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To all Buddhists who believe in a god (or higher being of some sort)

edited August 2011 in Faith & Religion
Okay, I know there are a bunch of topics like this, but I'm not asking IF you believe in god(s) or a higher being or whatnot. I'm asking those Buddhists that do, what do you define god as? Is it a he? A she? Genderless? And are we all connected to this god, or is it its own seperate entity? And do you believe in more than one? Which ones? And do you make offerings/pray to them? Why do you believe in it/them?

Sorry there are so many questions, and sorry if I'm being nosy. I've just been curious about what the few buddhists that do believe in a god (or think about it, because I know there are those who don't really care because it causes attachment) think.

I would tell you what I believe, but I don't want to make this post too long. :D

Comments

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I do believe in a rather traditional God, but I think man has no idea how to define what "he" does. I think of him as a creator, but not as an entity that gets involved in day-to-day events, which is why (although I do it) I question the validity of prayer.
  • My beliefs have changed along with my spiritual practice and they will continue to change as my practice evolves. In the present moment of this existence I do not think of such issues but then again it surrounds me in everything I see, touch or do. I do not dwell on the matter since my practice is about finding that peace that is within and not without.

    Namaste
  • god for me is everything. god is a process. god is not a being or a thing.
    so in this definition we are all god and there is only god.
    anything added to this definition is a projection from us based on our desires, ignorance, insecurity, etc.

    the flower opens up as the sun's light gently pours onto it.
    the sun shines and warms our feet.
    the birds sing and fly about.

    tell me where is there not god? this isn't intellectual. this is what one feels when they no longer hold onto definitions and concepts.
  • "what do you define god as?"

    At this point, not much more than “Something ‘other’ at work in the universe.”

    "Is it a he? A she? Genderless?"

    No opinion.

    "And are we all connected to this god, or is it its own seperate entity?"

    My feeling is that it is something we can either be connected to or not, depending on whether or not we want to put in the effort. In 12 Step circles, there is the idea of the Sunlight of the Spirit. Basically, it’s something that is there, but that we can be closed off from. Once we go through the process of removing some of the emotional debris from our hearts, all of a sudden we become open to it and it shines in. That’s kind of how I think of it.

    "And do you believe in more than one?"

    No opinion.

    "Which ones?"

    No opinion.

    "And do you make offerings…"

    No.

    "…pray to them?"

    Yes. But I don’t pray for “stuff” or to have my problems taken away or that people’s cancer be removed or anything like that. Mainly, I pray that my attitude be changed and that I be relieved of “the bondage of Self”. Now, I don’t believe in a God that is going put some Hocus Pocus on me that will do these things, it’s more just another way for me to reaffirm my intentions. However, lately I’ve been transitioning from prayer to more of a meditation or training. Example: Where I used to recite the Prayer of St Francis, I now find myself reciting the Metta Sutta and meditating on Loving-Kindness. But there are still a couple of prayers that I am attached to.

    "Why do you believe in it/them?"

    I was raised with the idea and it is a difficult thing to break. Whenever I’ve tried (i.e. gone atheist) I’ve found it too painful (although I believe I gained many benefits out of the experience).
    Also, I’ve experienced some things that lead me to believe that there MIGHT be something going on. But I admit that might just be my own bias and misunderstanding.

    My experience is that spirituality is about discovery and the willingness to follow wherever it leads. I’ve given up on certainty and now simply allow myself (to the best of my ability) to experience that Sunlight of the Spirit I mentioned above. I try not to put my beliefs into a rigid box, so there is room for both the Dhamma and the idea of some sort of God (or force) even though I have no idea who or what it is.
  • @taiyaki and @JeremyKS1
    Oh man, I agree with both of you! I thought I was the only one who thought that way, to be honest.

    It is VERY hard for me to describe my definition of god (and I don't even like the word because there is already a preconceived, specific idea associated with it that I don't really like) and it's similar to what you two said. It just is, to me. It's in everything, but it can be its own being if it chooses. I think that it doesn't get too involved with our lives in the way that we think. Like, it doesn't go out and do things for us. We do those things, and it might encourage us to do it, or discourage us from it. We can choose to listen or ignore these warnings or encouragements, and most of the time I'm sure we don't notice them. I definitely think that it wants us to be independent and learn to do things on our own, which is why prayers aren't always answered.

    I pray to it, and I also think that people who claim that "this" god is right and "that" one is wrong are all praying to the same thing. They just call it something different.

    Hmm, why do I believe? Well, like I said, it's hard to describe, but I just feel it. I get a feeling inside and...yeah, doesn't translate to words very well. I literally took a month off from praying, talking to it or anything, and I still got the same feeling.

