Can Buddhism studies be certified ?

goshiki

I am NOT trying to cause any excitement here sincerely , yerderday I was just informed by one member here that Dalai Lama hold doctorate degree of Buddhism study . Honestly this is new to me ,since I never "involve" in Buddhism study before , I never know there are school or university giving courses or buddhism study even offer a "doctorate degree"...............
Can Buddhism study be certified ??????? I know we can certified a person as doctor if he know medicion but who can certified how much a person aware ??????
A doctor that acknowledge / respected by public for their knowledge in medicion perhaps having hunting as hobby . He in public is "knowledgeble" but in Buddhism perhaps he still un-aware his action of killing other living for fun...he in Buddhism just like a 2 years old baby that still does not aware and need time to learn .
Dalai Lama perhaps having knowledge of Buddhism history , expert in his local tradition but to "certified" him as an "expert" in Buddhism ?? I still need to learn .............

zenmyste

No one is an expert in buddhism. They can only be an expert of the 'self'
And trust me, most people will never be an expert of the self.

Do yourself a favour and study REAL buddhism which is in the heart...the best person to teach u buddhism is YOURSELF.

Weird_Artist

^I agree.

However there are degrees in almost anything now, one of my friends has a degree in comedy! Being certified doesn't mean you know anything more than somebody who isn't, it just means you have taken the time to get your knowledge and hard work formally graded and checked. In Buddhism this is pretty much redundant, since to become knowledgeable you need to study various things, but the main skill is practice. Meditation and attitude towards other people&animals is far more important that book-smarts.

dorje

A person can get a doctorate in Buddhism from a University which has a religions faculty. As an example, Al-Azhar University offers doctorates in Islam, Trinity College offers doctorates in Christianity, and so on. In the case of Buddhism, Nalanda Institute offers doctorates in Buddhism.

Basically religious degrees are given to people who have vast knowledge of the religion they studied. In Tibetan Buddhism these people are known as "pandita", meaning "one who has accumulated vast amounts of knowledge". Many of these panditas are also translators, and they translate ancient Sanskrit sutras, tantras and commentaries into another language like Tibetan, Chinese, English, etc. These people are known as "lotsawa" meaning "translator".

So basically, a doctorate in Buddhism is nothing more than a recognition that you have great amounts of knowledge in Buddhist theories and are able to comment on the sutras, tantras and their commentaries. After all, every one knows that PhD means "Permanent head Damage".

aMatt

Buddhism is not just an open heart, clear mind. There are scriptures, and the scriptures are full of many obervations and instructions. Being an expert in Buddhism is to know those well. There are many universities that have degrees in Buddhism.

Buddhism itself is a developmental system, it is not something taught to us by a tree or rock. When people say "there is no teaching Buddhism" it is, at its best, confusing knowledge and wisdom. There is no teaching the wisdom that comes from practice, perhaps, but there is teaching the practice.

BonsaiDoug

Well stated aMatt!

Kwantum_Kev

@goshiki - I am beginning to wonder if maybe you have a "Dalai Lama envy" thing going or something. It seems you are bound and determined to undermine any teachers or great figures in Buddhism. If I remember correctly, you have made similar comments about Shakyamuni Buddha himself.

The question I have is - why? If you are trying to make the point that we all need to follow our inner voices above all, great - we get it. But to discredit - or at least try to - all of the great teachers, past and present, surely does nothing beneficial for all of those (us) out here looking for some guidance from those who have been a little further down the path than we are.

It seems to me that you are aiming more towards nihilism than Buddhism, as Buddhism - at least as I have learned it - has ALWAYS revered great teachers : the Buddha, Nagarjuna, Shantideva, the Dalai Lama. I have to wonder, just what branch or school of Buddhism do you align with? It seems to be one that I have never encountered.

I hope you find what you are looking for, and I also hope that you can find a way to reach it without tearing down the guide rails for the rest of us.

