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In the Berzin Archives, he says, "Being able to have sexual contact without releasing semen is something needed when you practice the advanced stages of the completion stage [of the tantras]." He also goes into some detail of this nature in "How to Practice: The Way to a Meaningful Life" and "The Good Heart". The DL is full of surprises, lol !
Whatever appeals to your voyeuristic horniness :rolleyes:
Recently, a lama aggressively copulating with his students in Australia used reasoning such as your's as an excuse for his behaviour. This lama is a friend of HHDL.
This simply castes suspicion on HHDL that he is merely giving lip service to the sexual misconduct practised by llamas.
In theory, tantra is practiced with one's spouse exclusively. The reality for some is not that neat and tidy. I think this is where the comment made earlier, that in this tradition, sex is without attachments, comes in. One's consort is just a consort, someone to facilitate the practice. It's not really about sex, they say, it's a spiritual practice.
It is not a spiritual (liberation) practise at all because in the Mahayana traditions the women involved generally end up complaining. In short, they are hurt and feel disrespected. Making others feel hurt and disrespected is not a spiritual practise. Using others, for what you believe is a path to your own personal (Hinayana) enlightenment, is not something spiritual.
As for the origins of Tantra, it is certainly something practised with one's spouse. It is a Hindu practise for laypeople rather than some superstition about it leading to hightest enlightenment.
Does HHDL practise it? Is HHDL's enlightenment inferior?
Your post is just theoretical non-sense, just as aMatt, a mature man in age, has not overcome his craving, longing for, delight & attachment to sexual pleasure.
Zayl is basically a teenager with his first love. Naturally, he feels the "love" he does. But aMatt is a older man (appearing still caught up in teenage fantasies)
True trantra is like bondage and discipline. It is for the male to submit to the control of the woman (rather than making all kinds of sexual demands). It is not about horny voyeuristic men believing they are Cassanova.
How can placing butt onto floor increase awareness?
If sex always produces lust, how could it be wholesome? If it is not wholesome, why did Buddha suggest it for a householder?
Placing butt on floor stops the mental gyrations performed with the body. So when butt sits on floor, the lust clouding awareness & enslaving the mind is forced to rise into consciousness and then dissolve, leaving a clear light mind.
However, the Buddha suggest sex for householders because they did not have the inclination to be free of it. They did not have the inclination to place butt on the floor. As they are not free from lust, if they do not participate in sex, they will burn up inwardly with lust.
So, having sex with your horny partner can be an act of compassion, on that level.
However, that sex is going to lead to highest enlightenment, that is laughable.
Agree with your points DD, although I would not have made them in the same way. I would like only to add that meditation and celibacy do not have to be bedfellows .... ( mmm, .... thought to myself interesting choice of metaphor there, Andrea ... lol )
Hi, CityTheScribe I'd like to recommend a talk given by Gil Fronsdal on Audio Dharma called "Investigating Happiness" He talks about sensual desire and I think you might find what he says interesting.
And what's more you called my relationship with the girl I've known since first grade into question. Do you seek to cause offense good sir?
We all read about your courting/mating ritual months ago on this forum.
As for your recent post, you made it just sound like two horny people going for it.
Don't go blaming me for the impression you gave in your post.
You are describing the love of a pleasurable feeling & high as 'love'.
All the best
I feel terribly sorry to offend you in such a way then. You seem rather aggressive in attempting to establish your points however, and I would like to remind you that truthfully you are not speaking properly by automatically assuming that only you are right, and that I am sure you have hurt others besides me by your offensive comments. To be honest, I have met drunken barflys who are more courteous than you.
Perhaps I could have put what I said more... modestly. But I felt that talking straightforward was the better route. Tell me, have you ever felt the warmth of a woman? I am not trying to imply anything by this, but it seems you are entirely unable to understand where I am coming from. If that is the case then I will cease posting in this thread, as it would be a complete waste of my time. And I thought I was cynical. It just seems to me that mayhap you could still get your message across without using words that sting so much.