    Thanks for the comments so far, all. :)
  • @taiyaki

    I used to hold similar views regarding your pantheistic beliefs. One of the central tennets of the religion I was creating was based upon the idea that "God Is," in the sense of a pantheistic, omnipresent, penetrating awareness of which all phenomena are comprised, arise from, and to which, in death or destruction, all phenomena return.

    I eventually discovered that this assumption is unverifiable, unascertainable, and completely irrelevant to the path of liberation. What is verifiable, ascertainable, and relevant is that I am suffering, the cause of my suffering is my desire for sensuality/becoming/non-becoming, that the cessation of my desires would mean liberation, and that the path leading to the cessation of my desires is the Noble 8-fold Path.

    I hold nothing against others for their personal metaphysical and religious beliefs. I do believe, however, that reification of any form of "God" denies the validity of impermanence, dukkha, and not-self and as such will not lead to liberation from the cycle of suffering and death.

    This is entirely my personal opinion and should not be viewed as anything more.
  • I really admire Buddhism. I have read a lot and adopted many ideas from it. But I follow Sant Mat which is like Buddhism but believes in a God.

    Sant Mat says that God is within. That all the heavens and higher planes are within... as if we ourselves were a universe unto ourselves. There is nothing "out there". God is within!

    They also believe that in the beginning when God created the Universe he sent out his Word so that all his souls could find a way back to him. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God." They also call it the Audible Life Stream or the divine sound current and its believed that it is the easiest way to attain enlightenment. That is why their meditation technique, Surat Shabd Yoga, is called the "Easy Yoga".

    Surat Shabd Yoga involves meditating on the sound current. It's like a radio wave that is sent out from the highest plane where God resides. We need just follow it back. As I meditate... within in the silence a soft song is heard. It becomes all-inclusive and turns into beautiful celestial music with our souls and hearts being but instruments of it. It's the most beautiful music I have ever heard. And it vibrates through me, giving me Life and satiating all voids within me. I am truly found.


  • They also believe that in the beginning when God created the Universe he sent out his Word so that all his souls could find a way back to him. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God." They also call it the Audible Life Stream or the divine sound current and its believed that it is the easiest way to attain enlightenment. That is why their meditation technique, Surat Shabd Yoga, is called the "Easy Yoga".

    Surat Shabd Yoga involves meditating on the sound current. It's like a radio wave that is sent out from the highest plane where God resides. We need just follow it back. As I meditate... within in the silence a soft song is heard. It becomes all-inclusive and turns into beautiful celestial music with our souls and hearts being but instruments of it. It's the most beautiful music I have ever heard. And it vibrates through me, giving me Life and satiating all voids within me. I am truly found.

    Let me put a Buddhist spin on your method of yoga.
    During meditation and especially during dream yoga I have experienced so many wonderful celestial phenomena, undescrible sounds, visions, thoughts and feelings. They are wonderful and words are not enough to describe their beauty. But these are all phenomena and they are impermanent. If you stuck on any of these phenomena, you can't get enlightened. To be enlightened you must see the true nature of the phenomena. What you should do is to treat the celestial music as an object and analytically examine it. See, if it is permanent. If Buddha is right, your celestial music is nothing more than another phenomena.
    All these heavinly experiences are dreams at the end. You are still dreaming. So you want to wake up and save yourself from suffering then don't cling to anything. Or you will move from one dream to another. Its heavenly but it is only a dream.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    Not to distract too much from the OP ...

    I credit the initial usefulness of a "god," however anyone might define it. But over the years, I have grown suspicious of belief. Not because it strikes me as bad or naughty or foolish but because, with practice, belief simply is not relevant. Belief separates one thing from the next...and that separation is dubious to say the least. Belief also relies entirely on the past ... and no one can grasp the past. There are no do-overs and living in the past is not terribly nourishing.

    Practice builds experience, and where experience enters, belief is no longer so necessary. No one needs to bother believing when the know from experience.

    Anyway, as Tiny Tim said, "God bless us every one." :)
  • I don't think of "god" as some kind of separate something or someone. I see what most monotheistic humans call "god" as being simply the energy of the universe. It's the same energy that's in me, in you, in my dog, in my goldfish, in my house plant, and in the rocks in my front yard.

    It sure ain't some old white guy with a beard and flowing white robes sitting in a chair in the clouds ;)
  • Only our own direct experience has any merit really. They can preach and argue, theorize and debate, but none of it will truly matter to you until you have had that direct experience.

