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Why is labeling such a terrible thing?
Zelkova
Explorer
I really don't understand why there is such an aversion to labeling. I'm an atheist and proud of it. I'm also gay and also proud of that. I'm not so attached to those labels that I only think in those terms though. My problem comes when people say that we should get rid of those labels. How would we ever fight for our rights without labeling the people who fight against us? Without labels to identify things and people how would we ever function in this world?
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But believing such things and acting on those beliefs is an entirely different matter.
I also don't quite agree with you about "being proud" of the basic aspects of your life.
"I'm proud of being gay." "I'm proud of being straight." "I'm proud of being bisexual." I just see those things as being what you are -- therefore, nothing to be proud of --, rather than being something you accomplished -- something to be proud of.
Now, in terms of what religion (or not) you see yourself as being...hmmmm...gotta think on this before seeing that as a thing of pride.
@vinlyn I understand where you are coming from. I'm still a teenager and I'm still trying to come to terms with myself and my less-than-accepting family. It just feels like I am accomplishing something.
Look what being labeled "savages" got the indigenous populations of desirable lands during colonialism?
Look at the destruction of children being labeled by unskilled teachers and parents.
Dangerous mob behavior can result from demonizing people with labels.
Labeling pollutes people's minds- both those who are labeled and those doing the labeling.
Labelling isn't such a big deal, but when you invest your mental energy into adopting that label, you create the conditions for suffering. For instance:
You spend an hour thinking about how much of a gay person you are. Then, someone comes along and says being gay is stupid. Your response would be to suffer with anger, feel offended and so forth.
Instead, you spend that hour in meditation letting thoughts, self, emotions go. Then, someone comes along and says being gay is stupid. Your response would be less self-heavy, and you might see the other person's fears, prejudices or whatnot, but you would do it while happy.
It wouldn't be about you, because you don't spend time building self. Like someone throwing a water balloon at you, if there is nothing to hit (you don't keep invisioning self as something), it doesn't create unhappiness. It doesn't mean you try not to be straight, or christian... there just isn't a purpose in pointing in the mirror and declaring yourself this or that.
In terms of a "cat"... we use conventions to exchange information. The danger is thinking that it IS a cat. That's our label, do you think it calls itself a cat? Are people who call it el gato incorrect? Chat? Katze? Is it more "cat" than "cells" or "atoms"? What about seeing anger? How is it "anger" when its driven by "fear" or "ignorance"? What about some who see the same expression as "passionate"?
We don't stop labelling, so much as accept how fleeting and imperfect labelling is... and unless we are trying to communicate the forms, what point is there in letting our mind label? It again generates the same conditions for conflict, because one calls it el gato, or atoms, cells, molecules, passion, fear... etc etc.
With warmth,
Matt
So is a cat "a cat?" Sure. But what is a cat ... or, more pointedly, who are you? If there is no label that works completely, what works completely?
Labeling isn't the matter of being so terrible as it is when something or someone is labeled, information is excluded about it or them. They become obscured by other information stored under it.
For example, If one were to say, "I am a creep," this would bring up all of the associations and stored data under the label, "creep." Some would believe one to be obscure. Others may deem one as too dangerous to have around kids, while others would still be deciding what one means by the word creep. Yet, none of these actually have anything to do with what the individual would mean by the word, creep.
When something is symbolized by a label, deep structure is imposed by the symbol system that is used on the way the individual who labels _perceives_ the thing that they are symbolizing. "There is a Japanese proverb which relates that to confusing the moon with the finger pointing to it."
People tend to believe that they understand something when they have a name for it. This is called the nominal fallacy, in "my book." It enables people to take very ill-defined concepts and ongoing processes and talk about them as though they are concrete things. The problem is that frequently even the users of these labels, names (terms) do not know what they mean.
Labeling is a good tool. However, we must realize when we are using it.
Respectfully:
SimpleWitness
Hope this helps
Metta
Terry
@Vinlyn: Thank you for this. I've never thought about this before.
@Zelkova, @Vinlyn: Thinking this way is cynical, in all reality. And to think that a lot of us are raised to believe in this mentality.. hmm. Interesting. This sort of way of thinking also brings attachment, grasping at the self.
@Keyouse I guess the reason I am proud is that it's a response to all the negative things people say and do when homosexuality is an issue. It really is just a way of defending my "persona" against "threats". I need to let go and just be.
I born as goshiki , I modified it to be goshiki as I wish , I survive as goshiki I wish and I will die as goshiki that I always think is mine and goshiki that I think I know .
In Buddha , the Goshiki that I think I know is actually my pollutant that I should eliminate , not something I should be proud of ,not something I should be wish for . In Buddha , my ego , my desire infact is pollutant against purity.
In Buddha , we have to understand / know our awareness by being awake not drawn into our pride , our ego or our desire .