Namaste'

Kwan Kev

goshiki

@dorje , Islam is a religion based on quaran as their referral , all muslim they are prohibited to use other source . In Buddha from what I currently understand being a lay man that never read any Buddhist book or listening to any monk talk is about SELF AWARENESS...the key word is AWAKE right ????? How can you certified your awareness that included all your emotions / desire / compassion / feelings ????
If one day Dalai Lama and a " rocker" on the same street both witness a burning house with an old lady inside the house , perhaps Dalai Lama dared not to enter the burning house to save the old lady perhaps "the rocker " can.
Have you heard dolphin fish save fisherman life at sea , should we give "Buddhism doctorate degree" to the dolphin ??
Sometime I think , human are too ego to express their view and fail to digest Mr Siddharta teaching....sorry in advance

goshiki

@Kwan Kev , dear sir , please dont start to judge me or have any funny idea about me . Please dont focus on me like all the Buddhist website I enter but please lets discuss on the topic......
I just cant free myself from my current awareness that Buddhism is IMPOSSIBLE to be taught but all ( living and non-living) are knowing Buddha from each other . Please show me I am wrong as I fully aware that I need to move to higher awareness .....

and again...stop makes judgement about me.....is NOT FAIR to me....

goshiki

why there are so many people think they " have the right" to use any scriptures / text as referral to Buddhism ????
From my awareness is enough to understand Mr Siddharta finding simply focusing on the word " BE AWAKE "......what makes you so sure you are using right text ?????
What makes you so-so sure he said this or that , or his teaching is this or that???
What makes you so sure even he existed or not ??
Mr Siddharta IS NOT IMPORTANT in Buddhism ANYMORE but the words " AWAKE" said coming from him is VERY IMPORTANT.....and whether is was a prince or a princess is NOT IMPORTANT ANY MORE......" Strive for your own liberation with diligence "....I want to belief he said that and whether true or not IS NOT IMPORTANT as in Buddhism it self THERE ARE NO RIGHT or WRONG , no TRUE or FALSE...show me otherwise...lets be open to discuss without any funny ill feeling ...thks

goshiki

I grew up without any "Buddhist" knowledge and never read or listening to monks talk but last year when I laern the wonderfull world of communication via internet I started to post views in Buddhist webside and frankly was rejected , banned in most of site . What I sincerely want is to share awareness on Buddha so that I could tell my daughter about Buddha , so that she will understand it without having to suffer of old age , sickness or death like most of human in the world . That will be the best gift a father could give his daughter...I am 42 and my coffin is on making....time running out....I need to learn ok....STOP having funny idea on me ...is not fair to me

KarmaDondrupTashi

last year when I laern the wonderfull world of communication via internet I started to post views in Buddhist webside and frankly was rejected , banned in most of site

Wow what a surprise.

goshiki

Sorry not "tell" my daughter but share awareness with her

Jeffrey

The degree is from an academic perspective. Just as a degree in Christian theology does not mean you will go to heaven, so to a degree in buddhist studies does not mean you will become wise (or purified or whatever).

goshiki

My current awareness , Dalai Lama regardless what kind of "certificate" he had , in Buddhism is IMPOSSIBLE to say he is greater any living or non-living at any time for any condition . He is and will always be one of the living in his own purification process NOT connected to anything or anyone or in any part of Buddha .

tmottes

@goshiki I think you are right that the final goal of buddhism cannot be taught, nor is it really even the goal, haha, but buddhism doesn't start with the final goal as the first step. In order for people to understand and see how buddhism can apply to their lives, most need to have a conceptual understanding of a basic practice, and each person learns that in a different manner. Some can read books, some learn by one on one sessions with somebody, some with classes or retreats, etc. This is what is given to the student (the seeker of truth) by the teacher (the pointer to truth). To disregard knowledge because it is given by a teacher is to be closed because of a label ("teacher"). I may be wrong, but it seems you cling strongly to this idea that nobody can teach the final goal: not a judgement, as I am not saying it is right or wrong, but merely an observation. I think that it would provide more benefit to you and others to focus on what we CAN learn from somebody, than what we can't learn from them, wouldn't you agree? If it doesn't work/apply to you, let it go and be happy that it does work/apply for another. Because ultimately we all hope/want/desire that others find the path and are able to see it through to the non-end

PS. The experiences you have during meditation should be your standard by which you judge the wisdom of any teachings, this is what I believe the buddha was saying when he said don't take my word for it.

goshiki

@tmottes...I can easily agrees with you in many expect especially WE CAN LEARN FROM all. "teacher" , monk or "master" never bother in my own search of my own purity just that as a human the concept / the perception is wrong in Buddhism.

aMatt

In Buddha from what I currently understand being a lay man that never read any Buddhist book or listening to any monk talk is about SELF AWARENESS...the key word is AWAKE right ?????

This explains why you have no understanding. You've not read any books or heard any monks talk. Perhaps your fantasy of buddhism is not what buddhism is... what in the world are you basing your view of buddhism off?

