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why are people attached to buddhism? (even tho monks have practised for years and got no where)
There's a few people on here who are TOO ATTACHED to buddhism. And it doesn't do them any good. The way they speak to others isn't nice at all or understand and there suppose to be practising buddhism and being nicer and more compassionate but because their too attached they become defensive towards buddhism and themselves.
Some people have even been banned over this last couple weeks. Its bizare. I've never known buddhist to be the way some are on here!
As for my thread question, I have travelled a lot in my time to place such as thailand,china,japan and napal and sat with many monks and done retreats with them.
They are NO where near enlightened. And when I say enlightened, I mean inner liberation - inner peace - happy within!
But I found myself asking why? People on here state buddhism IS THE WAY. Some have said its the ONLY way. And swear by it.but why? When there's more monks (real practitioners) who still haven't achieved that inner liberation. (Which is what its all about really)
Just because a man 2500 years ago apparently found inner peace.what makes u think that is the ONLY way.
I've heard some people say that the TRUE path has already been found. (Buddhism)
Butthe way I see it is, if something is absolute truth then it wouldn't only take one single hearing of the teachings and everyone would become enlightened! (If something is true then its true) but then why are we all not immediately enlightened after hearing buddhas teachings? (Some do attained it and some don't) because its not the ONLY way! Why are some so bias...
Buddhism is great - but only a common sense guide to being a nicer person.
For me, it won't bring inner liberation!
Only i can find my own inner peace my own truth and path!
Blessings to all
Some people have even been banned over this last couple weeks. Its bizare. I've never known buddhist to be the way some are on here!
As for my thread question, I have travelled a lot in my time to place such as thailand,china,japan and napal and sat with many monks and done retreats with them.
They are NO where near enlightened. And when I say enlightened, I mean inner liberation - inner peace - happy within!
But I found myself asking why? People on here state buddhism IS THE WAY. Some have said its the ONLY way. And swear by it.but why? When there's more monks (real practitioners) who still haven't achieved that inner liberation. (Which is what its all about really)
Just because a man 2500 years ago apparently found inner peace.what makes u think that is the ONLY way.
I've heard some people say that the TRUE path has already been found. (Buddhism)
Butthe way I see it is, if something is absolute truth then it wouldn't only take one single hearing of the teachings and everyone would become enlightened! (If something is true then its true) but then why are we all not immediately enlightened after hearing buddhas teachings? (Some do attained it and some don't) because its not the ONLY way! Why are some so bias...
Buddhism is great - but only a common sense guide to being a nicer person.
For me, it won't bring inner liberation!
Only i can find my own inner peace my own truth and path!
Blessings to all
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
There are many who still accomplish liberation and enlightenment, One fool projected that Milrepa was naught but an old man laying on the ground how foolish he was to think that such an appearance to his mind was real, Unless you accomplish various Siddhis to correctly discern other peoples minds then you have little but your own opinion based in self righteous and incorrect awarness.
The only performance you have a right to scrutinise - is your own.
When you feel you have achieved your own personal ideal, let us know.....
Your frustration is understandable and normal, believe it or not. I could have written it oh, maybe twenty years ago. Then, when I looked for Buddhas, all I saw were flawed human beings with an occasional charlatan pretending to be enlightened. But I continued, because I didn't have a choice. The Buddha's words spoke to me in a way that cut through my doubts.
Now, I see Buddhas all around me, people who have that inner peace you speak of. Why didn't I see that before? I suppose because I didn't know what to look for. So keep looking, but maybe a bit more inside your own mind instead of looking for it in others.
Oh, and remember the people on this board aren't all monks or dedicated Buddhists, even. Some are just people who read a bit about Buddhism and got it wrong in some way. That's OK. Even the ones ultimately banned might one day think back on what we're trying to say, and it will make a difference.
If they have told you they were not enlightened, that doesn't mean anything. Nobody who has any degree of true relisation would claim they were enlightened.
and these monks are proper hard core. Determined and give their all to buddhist teachings. (not like us who just come on here all day giving our opinions, and even when we do people dont like it and get touchy touchy and defensive)
Proper monks are cool man! and chilled out. But they have said themselves that They still havnt found Inner peace through Buddha.