    To me, my experience has been God. Just because someone or some religion says God is a delusion does not make it so. To me God is real because I can experience him and through method (and my yoga) repeat the experience anytime I want. He is no dream to me. I'm beyond joy that I can experience God... And nobody can take that away from me. Nobody.
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited August 2011
    I always love this dialogue about God by Seung Sahn, a Korean Zen Master:
    On Tuesday nights The Providence Zen Center holds a meditation session at the Dharma Room (Manning Chapel) at Brown University. The following is an account of one of the exchanges which has taken place there.

    After one of the Dharma Teachers was finished with his introductory remarks, he asked those congregated to direct their questions to Zen Master Seung Sahn, Soen Sa Nim. One of the visitors asked if there was a God.

    Soen Sa answered "If you think God, you have God, if you do not think God, you do not have God."

    "I think that there is no God. Why do I have God if I think God?"

    "Do you understand God?"

    "No, I don't know."

    "Do you understand yourself?"

    "I don't know."

    "You do not understand God. You do not understand yourself. How would you even know if there was a God or not?"

    "Then, is there a God?"

    "God is not God, no God is God."

    "Why is God not God?"

    Holding up the Zen stick, Soen Sa said "This is a stick, but it is not a stick. Originally, there is no stick. It is the same with God for originally there is no God. God is only name. The same is true of all things in the universe."

    "Then is there no God?"

    "The philosopher Descartes said, 'I think therefore I am.' If you do not think, you are not, and so the universe and you are one. This is your substance, the universe's substance, and God's substance. It has no name and no form. You are God, God is you. This is the 'big I,' this is the path, this is the truth. Do you now understand God?"

    "Yes, I think that there is no God, and I have no God."

    "If you say that you have no God, I will hit you thirty times. If you say that you do, I will still hit you thirty times."

    "Why will you hit me? I don't understand. Please explain."

    "I do not give acupuncture to a dead cow. Today is Tuesday." replied Soen Sa.
    :)
  • assertion and denial are the same game.

    just be and see for yourself.
  • People are dying n getting depressed! And u homeboys still sitting hur smokin budz n arguing about god?! Know wat im sayin?!!!
  • God is a breeze in stagnant air.
  • Haha, someone just told me that god would be a buddhist. So true, depending on your definition and whatnot...
  • KundoKundo Sydney, Australia Veteran
    As someone who comes from a Pagan/Wiccan practise to Buddhism, I still believe in "God/dess". To me the Dharma is essentially the same as Ma'at (Truth). There are differences I'm sure and ones I am on the path to learn. Did not the Buddha refuse to discuss whether or not God existed and stated God's existence was irrelevant to practising? I tend to take that view as well. It's a waste of time that could be spent practising to try to convince others of my beliefs.

    As a general opinion though, I find that my beliefs and practise marry together rather well. That may change further down the track though. I don't know.

    In metta,
    Raven
  • edited August 2011
    I always love this dialogue about God by Seung Sahn, a Korean Zen Master:

    This Zen teacher is far to "kind" to this student. The student still didn't get it. The more I read of how Zen masters present their arguments the more I am reminded of my own teachers main assertions; they are one in the same (I practice in the Tibetan tradition).

    God is given meaning by people, of course. This is easy to get. The atheist student understands this argument to mean that God does not exist.

    This is, of course, not the intended meaning of the teacher; far from it. Asserting total nonexistence [as opposed to "can't find...or doesn't exist as asserted"; that is where it's done as a non-affirming negation; where it asserts a lack of independent existence, or lack of existing "truly" or from its own side, (but not of being able to appear to a mind)] equals falling off the "nihilist" philosophical cliff for a Buddhist. Especially one who recites the Heart Sutra each day---"Form is emptiness, emptiness IS FORM, Form is nothing other than emptiness, emptiness is NOTHING OTHER THEN FORM". Not finding God (that is finding God "empty" of existing as self-sufficient God--- as something with essence means that what sentient beings call "God" can appear in myriad forms and that these appearances can function as cathartic, blissful, whatever, for those to whom God appears. And that's all good as far as I'm concerned. God is still as empty of being whatever anyone asserts as a truly existing, substantial entity; neither can I be that nor you; asserting God really exists gets you whacked with a stick; saying God does not exist gets you whacked as well. Asserting either extreme in Buddhist philosophy not only gets you whacked----it is totally whack.

    Whatever CAN be identified as God is not God because it's just an identity, a story about something and a story told by humans, to boot. What can't be identified as God because it lacks essence, CAN appear as a dude with long white hair for you or a moonlit sky for me.

    There is no way to get to the essence of God in a universe in which there is no essence, nothing other than appearing things and concepts (stories, ascriptions, whatever you choose to call it) about them.
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