Perhaps consider that goshiki doesn't know, and could if he let himself be taught.

goshiki

@aMatt ....sir , please focus on the topic not me personally . In Buddhism I am fully awake that I must learn from all even from my own shit.......lets discuss on the subject please......dont makes any assumption on who am I , you dont know me infact I am just trying to know myself ok......sorry in advance . Whether I know all the Buddha text / scripture or not , whether I have Master or not is never an issue , lets study on the topic from the discussion....

goshiki

Book / text / scripture infact can be limitatation in knowing Buddha . In search of buddha , we have to continue learning / knowing it to aware and to be fully understand and be awake .
This is a forever on-going process that cant be stop so by reading book written by "a teacher" is actually to gain his knowledge at time he written the book it could be years from the time we read it and by now perhaps "the teacher" had moved to higher awareness and his awareness had changed and the book is outdated even to him .
For example , today , now I am of the opinion that is impossible to teach Buddhism to others and I am "fully aware" of this and write a book about this.....perhaps after 6 months some member here had share his awareness to me and makes me aware that Buddhism can be taught and I had changed my perception and moved from my previous awareness....so what happen to those who read my book ??
We can write book on cooking , on sports even on sex but in search of BUDDHISM awareness of oneself cannot be written down as it must be a continue changing process .....if we defended all our "belief" , our "words", our "actions" that is ego , we must be ready to change , ready to learn /know at all time that is why in Buddhism there is no right and wrong.....is only aware or not....right or wrong is only ourself made policy in our current world and is never existed in Buddha

robot

Say again what it is that you are trying to get from this topic. @goshiki you seem to have wandered from your question. Of course Buddhism can be taught. Maybe realization cannot be taught but I believe it can be compared to the realization of accomplished masters as a kind of signpost or map of the way ahead. As long as the material that I am reading is coming from someone more realized than me, and I must be the judge of that, then thats good enough.

goshiki

@robot, in Buddhism we are all free to do anything we wish to do , accept anything we wish to accept is always depend own each awareness , it would never be right or wrong .
Perhaps I am still not reach to your awareness yet that buddhism can be taught but I am fully aware that I must always ready to learn from you or anything or everyone here.....but at this moment 0840am local time in Malacca Malaysia , I still not reach to your awareness yet . Is never and will never wrong to learn Buddhism even from a rock but is only wrong for a person declare himself as teacher even for Mr Siddharta who is only the introducer of this energy to mankind .
I must learn Buddhism from Dalai Lama same way I learn Buddhism from my daughter or my koi fish or from a pen on my table or from tree outside my window ...is only wrong for Dalai Lama to declear himself a teacher that could be regarded by others as referral to Buddhism . He or any other "great monk" even Mr Siddharta himself is at my current awareness impossible to be connected to Buddha in any possible way. His so call "teaching" is his own purification process on his own awareness , in his own method , on his own speed same like others countless living and countless non-living in this world and beyond that can be known or learn by us that should not be regarded as a "special case" in Buddhism . All of us , human , animal , viruses , trees , rock , water - living or non-living is same and equal in Buddhism as no one is higher than other ..That is my current awareness..please show me otherwise , I am ready to learn and change my awareness sincerely

robot

@goshiki This is probably a poor example. Your daughter will learn your language by listening to you and with your help. Can she learn to read and write without a "teacher"? All by herself? Because someone knows how to teach children to read and write they can call themselves a teacher. Not special, they simply have qualifications that others might not have. Is there a problem with that? Of course not. At the moment I don't see much of a difference. There are methods and steps to be taken to understand Buddhist teachings and to use them to attain realization. Much of this needs to be taught and explained.

goshiki

@ robot , sir you are pointing at "knowledge" not awareness . In "knowledge" yes ofcause we can have teacher , in education of knowledge , in sport as we call it as trainer . In "knowledge" we can even certified oneself having knowledge like in medicion if you know about medicion , our public via university can award you with a certificate that acknowledge you of having knowledge of medicion...that is acceptable by me but in Buddhism in my current awareness "knowledge" is only tiny part .......

robot

I don't see a difference. Reading and writing are a type of knowledge for sure, but until it is part of my experience, my awareness, I won't 'get it'. Whether someone has a certificate or not, and I am sure that such a certificate does exist, their qualifications as a teacher for me will be determined by me. It is not an important issue for me.

aMatt

@aMatt ....sir , please focus on the topic not me personally .