The nearest who have it spot on are ZEN monks. I visited some in China. And they dont rely on Buddha alone. Zen is different from Buddhism. They only rely on finding their own Inner peace. Real ZEN is amazing. I have alot of time for zen.
Alot of people on here would benifit from actually going to these places and meeting real Monks. Completely different from our local sanghas.
Again, like i mentioned before, some have attained liberation and peace. and others have not. This is why i state that Buddhas teachings Cant be THE ONLY TRUTHFUL WAY. (because if it were, then we would all attain enlightenment right away! The reason people still havent even after 50+years is because they are relying on someting which isnt necessarily ultiamte TRUTH. There are many paths i feel. Relying on buddhism is attachment itself. aint good man!
And the second one was, why do you care? Are *you* attached? Are you nowhere near enlightened? That's all that matters my friend...
And the reason I care is probably compassion. I suppose you start feeling sorry for people who devote everything to buddhas teachings and then when you ask 'are you happy sir? They say NOT YET! So what is the answer then. What is the ultimate way to happiness. What is the way to inner peace. Perhaps there is no ultimate ONE WAY. (which is what im saying) So i dont agree when people say Buddhism is the only way, because buddha said this and buddha said that....When the only thing we truely know is that we know nothing...
People are wonderfully various, even if their expressions are less than wondrous.
Are some of them 'attached' to Buddhism? Of course they are. Are some of them less than the 'compassionate' others define and insist on? Sure they are. Do they wrap themselves in imagined virtues only to find themselves in a hangman's noose? Sure they do.
But, with luck, they are practicing ... falling down and getting up. Falling down is not a theory or a philosophy -- it actually hurts. And when people hurt, they latch on to what promises not to hurt. Is this wise over the long haul? No. But there is not a damned thing anyone can do about it except ...
Practice and find out.
And this life time is all we have.
Some teachings say we shouldnt think of past nor of future, just live in the present moment. But then we're suppose to believe we have another life after this. COME ON!!! This right now is all we have. We are not going to remember whether we come back or not are we? So its about finding inner liberation NOW. in this life time.
Where do I sign up for the instant gratification part??
"false dilemma: a type of logical fallacy that involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are additional options."
That whole argument is based on the false assumption that everyone already has the ability to read the map. It completely ignores the possibility that skill is required to read the map and not everyone has yet gained this skill. Which is why it's an illogical argument.
Or alternatively barf more ... but barfing is no big deal.
Ashcatman : Enlightened people (how I dislike that term) don't shine light out of their body. It just means they are free of suffering within. There might be more of such people in this world than we realize. If there even is such a state as enlightenment that is .... I still have no reason to believe there is such a state.
I do agree with you that people might be better served by not getting too attached to the Dharma but by walking their own path. Spiritual journey is a very personal one. If the Buddha were to pay attention to other gurus alone...he would not have left them to do his own thing.
If the monks you talked to have faith there are two reasons for that (there are 3 types of faith but the 3rd type requires one or both of the first two):
1. They have faith in the object alone; that is they see the Buddha as a correct being, period, even if they have never gained control over their mind, gained conviction about any of the 4 noble truths, etc. One would think that a monk who reflects on the unsatisfactory condition of this existence, contemplates that, and meditates on that, and who studies the 4 noble truths would have more than this kind of blind faith
2. They have faith based on conviction, borne of reasoning. In this case it would be reasoning about the 4 noble truths, the 12 stages of dependent origination, about the nature of self and other, etc. And generally, this conviction is arrived at though contemplation, initially, and later, realizations gained in meditation,which make it firm, coupled (possibly) with changes in how the mind perceives things, how one reacts to others (practicing morality). That is to say, this conviction becomes as firm as the conviction you have that the sun will rise tomorrow. It might not but you are convinced that it will---so convinced that you will reject all arguments to the contrary.
Having these, one then develops faith in the ability to obtain the fruit of practice. Having faith in the fruit of the practice means that, even if you are far from achieving the kind of mind that the Buddha spoke of, a mind completely free of suffering and the roots which produce suffering, you nevertheless are convinced that the teachings of the Buddha can, in fact, lead to such a state.