Not only that, but you have insulted my integrity, my girlfriend, my relationship with her, and my intelligence... If you are unable to reply to me in a manner befitting proper speech then i shall avoid talking to you in the future, for the sake of both of us.
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
The Buddha had sex before enlightenment. No mention of having sex after enlightenment. But that's not to say he definitely never had sex after enlightenment. He probably went to the toilet after enlightenment too, but no mention is made of that either. Just because it's not written, doesn't mean it didn't happen. But it doesn't mean it did, either.
You will absolutely hate yourself for not exploring sex when you get older. It's wonderful. I've never suffered because of some clinging... or what? Who knows... There might not be another life after this one, nobody knows. Don't pass it up... it's part of the mystery of being human and it's absolutely beautiful.
Wow, I can't believe DD took some of those posts as a defense of tantra! Those were merely factual answers to people's questions. The history of tantra, if you go back far enough, is not at all about practicing with one's spouse. But we are WAY off-topic here!
@ Zayl: don't mind DD. He's just the local troll. Don't feed him and he might go away.
Recently, a lama aggressively copulating with his students in Australia used reasoning such as your's as an excuse for his behaviour. This lama is a friend of HHDL.
This was my point, exactly! This is the mindset of many tantric practitioners and more ordinary purveyors of TB as well. Weren't you a fan or friend of this lama at one point? I recall your posting videos of his teachings.
I have got the answer I was seeking. I ask that this thread be closed. I do not care about tantric sex and this thread has got wildly off-topic. It has come to a point where it's embarrassing and is more about bickering than finding the truth.
Comments
Recently, a lama aggressively copulating with his students in Australia used reasoning such as your's as an excuse for his behaviour. This lama is a friend of HHDL.
This simply castes suspicion on HHDL that he is merely giving lip service to the sexual misconduct practised by llamas.
Regards
As for the origins of Tantra, it is certainly something practised with one's spouse. It is a Hindu practise for laypeople rather than some superstition about it leading to hightest enlightenment.
Does HHDL practise it? Is HHDL's enlightenment inferior?
Your post is just theoretical non-sense, just as aMatt, a mature man in age, has not overcome his craving, longing for, delight & attachment to sexual pleasure.
Zayl is basically a teenager with his first love. Naturally, he feels the "love" he does. But aMatt is a older man (appearing still caught up in teenage fantasies)
True trantra is like bondage and discipline. It is for the male to submit to the control of the woman (rather than making all kinds of sexual demands). It is not about horny voyeuristic men believing they are Cassanova.
However, the Buddha suggest sex for householders because they did not have the inclination to be free of it. They did not have the inclination to place butt on the floor. As they are not free from lust, if they do not participate in sex, they will burn up inwardly with lust.
So, having sex with your horny partner can be an act of compassion, on that level.
However, that sex is going to lead to highest enlightenment, that is laughable.
Regards
I'd like to recommend a talk given by Gil Fronsdal on Audio Dharma called "Investigating Happiness" He talks about sensual desire and I think you might find what he says interesting.
Metta
Perhaps I could have put what I said more... modestly. But I felt that talking straightforward was the better route. Tell me, have you ever felt the warmth of a woman? I am not trying to imply anything by this, but it seems you are entirely unable to understand where I am coming from. If that is the case then I will cease posting in this thread, as it would be a complete waste of my time. And I thought I was cynical. It just seems to me that mayhap you could still get your message across without using words that sting so much.
Not only that, but you have insulted my integrity, my girlfriend, my relationship with her, and my intelligence... If you are unable to reply to me in a manner befitting proper speech then i shall avoid talking to you in the future, for the sake of both of us.
Zayl, sorry your feelings were hurt.
But that's not to say he definitely never had sex after enlightenment.
He probably went to the toilet after enlightenment too, but no mention is made of that either.
Just because it's not written, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
But it doesn't mean it did, either.
Tell me again why this matters...?
Have fun!
@ Zayl: don't mind DD. He's just the local troll. Don't feed him and he might go away. This was my point, exactly! This is the mindset of many tantric practitioners and more ordinary purveyors of TB as well. Weren't you a fan or friend of this lama at one point? I recall your posting videos of his teachings.