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'alone vs. society'
ZendoLord84
Veteran
I'm 27. Started meditating and learning about buddhism when I was around 20. I've got a college degree, a steady job, started university a while ago, a very sweet girlfriend, sort of a family-life. I work out a few times per week, and in my spare time I like playing videogames, powernaps, reading books, stuff like that.
I'm not an outcast, however, since I started walking the path, i've become slowly more and more isolated from society. It's become difficult for me to maintain friendships. Furthermore I can hardly care about it. I know a lot of people, and I communicate with them on Facebook and such, but in my opinion this is the most superficial interspecial form of communication there is.
Things like festivals, christmas, holidays, they've become completely irrelevant. Due to my job and field of propession I follow the (business)news and the public opinion, but that's for job purposes only.
I like people, but it seems that I can't and don't want to 'fit' in anymore.
I'm wondering, has anybody else experienced this while walking the path ???
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Comments
When you go against the mainstream grain, I think you're bound to experience separation. Whether that's a bad thing for you or not depends on how satisfying and life-affirming the alternative lifestyle is, and how well-supported you feel within whatever community you belong to.
Those feelings pass rather quickly.
From my point of view, a lot of people are too scared to think for themselves, so they follow eachother around. Nietsche's ubermensch is not some form of arian breeding programme designed by Hitler and his henchman. It's an indivualist, a non-conformist, that follows and creates his own walk of life.
So.....Buddha was an ubermensch
another question arises. Is buddhism practical if it causes man to fit less and less in society? (In this case it doesn't matter if society is wise or unwise, it's still dictating life as we know it).
To be honest I've found the opposite to be true.
Regarding the second: I don't feel that being social is irrelevant, I find it helps me focus on my path and teach me how to be compassionate and open my mind. Everybody I meet is a teacher and I just love to be taught.
I tought at first it was a state of being, next to growing up, always been kind of a loner.
Now I know for sure it's a state of being.
Furthermore I think the fact i've moved seven times in the last eight years in three states (provinces)has something to do with it as well
@supertramp
I accept people for who they are. Working on the whole compassion thing as well. Maybe I need to work harder or differently. The more I know there is no difference, and no similarities, the less I feel this urge to be part of the whole system. So I react different to the same findings
If you're moving in a certain direction it is caused by a flow. However until you realise that you're sitting in a boat being floated in a direction by the movement of the water you will not know that you need to start rowing.
right now.....it's oke...floating
I need to grow into my new job, new relationship, new house, new city, get over my recent break-up,
I think I will stay for a few years in one place this time, proberly my perspective will change.
@supertramp
thanks for the wisdom.
Still, coming to terms with this revised point of view can take some time. And in the interim the sense of distance from or difference from others can act like a stick in your eye.
Take your time. Practice. And a bit at a time, you too will dance.
I will take my time and continue my practise
"It presumes we are separate and distinct". This is the part that I find most important in understanding the falsity of the statement "sharing an experience". Instead there seem to be people that just focus on the fact that there is no such thing as sharing experience.
edit: I was hesistant to say that there is a falsity in the statement, because I find that if somebody experiences an experience as shared, cognitive relativism instructs that it is infact shared. Because for that person there is nothing false about the statement.
The following is the Buddha's instruction on the Bonds of fellowship:
"There are these four grounds for the bonds of fellowship. Which four? Generosity, kind words, beneficial help, consistency. These are the four grounds for the bonds of fellowship."
Generosity, kind words, beneficial help, & consistency in the face of events, in line with what's appropriate in each case, each case. These bonds of fellowship [function] in the world like the linchpin in a moving cart. Now, if these bonds of fellowship were lacking, a mother would not receive the honor & respect owed by her child, nor would a father receive what his child owes him. But because the wise show regard for these bonds of fellowship, they achieve greatness and are praised."- Sangaha Sutta: The Bonds of Fellowship
Have you incorporated Metta into your practice as well ? When it comes to connecting with others the Buddha said that:
"A being who has not been your mother at one time in the past is not easy to find... A being who has not been your father... your brother... your sister... your son... your daughter at one time in the past is not easy to find."
Your survival depends on other people. Removing yourself from people will cause you to go the wrong direction in term of Buddhist practices. I suggest you find a temple with real monstics and tell them about your problem. If the way is important enough to you, you will find the time to do this.