If you're new to practicing the dharma there's no way you can have the second type of faith simply upon hearing the words of the Buddha. Even the Buddha said that---that his disciples needed to test it out for themselves and see if it produced the results they wished to obtain. And there's really no way you could have the third type of faith in the result, simply because someone wearing a robe says "Yes, you can obtain this state".
Lacking conviction about the teachings, how can you honestly say to yourself that--- "If I practice this way I will surely obtain the desired state." Without realizations and reasoning, which support the conclusions of the Buddha all you've got is an image of a nice-looking and serene being who seems sincere. That's NOT to say that the first type of faith is undesirable; it's completely desirable. But practicing something like Buddhism requires that you gain an actual understanding of the teachings and test them out and see if they work---for you, specifically. If they work then you will slowly begin to change the way you see yourself, others, and phenomena; your behavior will change, you will develop conviction based on reason, you will start to have appropriate (rather than appropriated) faith in the result. It's still a very long process; it's not like you say the magic words and you enter to kingdom and rescue the maiden.
Lastly having Buddhist refuge is NOT the same as saying that no other system works. It's saying that, for ME, I will use this system; for ME, I trust this system. Until you actually believe that the teachings of Guatama Buddha liberate beings who apply them, you should not consider yourself a Buddhist, for the definition of Buddhist refuge is just that---understanding the unsatisfactory nature of your condition, having the belief that the dharma can bring you to a more satisfactory state. It doesn't have to be liberation, by the way; many people, who rightly call themselves Buddhists, seek rebirths in nice places, for example, or success in this life, etc. What they all have in common with the most pious monks is the fact that they have unshakable faith that the teachings of the Buddha have the ability to change the quality of your mind, when properly practiced.
When it comes to expecting to hear monks telling you they are enlightened, there is a rule where monastics are not allowed to declare enlightenment to laypeople. So you are unlikely to hear enlightened Buddhist monks telling you. So I wouldn't even try to find out whether some monastic is enlightened by ask them. You are not likely hear it.
Buddhism isn't about telling you the truth. It's about showing you how to see the truth for yourself. That's what the whole Noble Eightfold Path is about, and it can require many years of effort to pull ourselves out of our delusional state. The only reason the monastic system has survived is because it works, and is passed down to new generations by the ones who have mastered it, so you've obviously made a lot of assumptions about the inner-peace of these monks (you probably talked to newer students instead of ajahns or teachers).
Buddhism isn't about common sense. You can be told something is true, or common sense, but that doesn't change your mind. You can keep doing the same wrong things out of ignorance or habit for the rest of your life. Buddhism is about putting in effort toward changing your habitual thoughts/speech/actions and your very perspective on life. It's not a quick-fix and has never been described as one. We're so entrenched in our delusional world that there's a lot of work to be done to purify our minds.
With deep gratitude...
A little thread like this and he gets banned. BIZARRE!!!
Do I think that buddhism is the only way? No, but I do think it is the most elegant and efficient path of which we have knowledge. Is there historical context that is confusing to our current culture and modern way of thinking? Absolutely. Are the monks in buddhist countries any different than priests in christian countries? Tons of differences, but on a fundamental level they are merely conditioned products of their culture, not ideal spiritual models. The only person that can explore the interior of existence, is you. You come at it from a different perspective, a different set of patterns. The buddha simply tried to create a very general set of guidelines to help us discover our own interior path. Use it or don't. Some people who have been warned about the danger of a hot plate still have to touch the plate for themselves. I happen to be one of those people; although now, I just put my hand slightly above and feel the heat :crazy:.
Some people get stuck on their path and some people don't. Our focus should be on discovering our path and walking it. We can only help others find their way through the forest, if we ourselves have made it through. We must focus on "our" interior, if we wish to help in our "exterior."
I'm pretty sure they would agree, that Buddhism is not the only way.
I think it can be a very helpful realization on your path.
A "true" Buddhist would never preach Buddhism as the only way or the only path. That would be just expressing another attachment.
http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.html
Please don't jump to conclusions (you know who you are), be aware of how it makes you look to be wrong and accuse the staff of banning people without reason.