You are the topic. Until you can see what buddhism is, what is there to discuss? You say the same thing over and over, in this and other threads. You claim mastery, and that you cannot be taught. That's very limiting, so what else is there to do but try to get you to open up?

Buddhism is not awareness. Its not "being awake." Buddhism is a system of cultivation and observation. If you'd read some books or listen to some monks, or even put down your preconceptions for a second, you'd probably see it.

goshiki

@aMatt , I respect our different view as both are perhaps on the same direction but different path .. , again NEVER in any condition I claim to know Buddha more than others sorry if you feel that way , I am not . As I writing here I learn , not teach for that I am fully aware my intention . Sir I never say I cannot be taught you having "too much" idea on me . What I meant is I can learn Buddha from you or anything but no one can claim to be teacher . In Buddhism only self learning never teaching . Your perception in Buddhism is depend on your awareness is never right or wrong . Please dont "get " me into troble by commented on my way of searching Buddhism , in most of Buddhist website this is a factor I being banned .

aMatt

Please dont "get " me into troble by commented on my way of searching Buddhism , in most of Buddhist website this is a factor I being banned .

I admit I have a difficult time understandning your posts, and you say the same thing over and over in different ways, and don't seem to read anything except what you want to. I'm doing my best to reach out to you, friend, but you gotta reach back. Buddhism is a set of instructions. As we practice buddhism, we learn from self, study our minds, and can learn from anything our senses observe. Such as a kid, a koy...whatever.

But, buddhism teaches us how to do that in a skillful way. How to meditate, how to approach our mind skillfully, what morals help cultivate more mindfulness. It isn't just "sit and stare at the pet fish".

goshiki

@aMatt, Sir I am not same as your intention as I never "reach" to you . I am learning as I write , I am learning as I read your reply and I am learning as I reply your comment . Never in my intention or action to reach to you , to influence you or to get you agree with me . You have your own purification process in your own way , your own speed not related to anything or anyone as I am but in our process of own purification learning / knowing Buddhism by being awake to learn from others help us in our own process .
In my current awareness , there is no such thing as " a Buddhist' or practising Buddhism .....I still need to aware of this....by staring at my fish if I am ready to learn , I can learn alot of Buddha from it....the factor is I must sincerely accept the fish is same and equal as me and I am no greater than them and they can show me purity.......

goshiki

To have a "rule" that Buddhism can only be learned from "teacher" , from text , from meditation , from scripture ......perhaps is limitation to know Buddha . There are trillions method , sources to know Buddha and the above method/materials/souces is one of the countless...

Jeffrey

goshiki it is an illogic that we can learn from anything and yet there are no teachers. You are redefining the word teacher, which is a correct word in the english language.

goshiki

@Jeffrey , I am not very good in Englist as I am a Chiese but even I cant read Chinese words , I am not really understand you . What I mean is I can learn Buddha from all but no one can claim to know buddha more than others whether to living even to non-living and teach . Is only involve learning from each other never involve teaching or get others to agree with us or be so sure what we learn is right ...knowing Buddha is a forever learning process that cant be stop or be confident of knowing it....

Jeffrey

Goshiki basicly if you learn from someone that is your teacher. So if you learn from a fish then that fish is your teacher. It does not matter if the fish does not know more than you or less than you about buddha. Similarly you can learn from Mr Dalai Lama. If you learn something from Mr Dalai Lama then he is just like a fish and is your teacher.

Your english is very good. I have only learned chinese numbers some of them. Yut yee sam sung lok bot gow sup.... something like that (kung fu class).

vinlyn

I grew up without any "Buddhist" knowledge and never read or listening to monks talk but last year when I laern the wonderfull world of communication via internet I started to post views in Buddhist webside and frankly was rejected , banned in most of site . What I sincerely want is to share awareness on Buddha so that I could tell my daughter about Buddha , so that she will understand it without having to suffer of old age , sickness or death like most of human in the world . That will be the best gift a father could give his daughter...I am 42 and my coffin is on making....time running out....I need to learn ok....STOP having funny idea on me ...is not fair to me

Okay, so you've been kicked off some Buddhist website. And now you are getting a negative reaction here.

DOES THAT TELL YOU ANYTHING????

You are consistently rubbing people the wrong way.

Here's why I think that's happening.

You have almost no knowledge of Buddhism, yet you are critiquing it.

