be channeled into public wall mural projects, and genuine public wall mural projects on freeway underpasses and such does help.
Thanks for the history lesson, I've actually been right in the middle of a crips and blood showdown a few years ago. It was in a Denny's at 12 midnight. One side of the restaurant was all blue, and the other side was all red. It was split in half and segregated by color by several security guards. I could see many of the gang members were armed with guns that were poorly concealed and whispering to each other while we ate. It was the most surreal dinner I've ever had. I didn't hang around there too long lol.
But I could probably tell you more about the bloods and crips than you know yourself lol. I don't have to look up wiki, I just know how they roll. But this particular case of red graffiti on this yellow truck, in my opinion was not "blood" related. The bloods were originally created to stop the crips on crips violence, to counter that gang. So the people who were tired of the crips became the bloods.
This was done in the "jungle" basically South Central L.A.. You don't want to hang around there if you ever visit L.A.. It can literally be like a war zone on some days. It's very easy to spot their territory by the simple fact that they tend to show off their colors. In this case though, I live in West L.A. around Culver City. There are virtually no "real" crips and bloods there. The graffiti done on this car was done *before in the color black.
So this is just a case of kids without any respect doing it because they get a kick out of it. These kids might not even be real gang members, but more "wannabes"
One mans justice is always questionable to another. War is not always black and white, it tends to be grey. I value compassion highly, but at the same time I value honesty more than that. So I like to be true to myself and do what feels right. There are consequences in real life for people who think they can rub a tiger the wrong way.
This isn't about me though. Obviously I thought about taking justice into my own hands physically, but since it's not my truck and I haven't got that much support for doing it there is little point to do so. I'm still a bit lost on if there can be an effective solution for this that doesn't cost the victim much money.
Money is always an issue. I doubt the driver could afford high tech security, and the cops more then likely will not give a hand besides writing it up and patrolling the block like they usually do. This is why street justice can sometimes seem like the best option. Obviously that has to be done in a very clever way for it to work and for it to "teach a lesson".
There may be other clever ways to make a solution though. Someone suggested security, well since money is probably an issue and no one in this situation can afford it. I thought about bluffing security. Maybe if he puts up a sign on his truck that says "This truck is under 24/7 surveillance". (When it really isnt)
That will be enough to scare the offenders away. It's a funny idea, but it could work or it could actually back fire and attract people to piss on the wall that says please do not piss on (I've heard a story like that before).
I've also thought about telling him to park it on the other street behind this one (it's more peaceful). But he is an old guy, that makes me wonder if it be a "pride" dilemma. For it not to be right to make this elderly fellow walk that distance every day just so he can avoid his truck being written on.
With that said, there is a legitimate place in the world for urban street artwork... and that is transforming horrible urban ugliness into beautiful legitimate urban art.
An effective "urban art strategy" would be to airbrush that red mess on the truck into a fantastic red orange purple gold sunset, totally visually overwhelming their work but discreetly leaving just a visible sliver of their work buried in it on all sides. Being a "wannabe" is all about pride and lookin' good to somebody else, particularly the opposite sex... and so if any of their work were incorporated into a legitimate piece of art that indeed "looked good" their own pride might well prevent them from ever messing with that truck again. If these guys are truly "wannabes" it could be an effective strategy if you or your girlfriend happen to be good with an airbrush.
I would not consider these guys primarily wannabes. Wannabes are primarily concerned with impressing their friends with how fashionable/desirable/impressive they can make themselves to the opposite sex, primarily by flag waving, posing, and strutting. When it comes to impressing the opposite sex, their paint-the-truck trick is a real yawn, for which the best revenge would be yawning and driving it all over town until they are bored with being associated with such uncoolness.
Because these guys are engaging in some pretty expensive vandalism that can get them in trouble with the law, I wouldn't consider them wannabes as much as I would consider them probable lookouts and hangers-on, hoping for employment by trying to impress the lowest level professionals with petty acts of vandalism and bravado and suggestions of expansion of territory without risking their backsides.
I would say that the odds of them being young, flakey, stupid... and armed... lookouts and hangers on, with runners attached to them, are high. If they are out seeking employment by trying to impress their friends the professional runners... the single easiest way to do that (being young, flakey, and stupid) is of course to be as heavily armed as they can come up with.
That is a very dangerous combination to deal with...young, flakey, stupid, as heavily armed as they can come up with, and seeing to impress the professionals.
You'd be safer at the Denny's between the professionals sizing one another up in public where business as usual is business as usual, than among the stupid flakes on the streets playing their games and trying to impress.