Labelling is an attempt to give essence to "things" and allow communication. Labels are not real or absolute.
to be gay is fine, to be gay and proud or athiest and proud is ridiculous if u think about it in terms of buddhism where the goal is to let go of pride period- you are not better because your atheist or buddhist or gay. your just another nobody like the rest of us
"The map is not the territory."
-Alfred Korzybski
"Before a man studies Zen, a mountain is a mountain
While a man studies Zen, a mountain is no longer just a mountain
When a man really understands Zen, a mountain is once again a mountain"
-Zen Proverb
Alan
We are all flesh and blood.
We all have physical, mental and emotional differences.
We tend to use specific words to name these differences.
It only becomes a problem when people attach negative emotions to these words.
If we spend more time being rather than describing we will have less to worry about.
When I look at my cat, the first thing my brain thinks about is "cat" or "Sam" or "fur".
Get rid of the label tho and look... you start seeing what is really there. Like energy, auras, primordial essences - in short Seeing.
Maybe if we got rid of labels altogether we could start seeing what is really "out there". We would be so surprised to see the living energy of trees and animals and people.
I remember that I did this with a tree one night. I saw past the label to the actual thing that was the tree! What I saw as my third-eye opened was thousands of violet energy fibers that came from the Earth and went up the trunk. They where alive and vivid and shown like neon in the darkness. On top of the tree, I could see all these dancing feelers reaching for the sky as they plucked vitality from the air. It was so beautiful.
What stops us from seeing the world as it truly is... are labels.
I feel like labels go beyond convention. Most commonly they are used to segregate or separate. This is typically done to identify friend/foe.
What we can do is to observe and be mindful of how our language affects our thoughts. We cannot avoid thoughts either, but we can try to observe them with less attachment and be open to the fluidity of words.
I earn my living in a creative field where I need to manipulate words and language, and to think of unusual connections between thoughts and words. I think this is a good exercise for anyone to try.
Open your minds!
Could you offer an example of word exercises that would be helpful?
Sure, try this one: look at an object. Think of its 'normal' label. For example, 'cat'. Then keep looking at it, and start thinking about and writing down all the other labels one could apply to it: its name, its breed, mammal, furry, fat, warm, pillow ... just keep going. Write them all down. Once you run out of those, try more abstract qualities you associate with it: friend, companion, dude, princess, luxury, regal, scrappy, whatever ... you get the idea. Try to write down 50 words you could conceivably connect with 'cat'. Don't judge yourself, just write them down as soon as they pop in your head. Soon you will realise that, yes, this IS a cat, and it's OK to call it a cat, but it is ALSO all these other things. That's what I mean by the fluidity of words.
If you want to take it to the next level, try writing an 'ad' about the object. So sticking with the cat example, take your long list of words and start to think of an essential truth about that object, of something you think captures the essence of it. Look at your 50 words and see what connects them. or maybe just a view together start to form an idea. For the cat, let's say it is really 'cool' and laid-back, as many cats are. So what is an idea that is all about being cool and laid back? A jazz club? A pool party? An iceberg? A massage? Once you start thinking of those scenarios, write them down. Write down 10. Then, think of another value about the cat. Maybe its co-ordination. So maybe it is funny to think of uncoordinated things: people falling over, accidents, whatever. Write down 10 more. Now maybe, out of those 20 ideas, you have the beginning of a creative, lateral-thinking concept for an 'ad' about a cat.
This is the creative process. It's hard. It's what I do everyday. Thinking of associations between things, then working and working until you find an association that is both 'true' (ie captures the essence of something) but also unusual and original, something people haven't seen a million times before. That's why it is essential to come up with lots of ideas, because the first 1, 5, even 10 ideas will probably just be clichés or other ideas you've seen before. The discipline is to keep going and going.
And that's why, I believe, labels are really important, but if we actually work at it, we can realise the amazing creative connections between these labels.
Happy writing!
Thanks everyone for showing me a new perspective on a word that was a negative for me. Thanks to the Op for starting this thread.
This is the practice, not to have anything, not to have the flag and not to have the wind. If there is the flag, then there is the wind; if there is the wind, then there is the flag. You should contemplate and reflect on this thoroughly until you see in accordance with the Truth. If considered well, then there will remain nothing. It's empty, void; - empty of the flag and empty of the wind. There is no birth, no old age, no sickness, no death. Our conventional understanding of flag and wind is only a concept. In reality there is nothing. That's all! There is nothing more than empty labels.
If we practise in this way, we will come to see completeness and all of our problems will come to an end. In the great Void the King of Death will never find you. There is nothing for old age, sickness, and death to follow. When we see and understand in accordance with Truth, that is, with Right Understanding, then there is only this great emptiness. It's here that there is no more 'we', no 'they', no 'self' at all.
Ajahn Chah
All just people. When you confuse the labels for reality, you don't see the person. You see the label.
So yes, labels are terrible things.
On the other hand labels are tools for us to function in the world. Communication would be impossible without labels. I guess that the distinction comes when we use labels in either a skillful way or an unskillful way which determines whether it causes suffering or not.