My advice is to learn and ask questions, but not critique until you have a reasonable knowledge base.

We here debate and even argue sometimes. And some are very knowledgeable, and others of us have some knowledge and some experiences.

goshiki

@ Jeffrey, thats correct , Dalai Lama is my teacher always is and always will be same like my fish or the pen on my table but the fish never tell me " I am your teacher" , the pen never tell me " I know Buddha more than you , my words is teaching " , my dog never put a name " master" or "Holyness" or "Venerable" in front of his name right ?
We are "decorating" Mr Siddharta and now Mr Dalai Lama......is never relate to my search of own Buddha...But as a busy body human that full of rubbish , that like to critise others , that like to argue I think this concept is wrong.

Jeffrey

Its like you have to put your hand on the bible in court in front of judge. The emperor asked bodhidharma what is enlightenment. He said space. And nothing holy.

goshiki

@vinlyn , please calm yourself ...relex bro I am here to learn from you not to cause any excitement or anger .......
In all Buddhist website I was condemmed , critise even banned just because I told them I never read or listen to any monk talk or never study under any master , I never proud of that just simply believe there are countless way to learn. People really look down on me just because of that , they trying to feed me with all sort of referrals , text , scripture , meditation technic etc . That is not what I am looking for . if I want to "study" any monks talk , if I want to "study" what might Mr Siddharta " teaching" , I can search from internet since now I am quite good at it or buy a book written by a well known monk sit under a tree with beer beside and read ...
This is NOT what I want ......I just wish to learn awareness and infact I had learn alot here and in all buddhist website even in some site is just a few hours .
You see , 2000 years ago ASOKA suddenly changed his mind from being to war to peace . There must be alot of awareness he had learned that moved him from a evil man to a good man. That kind of awareness we must learn ok......

zen_world

so the pen on your table and your fish is the same as Dalai Lama...interesting!

The only thing is that you guys are loosing respect! HHDL and pen!!! I don't even know what to say to this...delusion at its best!

goshiki

If human continue to choose and limit themself of what he think is right source of Buddhism , comparing ownself with others or accepting oneself special than others....perhaps that is ego....perhaps that is limitation to know Buddha.

robot

Trolling at its best

goshiki

@robot......please ...come on guys not again lets discuss ok......be fair to me ....

robot

Nah, I don't think so.

zen_world

its not accepting oneself special than others or vice versa...it is something called respect.
Respect to your teacher who will save you from samsara...a pen won't save your a$$ from samsara...you won't compare your teacher with a pen. This is the most disrespectful thing ever...a pen is not even a sentinent being...lol

goshiki

@robot , what "you dont think so" ? ....

goshiki

@zen-world , respect is exact word. We must respect all even to a pen in Buddhism , is wrong even to compare a pen to Dalai Lama since both is same and equal in my current awareness . Why dont you asked your teacher......? Is his right to speak for himself , is wrong to defend him if he does not need to be defended right ?

goshiki

i am always will be "wrong" as I am always changing views as I learned and moved . As I am fully aware that I cannot defend my awareness at any point of time since learning / knowing Buddha is continue on-going process . If I stick to what I believe , thats ego , Please help me to change my awareness....as I never defended my views....but are you same as me ?

zen_world

I have a better idea....You find yourself a teacher and then you ask him that.
This is your samsaric mind talking, it is an unknowing mind.
We don't respect a pen. A pen is a pen, it is an object...thats all...
With all due respect, you are either a Boddhisatva playing with us or you are a very confused fool...
PS: I used fool not as an insult but it fits better in this context...

goshiki

Sometime I think , human including me sometime like to own others as I feel own fish( use to but now no ) , my wife ( still learning since sometime I do jealious ) , my daughter ( trying very hard ) . my car ( certified is mine but I believe in Buddha no ) or for some even teachers .
Some even like to think alot for Mr Siddharta , decorated him the way they like and wish for.....come on....let it be....let them "introduce" themself I sincerely dont think they need anyone to introduce him

goshiki

@zen-world , your advice is not new to me but thanks .
Seems you are very comfortable with your belief not like me ...and I had learned from you seriously .
Anyway ,sorry if I had offended you , I never meant that .

goshiki

Sometime I really dont understand why so many people angry or show anger to me?????

zen_world

I wasn't angry at you at all...you are just another samsaric being confused very much so....thats all...find yourself a good teacher and beg him to unwire your delusions. Thats my advice...You really need it...