As for security... security need not be expensive and high tech to be effective.
Spray paint does not stick well to things that are wet... (got a lawn hose and a cheap hose timer and a stick-it-in-the-lawn (or between the cracks in the concrete)-aim-and-fire sprinkler head? Set it to spray everything down at regular intervals. They've even got ones that are motion-sensitive that people use to keep deer out of their gardens in the middle of the night by blasting them with water). Spray paint does not stick as well to paint buried in many layers of wax. Trip threads and tin cans make a heck of a lot of noise and wake up neighborhood dogs and neighbors. Porch lights are easily replaced with motion control floodlights you can buy at any hardware store for about $60... appeal to the neighbors and take up a collection.... it would be for everyone's benefit to have a bit more security.
agree? disagree? unsure?
and so we have got public financing for our street artists, and we have got formerly ugly concrete transformed into a bright and cheerful People's Wall mural, where everyone got a little section of their own to do... and the best of the best went on to do a very large public commissioned urban artwork mural for the underpass.
We also had "The People's Sidewalk" all done in chalk. It was great and held up really well until repeated hard rain took it out. The colors you can get in chalk are much more vibrant on concrete than most paint on concrete. Chalk on concrete is wonderful and blends really well.
We also lay down in the street and did body outlines just like the police mark the site of dead bodies in crime scenes... as a peaceful protest against the "fashionable" violence of our day.
There is a place for urban street art... when the entire community participates it beautifies and builds community like nothing else.
you are describing a place were there's at least a sense of community...
It is never too early nor too late to start building community.
The truck may well serve to be the conversation piece that begins the conversations that begin building community.
I have not asked him if it has affected his business in a negative way. Hopefully not. But I'm sure he does not like it on the truck and would feel much better if the truck was without it, or even if something elegant was painted on top of the graffiti. But then even if something elegant was painted over the graffiti like a sunset, I would bet money that these kids would graffiti *over that probably with black spray paint.
I don't know if it's possible to live in peace with them. Only those who live in L.A. can really understand the psychology of these types of kids. They have no honor. They have no remorse for others. They cannot be reasoned with. They respect violence and power over anything else. That is why they need to be locked up, or have humility physically beaten into them. They will respect the power of that. The power of the law or the power of an effective vigilante.
Either that or good security. There are a lot of good suggestions on this thread about what can be done for security. I'll probably need to think it over and then tell my dad to suggest a few of them to him.
I don't agree with that totally. I think if they continue as is eventually they will be locked up or they will get killed by eachother or they will find God or something. I don't think its ethical to beat them. That isn't really necessary and there will always be more of them so you would have to make it 24/7 beatings and still it would accomplish nothing.
They're just kids like any other kids except for the fact that they started out in life as the unwanted "baggage" from "relationships" that began in motel rooms and ended in alcoholism, drug abuse, and screaming...
and they happened to grow up in the middle of a war zone, where the war came home.
Another time I was at the local mall at Christmas-time and saw one of our students coming down the mall with friends. If we had given an award for sleaziest student in the school, he would have won hands down. And, we had police information he was in MS-13, as well. He was with several friends, and based on clothing symbols and tattoo designs, they were pretty clearly gang members also. He walked up to me and very politely introduced his friend to, "This is Mr. Lynch. He's my assistant principal at my school. He's a good guy." And then politely introduced each of his friends. To be honest, they were far more polite than most of the white middle and upper class kids we had in our school. So any idea that all these gang members weren't raised right or all were "unwanted "baggage" from "relationships" that began in motel rooms and ended in alcoholism, drug abuse, and screaming...
and they happened to grow up in the middle of a war zone", is a lot of hooey. Yes, some were. Others simply made poor choices and they know better. Others hold down jobs in the daytime, but are involved in gang activity at night.
The issue we have been discussing is why vigilante "justice" (physical reprisal) might be more likely to get an individual (or an individual's family member) shot on the street when one is dealing with young flakey runners and hangers-on and not professionals.
If you have never seen someone shot on the street after confronting young flakey runners and hangers-on, you have no idea of what I am talking about.
Your depiction of them may fit some in gangs, but it does not fit many, at all. And furthermore, your description may work for many in Latino gangs, but it doesn't fit many who are in the Asian gangs, who were not born during the wars in SE Asia.
Additionally, what is really being discussed in this thread is "graffiti and vandalism -- what can be done."
anyway, the best way to stop it is to commission an actuall mural, or art piece. hopefully these tots will disrespecful as to tag over that.
ps. i'm not a graffer i just know a few