Check out the Rhinoceros Sutra, it's one of my favorites. The Buddha says to be like the rhinoceros, a solitary animal. (This was intended for monks, but parts of it can apply to lay people, too.) Over time, as you settle into Buddhism and get comfortable, you'll start finding people here and there, now and then, who are a good fit with you. I wouldn't worry about this.
www.hermitary.com/solitude/rhinoceros.html
Maybe finding a temple would help you find like-minded people. But it might not, if it's full of groupies who fawn over the teacher. (Danger sign!)
Thank you, this sutra is very wise and inspiring. I like the part most that if you find a fellow traveler in life you should travel with him/her, and otherwise continue the path alone:). Reading this sutra gives me a very healthy positive feeling.
So far I haven't found a temple or a spiritual teacher that offers me the guidance that I seek. Next to online material that is.
@ch'an_noob
I still have a job that requires a lot of interaction, a girlfriend,a relationship with my parents and sister. I'm not sitting in a dark room all day condemming society:)
It would be nice to meet some folks that are on the same path as me for a change. I have started looking in my town
@dharma
I will try to imply more metta from now on in my meditations.
"What is good friendship? "Herein, Vyagghapajja, in whatever village or town a householder may dwell, spends time with householders or householders' sons, young or old, full of faith (saddha, confidence based on knowledge), full of virtue (sila), full of generosity , full of wisdom . He talks with them, engages in discussions. He acts in accordance with the faith of the faithful, with the virtue of the virtuous, with the charity of the charitable, with the wisdom of the wise. This is called good friendship.”- Dighajanu (Vyagghapajja) Sutta
Kalyanamittadi Vagga (AN 1.71 - AN1.80 ) Good Companions Inspire Wholesome Actions
"Bhikkhus, I do not know anything else that arouses non arisen kusala (good action, merit, virtue) and fades arisen akusala ( demerit, bad action, unskillful) as good companionship. Good companions arouse non arisen kusala and fades arisen akusala. This is the first.
"Evil companions arouse non-arisen akusala ( demerit, bad action, unskillful) and fades arisen kusala (good action, merit, virtue). This is the second.
You might try turning the situation around: Why do you imagine that anyone is on a different path?
If, as the Dalai Lama has stated succinctly, "Everyone wants to be happy," then our own limited views could probably use some expansion. This (so to speak) wider view is not a matter of intellectual or emotional squirming ... it's a matter of practice.
I understand what you are saying.
With 'path' I was meaning 'buddhist practitioners'.
It truely is a matter of practise. It truely is
The Buddha encouarged the Mahayana practice of the Bodhisattva path, which is to be one with the community in order to liberate more people and propagate the Dharma. It's never meant to be a isolationism, or a private club mentality. He had thousands of Monastic disciples that lived together as a "community".
I suppose the mis-interpretation of "loner" is actually saying, don't hang with bad friends that can influence you easily. But to seek out good people to influence you, especially at the early stage of your practice. Not to mention remove the attachment of always have to "hang out" and feeling lonely without alwyas the opprtunity to mingle. But bodhisattvas are always meant to be compassionate and wise people that can communicate and help out anyone.
Private clubs will just make the teaching shrink.
I battle with this all the time.
But you have to have balance!
http://www.nanhua.co.za/Reading/Master/The Fundamental Concepts of Humanistic Buddhism.htm
For householders, the Buddha only suggest occasional retreat like once a week and daily meditation sessions ( for example three thirty minutes session, 1.5 hour total). When it comes to regular solitude and leaving the world to develop deep meditation, it is a practice more compatible with people living in the monastic life .
Since householders have many other priorities and the main focus of their practice is for secular reasons, they can focus on doing good deeds to improve their own lives and the lives of other people in the society they live in. The following is one example of how our practice can benefit others as well:
“And how, Lord, does a lay follower live for the welfare of both himself and others?”
“If, Mahānāma, a lay follower himself has faith, virtue and generosity, and also encourages others in gaining them; if he himself likes to visit monks and to listen to the good Dhamma, and he also encourages others to do so; if he himself retains in mind the teachings heard and carefully examines their meaning, and he also encourages others to do so; if, having understood both the letter and the meaning, he himself practises in accordance with the Dhamma and also encourages others to do so—in such a case, Mahānāma, a lay follower lives for the welfare of both himself and others.”- Anguttara Nikaya (8:25)
Happy journeying.
who leads a good and pure noble life,
you should, overcoming all obstacles,
keep his company joyously and aware!
Dhammapada 328
I used to feel that until I realized that you can be the friend, to others, that the above is talking about.